BBKs - NASHIN vs RLOGIC vs FORCE vs RAGE

[Mkl22]

5 minutes ago, Watwheels said:

This is one of the reasons why BBKs are not suitable for street use. As the name suggest the bigger rotor disc adds unsprung weight. If you know moment of inertia your acceleration will be slowed, feels sluggish cos the rotor disc spin together with your wheel. You see in the pics. Most will realized the extra weight affected the performance and start looking for light weight rims to reduce the weight. The disc are cast iron and rims are Aluminium or Steel Alloy. How much weight can you save on the rims? So you want that BBK and have to install big rims, big rubber to fit your kit all of which will add much weight as compared to your stock factory wheel.

When ppl accelerate hard to overcome that sluggish feel in our kinda driving/traffic condition, want to brake cannot brake in time. See above pics. It's not that brakes are not good.

Improved braking performance is subjective cos tires play a big part on grip. So if you want good braking effect you will have to spend on tires that grip and grip. Your suspension also plays a part too . LoL...

So if you changed to BBK you car may behave quite differently. Braking like it or not doesnt rely solely on one part. Improving just one part might not change for the better.

many fail to realize that BBK is for heat dissipation. i see puny cars also want BBK. want better bite, the change pads, but of course there will be side effects like squeals, extra dust, higher wear of discs. and those kay khiang and choose racing pads will find out that when they are cold, braking is poor.

stainless hoses are also not needed. just step harder. braking distance is not dependent on brake hose.

agree wholeheartedly you said, most important are the tires.

[Columbian78]

23 minutes ago, Watwheels said:

This is one of the reasons why BBKs are not suitable for street use. As the name suggest the bigger rotor disc adds unsprung weight. If you know moment of inertia your acceleration will be slowed, feels sluggish cos the rotor disc spin together with your wheel. You see in the pics. Most will realized the extra weight affected the performance and start looking for light weight rims to reduce the weight. The disc are cast iron and rims are Aluminium or Steel Alloy. How much weight can you save on the rims? So you want that BBK and have to install big rims, big rubber to fit your kit all of which will add much weight as compared to your stock factory wheel.

When ppl accelerate hard to overcome that sluggish feel in our kinda driving/traffic condition, want to brake cannot brake in time. See above pics. It's not that brakes are not good.

Improved braking performance is subjective cos tires play a big part on grip. So if you want good braking effect you will have to spend on tires that grip and grip. Your suspension also plays a part too . LoL...

So if you changed to BBK you car may behave quite differently. Braking like it or not doesnt rely solely on one part. Improving just one part might not change for the better.

I just want to share my experience to address BBK being heavier than stock, just ref to the main components: rotors, calipers, pads and hose.

My intention of this post is to share so that forumers who place weight savings as critical will be able to look out for this when planning their setup. Basically, if you size it properly, the setup can be lighter in unsprung weight than stock.

I am using aftermarket brake kit (ap racing small 4 pot cp9200, 330mm slotted rotor) for my front. I know in forums BBK usually refer to BIG brake kit. I cannot say mine is bbk cos its a non-agressively sized setup in 17 inch wheels (stock size for my car). Not aggressive or flashy looking. The stock rotor diameter is 296mm vs kit 330mm, so just ~30mm increase.

Now the weight part. I don't know for other brands or types of brake kits, but I did research before and took measurements during the setup of the new kit and old stock. Again, if you buy reputable brands, their is a wealth of engineering info available in their website alone.

Stock vs aftermarket:

Rotor incl hat: 296mm, 1 piece vs 330mm, 2 piece with alu hat

= 7.71kg vs 6.88kg  

Calliper incl pads and lines: Monoblock, cast, rubber hose vs small 4 pot, forged, stainless steel hose

= 6.07kg vs 3.6kg

For artermarket need to add a bracket. I did not measure mine but i looks like it should be well below 1kg.

So for my case stock vs aftermarket for 1 side front brake kit is 13.8kg vs 11.5kg (apple to apple equivalent comparison).

