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Singapore Property Scene Discussion


therock
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26 minutes ago, Mm63 said:

63K rental for 1.8m prop means 3.5% annual yield. That is very rare in today's market.

The numbers are actual. I amortiized my renovation cost of 40k over 4 years. 

The apartment is freehold so the rental yield is lower. The numbers can fluctuate, i am more interested in showing the method . How i evaluate rental yield.

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12 minutes ago, Wind30 said:

The numbers are actual. I amortiized my renovation cost of 40k over 4 years. 

The apartment is freehold so the rental yield is lower. The numbers can fluctuate, i am more interested in showing the method . How i evaluate rental yield.

To achieve this yield, if I'm not wrong, you probably bought at least 7-10 or more years ago?

Rental is also typically high when the unit is new and then decreases with age before flattening out after 5+(?) years. This is something most people miss out in their projections.

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1 minute ago, Mm63 said:

To achieve this yield, if I'm not wrong, you probably bought at least 7-10 or more years ago?

Rental is also typically high when the unit is new and then decreases with age before flattening out after 5+(?) years. This is something most people miss out in their projections.

wind30 just renovate the unit swee swee gilat gilat this year [thumbsup] 

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7 minutes ago, Wt_know said:

wind30 just renovate the unit swee swee gilat gilat this year [thumbsup] 

wah ... jin rich

3m fh landed plus 2m fh condo

who say singapore dream not possible with 50% fts working in our midst?

👍😱

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25 minutes ago, Mm63 said:

To achieve this yield, if I'm not wrong, you probably bought at least 7-10 or more years ago?

Rental is also typically high when the unit is new and then decreases with age before flattening out after 5+(?) years. This is something most people miss out in their projections.

Nope bought a few years ago. The price is stiill stable so if u want you can still buy today. Average rental in around 50k per annum though if u dont do any reno.

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23 minutes ago, Enye said:

wah ... jin rich

3m fh landed plus 2m fh condo

who say singapore dream not possible with 50% fts working in our midst?

👍😱

Honestly, there are much richer people  in mcf but usually they dont share anything except snide remarks. My numbers is just a reference for other people, hopefuully got use for others.

You see this thread 6 pages already... anyone shared anything concrete about what they did? ie how they decided what to buy and when to buy?

Edited by Wind30
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19 minutes ago, Wind30 said:

Honestly, there are much richer people  in mcf but usually they dont share anything except snide remarks. My numbers is just a reference for other people, hopefuully got use for others.

You see this thread 6 pages already... anyone shared anything concrete about what they did? ie how they decided what to buy and when to buy?

i share i share...

i live in hdb flat bought from ah gong 20 years ago...first and only home

peasant storeman cum caretaker job just trying to eke out a living and bring up my kids with my low single income

cannot afford any investment property so can only make snide remarks on mcf

jin sad life... no sg dream

😢

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23 minutes ago, Enye said:

i share i share...

i live in hdb flat bought from ah gong 20 years ago...first and only home

peasant storeman cum caretaker job just trying to eke out a living and bring up my kids with my low single income

cannot afford any investment property so can only make snide remarks on mcf

jin sad life... no sg dream

😢

Boss, you 不打自招?

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2 hours ago, Wind30 said:

That number is meaningless as it just depend on what is the Downpayment.

I look at the downpayment as how much my yield as after getting net income, ignoring mortgage principle payments. 
basically, if my down is 500k for 1.8 million property. I work out my rental income minus expenses and divide that by 500k to calculate my yield. As theoretically those 500k also can deliver yield by putting them in other places.

for that 1.8 mil property, rental is 63k per year. Interest payments at 1%, gives 13k a year. 5.2k for maintenance. 5k for commission and vacant time. 10k a year for renovation and repair. 33k in total. Income is 30k per year. Yield over 500k is 6%. Which is pretty high, much higher than bank interest rates. 
but that numbers can change a lot, especially the 13k interest rate. If it was 3% instead, the income will be just 4K, giving you an yield of 0.8%...
 

 

btw boss... since your maths so good, you could build a proper dcf model to calculate return and npv rather than back of envelope calculations like this

will add to your street cred in mcf

😬😅

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59 minutes ago, Enye said:

btw boss... since your maths so good, you could build a proper dcf model to calculate return and npv rather than back of envelope calculations like this

will add to your street cred in mcf

😬😅

I actually googled dcf and I think my approximation is pretty good, assuming you ignore capital gains and your expected returns are modest. The added complexity of dcf does not really buy me much especially as a layman I can't make accurate predictions many years down the road. My calculations is similar, like dcf for 1 year 🙂

If you look at dcf equation, if the expected rate of return is small, it really does not matter much. 

I think people needs to get the right expectations what a 2nd property buys you...

For me, I don't really expect the property price to go up or down. It is almost impossible to tell what will happen in the future. What I do is just do my due sums to make sure I can get the right return in the near future...

There are also other benefits for investing in property beyond the numbers game as it is tangible. Having said that, I think most people know I am not really a bull in property, and I don't own like multiple properties. It is just a place to park some money and hedge against inflation and low interest rates...