[Watwheels]

18 minutes ago, Columbian78 said:

I just want to share my experience to address BBK being heavier than stock, just ref to the main components: rotors, calipers, pads and hose.

My intention of this post is to share so that forumers who place weight savings as critical will be able to look out for this when planning their setup. Basically, if you size it properly, the setup can be lighter in unsprung weight than stock.

I am using aftermarket brake kit (ap racing small 4 pot cp9200, 330mm slotted rotor) for my front. I know in forums BBK usually refer to BIG brake kit. I cannot say mine is bbk cos its a non-agressively sized setup in 17 inch wheels (stock size for my car). Not aggressive or flashy looking. The stock rotor diameter is 296mm vs kit 330mm, so just ~30mm increase.

Now the weight part. I don't know for other brands or types of brake kits, but I did research before and took measurements during the setup of the new kit and old stock. Again, if you buy reputable brands, their is a wealth of engineering info available in their website alone.

Stock vs aftermarket:

Rotor incl hat: 296mm, 1 piece vs 330mm, 2 piece with alu hat

= 7.71kg vs 6.88kg  

Calliper incl pads and lines: Monoblock, cast, rubber hose vs small 4 pot, forged, stainless steel hose

= 6.07kg vs 3.6kg

For artermarket need to add a bracket. I did not measure mine but i looks like it should be well below 1kg.

So for my case stock vs aftermarket for 1 side front brake kit is 13.8kg vs 11.5kg (apple to apple equivalent comparison).

At least you kept close to the factory size.

Hat? You mean those using two part, rotor disc fitted together with an Aluminium center hub? What brand? Oh, AP racing. Good stuff. This design will help save weight but not cheap, right?

But most who dunno will think bigger means better. 

[Columbian78]

38 minutes ago, Watwheels said:

At least you kept close to the factory size.

Hat? You mean those using two part, rotor disc fitted together with an Aluminium center hub? What brand? Oh, AP racing. Good stuff. This design will help save weight but not cheap, right?

But most who dunno will think bigger means better. 

Yes, hat refers to that pop-out central section that has the bolts and pcd holes to hold the rotor disc and the wheel hub together.

For my package, this hat is third party brandless, not from apr. Only the flat disc rotor is apr. I believe this is common for entry level kit regardless of brands. Stock rotors are typically 1 piece cast iron. Aftermarket 2 piece save some weight using a alu hat in a 2 piece setup. When changing due to worn out, also just change this disc and not the hat. Just to be complete, weight saving of 1 gram near the central of the wheel circumference is not the same as weight saving of 1 gram near the outer circumference, the latter has more positive impact. These are all theory of course. In practice, my car reduced unsprung weight from aftermarket rims (-3kg), coilovers (minor) and brakes (2-3kg) per front wheel. Butt feel, i cannot tell convincingly that it accelerates faster or save fuel. But the braking is night and day diff.

 

Edited December 21, 2020 by Columbian78

[Kar_lover]

On 12/21/2020 at 2:08 PM, Columbian78 said:

I just want to share my experience to address BBK being heavier than stock, just ref to the main components: rotors, calipers, pads and hose.

My intention of this post is to share so that forumers who place weight savings as critical will be able to look out for this when planning their setup. Basically, if you size it properly, the setup can be lighter in unsprung weight than stock.

I am using aftermarket brake kit (ap racing small 4 pot cp9200, 330mm slotted rotor) for my front. I know in forums BBK usually refer to BIG brake kit. I cannot say mine is bbk cos its a non-agressively sized setup in 17 inch wheels (stock size for my car). Not aggressive or flashy looking. The stock rotor diameter is 296mm vs kit 330mm, so just ~30mm increase.

Now the weight part. I don't know for other brands or types of brake kits, but I did research before and took measurements during the setup of the new kit and old stock. Again, if you buy reputable brands, their is a wealth of engineering info available in their website alone.

Stock vs aftermarket:

Rotor incl hat: 296mm, 1 piece vs 330mm, 2 piece with alu hat

= 7.71kg vs 6.88kg  

Calliper incl pads and lines: Monoblock, cast, rubber hose vs small 4 pot, forged, stainless steel hose

= 6.07kg vs 3.6kg

For artermarket need to add a bracket. I did not measure mine but i looks like it should be well below 1kg.

So for my case stock vs aftermarket for 1 side front brake kit is 13.8kg vs 11.5kg (apple to apple equivalent comparison).

Some BBK brands advertise showing their BBK lighter than stock. I think Force is one of them cos their caliper is forged.

[Kar_lover]

23 hours ago, Watwheels said:

At least you kept close to the factory size.

Hat? You mean those using two part, rotor disc fitted together with an Aluminium center hub? What brand? Oh, AP racing. Good stuff. This design will help save weight but not cheap, right?

But most who dunno will think bigger means better. 

Hat and bell is the same? Or bell is different thing?

[Kar_lover]

On 12/18/2020 at 3:26 PM, kobayashiGT said:

Here's my take.

You must make sure the rotor is a common size. Mid-size car all choose 4 pot 330mm. if you are on a bigger ride, then 6pot 355mm.

There are brands out there come out with their own size like 320mm and all when you wanna change the rotor, you have no flexibility but to go back to the same brand.

Other than that, if you are not on the very harsh driving environment, like track use and all, daily usage, all the brands that you have mentioned are all okay one. They are all from Taiwan IIRC.

And the lao da in Taiwan for brakes is D1 Specs. They also white label their brakes to other small brands.

One key thing about D1 Specs is their S-RS series do have some resemblance of the brembo GT series. Which will cost you maybe a leg also. So for those who want to hiao, never really drive like a mad man and still looking out for good braking performance, then I will recommend D1Spec. They in the market damn long le. So is a

 

 

Thanks, well noted. Actually i tot the rotor must continue to buy from the same brand, i.e. Nashin BBK must buy Nashin rotors. Didn't know D1Spec is big brother. 

[Beregond]

On 12/21/2020 at 1:11 PM, Watwheels said:

This is one of the reasons why BBKs are not suitable for street use. As the name suggest the bigger rotor disc adds unsprung weight. If

how to say this leh.

its like telling your wife and gf they dun need a prada bag.

a plastic bag or any paper bag will also hold all the stuff nicely 🤣

[kobayashiGT]

1 hour ago, Kar_lover said:

Thanks, well noted. Actually i tot the rotor must continue to buy from the same brand, i.e. Nashin BBK must buy Nashin rotors. Didn't know D1Spec is big brother. 

Yeah, no need to stick with the same brand for the rotor and brand pads, those are perishable items, so choose a brand that has choices..

 

[Beregond]

 

1 hour ago, Kar_lover said:

Thanks, well noted. Actually i tot the rotor must continue to buy from the same brand, i.e. Nashin BBK must buy Nashin rotors. Didn't know D1Spec is big brother. 

its ok to mix in fact its most car using oem brake pad, its mix already . but i highly recommend to use same brand if can esp  if u are changing rotor and brake pad together.

 

[aranor]

please dont change those taiwan brakes....so many 18z 19z available in the market why want to go for taiwan bbk?

if no budget then dont change and stay stock, if really want better braking then please change rotors, brake pads and tyres...

in many instances i see ppl with comfort tyres, petrol saving tyres with big rotors and bbk, what for?

[Kar_lover]

On 12/21/2020 at 1:11 PM, Watwheels said:

This is one of the reasons why BBKs are not suitable for street use. As the name suggest the bigger rotor disc adds unsprung weight. If you know moment of inertia your acceleration will be slowed, feels sluggish cos the rotor disc spin together with your wheel. You see in the pics. Most will realized the extra weight affected the performance and start looking for light weight rims to reduce the weight. The disc are cast iron and rims are Aluminium or Steel Alloy. How much weight can you save on the rims? So you want that BBK and have to install big rims, big rubber to fit your kit all of which will add much weight as compared to your stock factory wheel.