Edited by Wind30
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1 hour ago, Enye said:

btw boss... since your maths so good, you could build a proper dcf model to calculate return and npv rather than back of envelope calculations like this

will add to your street cred in mcf

😬😅

Bro, don't tekan him with DCF and NPV.  He is an Engineer le

🤣

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2 hours ago, Wind30 said:

Nope bought a few years ago. The price is stiill stable so if u want you can still buy today. Average rental in around 50k per annum though if u dont do any reno.

May I know if your unit is 1,2 or 3 -bedder?

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1 minute ago, Mm63 said:

May I know if your unit is 1,2 or 3 -bedder?

I think i post before. 2 bedder near dolby ghaut. I very thick skin, even if it is a bad buy, no worries. Can criticize

I think the returns is actually not very good. if you know how to invest and get like 4% returns, no way you should buy a property I think. I am more like the kind of person who keeps money in the bank.

It is more like a long term investment to put in spare cash. I am not even touching my CPF for this as if you need to use CPF, I am not sure if it will beat the 2.5% OA returns. I have since paid back CPF whatever we took initially a few years ago to buy this new property. 

We thought quite long before commiting to this investment property as there are heavy up front cost involved too because of ABSD. 

Plus owning a condo right at dolby ghaut also has lifesyle benefits if you visit Orchad Road. you live only once and there are far worse things to buy than property

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1 hour ago, Wind30 said:

I think i post before. 2 bedder near dolby ghaut. I very thick skin, even if it is a bad buy, no worries. Can criticize

I think the returns is actually not very good. if you know how to invest and get like 4% returns, no way you should buy a property I think. I am more like the kind of person who keeps money in the bank.

It is more like a long term investment to put in spare cash. I am not even touching my CPF for this as if you need to use CPF, I am not sure if it will beat the 2.5% OA returns. I have since paid back CPF whatever we took initially a few years ago to buy this new property. 

We thought quite long before commiting to this investment property as there are heavy up front cost involved too because of ABSD. 

Plus owning a condo right at dolby ghaut also has lifesyle benefits if you visit Orchad Road. you live only once and there are far worse things to buy than property

Correctly said.  If one knows how to invest in other asset classes, property is one of the worst yields
Property returns seem huge becos they are always on a big leveraged basis and over many years.  You can ride the wave as long as you dont kena chop and cant climb back.

moreover many families are dual income

Base on a leverage basis similar to that of property, from the top of my head, i think i will pull 12-13%pa returns.  I am sole bread winner so must be even more  prudent .  

Edited by Throttle2
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4 hours ago, Wind30 said:

Honestly, there are much richer people  in mcf but usually they dont share anything except snide remarks. My numbers is just a reference for other people, hopefuully got use for others.

You see this thread 6 pages already... anyone shared anything concrete about what they did? ie how they decided what to buy and when to buy?

Share over and over again and again. So what?   Everyone is different , times are different .  It cannot be replicated.  
only youtube seminar sellers tell folks that it can.  Heee

at the end just story telling and forum banter which is what it is

Edited by Throttle2
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6 hours ago, Wind30 said:

That number is meaningless as it just depend on what is the Downpayment.

I look at the downpayment as how much my yield as after getting net income, ignoring mortgage principle payments. 
basically, if my down is 500k for 1.8 million property. I work out my rental income minus expenses and divide that by 500k to calculate my yield. As theoretically those 500k also can deliver yield by putting them in other places.

for that 1.8 mil property, rental is 63k per year. Interest payments at 1%, gives 13k a year. 5.2k for maintenance. 5k for commission and vacant time. 10k a year for renovation and repair. 33k in total. Income is 30k per year. Yield over 500k is 6%. Which is pretty high, much higher than bank interest rates. 
but that numbers can change a lot, especially the 13k interest rate. If it was 3% instead, the income will be just 4K, giving you an yield of 0.8%...
 

 

Leverage yield at 6%pa for a 3x gearing is not that high. 
 

but I do understand the attractiveness given that the underlying is an asset that many are comfortable with and feels “safe” 

 

but it’s the 手尾 of a property investment that irks me. 
the tax, rental, renewable and tenants.... to say a few... 

 

I guess there are definitely value buys around the island and that would be something maybe 5-10 years down the road, for me, but not necessarily to invest but to stay. 
 

i do hope for the chance to have a bigger unit than my current 1200sqf home. 
bobian I like to have a bit more space. 
 

In my wife’s words, I wanna cycle at home... 

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2 hours ago, Wind30 said:

We thought quite long before commiting to this investment property as there are heavy up front cost involved too because of ABSD. 

with BSD + ABSD ... the first 4 years = 0% yield?

total rental collected is paid to ah gong

then next 4 years rental collected average to 8 years probably lesser?

compare to other investment vehicle that does not attract BSD + ABSD

but condo capital appreciation will huat until siao ah [thumbsup] 

Edited by Wt_know
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