 

Yaes agree. Whenever i buy new car, first thing i do is change tyres. Currently on GY Asymm 5 up from Asymm 3 previously.

[Kar_lover]

18 hours ago, aranor said:

please dont change those taiwan brakes....so many 18z 19z available in the market why want to go for taiwan bbk?

if no budget then dont change and stay stock, if really want better braking then please change rotors, brake pads and tyres...

in many instances i see ppl with comfort tyres, petrol saving tyres with big rotors and bbk, what for?

Thanks, there are also people who say this kind of safety things, don't risk buying those refurbished ones, u don't know the true condition although outside looks nice, can't be sure whats happening inside.... but yes i am considering and already spoke to 2 shops/suppliers.

[Beregond]

23 minutes ago, Kar_lover said:

Thanks, there are also people who say this kind of safety things, don't risk buying those refurbished ones, u don't know the true condition although outside looks nice, can't be sure whats happening inside.... but yes i am considering and already spoke to 2 shops/suppliers.

Aiya can only say your money your car.

U spend already  u happy  most important 🤣

I spend 5digit  on mobile games. Some friends say i crazy. But i happy leh . Bring your money to grave meh?

Song jiu ho.

[Kar_lover]

50 minutes ago, Beregond said:

Aiya can only say your money your car.

U spend already  u happy  most important 🤣

I spend 5digit  on mobile games. Some friends say i crazy. But i happy leh . Bring your money to grave meh?

Song jiu ho.

Wa...i spend 4 figure I thought is bad already!!

[Jumpmanz]

On 12/21/2020 at 2:08 PM, Columbian78 said:

I just want to share my experience to address BBK being heavier than stock, just ref to the main components: rotors, calipers, pads and hose.

My intention of this post is to share so that forumers who place weight savings as critical will be able to look out for this when planning their setup. Basically, if you size it properly, the setup can be lighter in unsprung weight than stock.

I am using aftermarket brake kit (ap racing small 4 pot cp9200, 330mm slotted rotor) for my front. I know in forums BBK usually refer to BIG brake kit. I cannot say mine is bbk cos its a non-agressively sized setup in 17 inch wheels (stock size for my car). Not aggressive or flashy looking. The stock rotor diameter is 296mm vs kit 330mm, so just ~30mm increase.

Now the weight part. I don't know for other brands or types of brake kits, but I did research before and took measurements during the setup of the new kit and old stock. Again, if you buy reputable brands, their is a wealth of engineering info available in their website alone.

Stock vs aftermarket:

Rotor incl hat: 296mm, 1 piece vs 330mm, 2 piece with alu hat

= 7.71kg vs 6.88kg  

Calliper incl pads and lines: Monoblock, cast, rubber hose vs small 4 pot, forged, stainless steel hose

= 6.07kg vs 3.6kg

For artermarket need to add a bracket. I did not measure mine but i looks like it should be well below 1kg.

So for my case stock vs aftermarket for 1 side front brake kit is 13.8kg vs 11.5kg (apple to apple equivalent comparison).

Very nice analysis bro.
Can share where you got ur AP9200 330mm? I am also looking at this setup vs rage.
learning more insights here.

[Columbian78]

17 hours ago, Jumpmanz said:

Very nice analysis bro.
Can share where you got ur AP9200 330mm? I am also looking at this setup vs rage.
learning more insights here.

I did mine at the brake shop (name of the shop, can find in facebk)

Edited January 4, 2021 by Columbian78

[Stratovarius]

I agree on avoiding tw/hk/china and refurb brakes. Go for more reputable brands if possible since brake calipers and rotors are probably the most impt component of a vehicle. I had tw coilovers failing suddenly and the experience is not pleasant. I would rather spend my money on a good pair of front calipers only than a full set of tw brakes with the same amount of money.

Like many mentioned, changing the pads and ssbh is suffice to improve braking. Bbk is only there to improve cooling and to most road users, looks. Nonetheless, reliability and quality of the calipers should not be compromised.