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Singapore Police Force can obtain TraceTogether data for criminal investigations: Desmond Tan


kobayashiGT
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Shameful. Even BBC pick up this piece of news. I did mentioned "TRUST".

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-55541001

"Singapore has admitted data from its Covid contact tracing programme can also be accessed by police, reversing earlier privacy assurances.

Officials had previously explicitly ruled out the data would be used for anything other than the virus tracking.

But parliament was told on Monday it could also be used "for the purpose of criminal investigation".

Close to 80% of residents are signed up to the TraceTogether programme, which is used to check in to locations.

The voluntary take up increased after it was announced it would soon be needed to access anything from the supermarket to your place of work...

Eroding public trust?

"I think why most people are so angry about this is not that they feel like they're constantly being watched," one Singaporean, who did not want to be named, told the BBC. "We already have that through other means like CCTV.

 

"It's more that they feel like they've been cheated. The government had assured us many times that TraceTogether would only be used for contact tracing, but now they've suddenly added this new caveat."

 

Another person told the BBC they wished they could delete the app, but daily life would be impossible without it.

 

"So I'm just going to disable my Bluetooth for TraceTogether from now on, unless I have to use it to enter somewhere. If the app is not only going to be used for contact tracing, then it's too much of an invasion of privacy."

 

Australian privacy watchdog Digital Rights Watch, told the BBC they were "extremely concerned" about the news from Singapore.

 

"This is the worst case scenario that privacy advocates have warned about since the start of the pandemic," Programme Director Lucie Krahulcova told the BBC. "Such an approach will erode public trust in future health responses and therefore impede their efficacy."

 

Like most countries, Australia has rolled out its own contact tracing app but uptake has been sluggish precisely because of privacy concerns."

Edited by Kopites
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This sums up.. 

We are not as if a very important person or well known person like celebrities, billionaires, ministers and etc. If they don't care why should we? Like as if police have better nothing to do but to go to get TraceTogether token and randomly say I want check on this person details because this person committed crime where in fact that person did not. Police are super busy, they have no time for all these nonsense. The truth is no one cares, maybe friends, families and people whom we knows cares, or maybe worst come to worst is perhaps like wife think that husband is cheating and hire PI to investigate on husband. In that case, how will PI able to get TraceTogether token information. Even if PI somehow managed to get the token information, how would PI ever make sense out of that information? Its is impossible for PI to do that. PI have other means then just this stupid TraceTogether token. So like that we don't call it invade privacy when PI spy on people? Common. 

 

Sometimes common sense vs emotional.. When emotional thinking overwhelm logical thinking.. That's what happen. People get emotional and then cannot think properly. 

 

Edited by Yewheng
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9 hours ago, Kyrios said:

I think this christofu de souza will kena hentak kaki liao lah..

 

No teamwork, when christofu ask sham whether data will be deleted at the end of investigation, sham was abit shocked and asked come again. Sham was already struggling to put his thoughts to answer pritam Singh question. As a party, if they continue to do like what christofu is doing aka ask further question to probe more details or actions if the person is already struggling to put his thoughts into words, it will only make things more difficult and might sabo their own party. 

 

Although the question is good question, perhaps these questions could be led by opposition party not own party. If own party, can just WhatsApp sham and ask internally and this will give sham more time to process his thoughts and also time to seek information. If he have lots of time on hand to do all these, he could better craft out the answer and give more accurate reply. There is nothing wrong if say sham would to add on his comment after the parliment session though Facebook and or news media right? 

 

Something that come to my mind. It's like doing group presentation on school project, opponent asked a difficult question and he just barely managed to answer that difficult question, then the own group mate come out and ask another question which is also a little bit difficult. The people who is answering the questions will be like "hey why don't you ask me internally? I already struggling and you no help but add fuel to fire, I very stressed you know“ this type of thing mightbe in that person mind. Teamwork is very important, if there is no teamwork, then there is higher chance of failure. 

Edited by Yewheng
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7 hours ago, ToyotaShuttle said:

If you can be found to be in close proxmity to Jolovan for 20 mins during his "one man protest", maybe his protest is no longer a one man thing.

What if u were the audience like a reporter? Still need more evidence than that to charge

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2 hours ago, Yewheng said:

This sums up.. 

We are not as if a very important person or well known person like celebrities, billionaires, ministers and etc. If they don't care why should we? Like as if police have better nothing to do but to go to get TraceTogether token and randomly say I want check on this person details because this person committed crime where in fact that person did not. Police are super busy, they have no time for all these nonsense. The truth is no one cares, maybe friends, families and people whom we knows cares, or maybe worst come to worst is perhaps like wife think that husband is cheating and hire PI to investigate on husband. In that case, how will PI able to get TraceTogether token information. Even if PI somehow managed to get the token information, how would PI ever make sense out of that information? Its is impossible for PI to do that. PI have other means then just this stupid TraceTogether token. So like that we don't call it invade privacy when PI spy on people? Common. 

 

Sometimes common sense vs emotional.. When emotional thinking overwhelm logical thinking.. That's what happen. People get emotional and then cannot think properly. 

 

This point to me is invalid.

Yes, others won't care of my whereabout as I am too small a flies not like celebrities/wealthy personnel.

But that doesn't mean I must give up my personal privacy rights.

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Police will restrict use of TraceTogether data to very serious offences

Quote

Yesterday, Minister-in-charge of the Smart Nation Initiative Vivian Balakrishnan also revealed to the House that data meant for contact tracing had been used once in a murder investigation.

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/police-will-restrict-use-of-tracetogether-data-to-very-serious-offences

they need to define what are "very serious offences". 

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12 minutes ago, Kopites said:

This point to me is invalid.

Yes, others won't care of my whereabout as I am too small a flies not like celebrities/wealthy personnel.

But that doesn't mean I must give up my personal privacy rights.

This sums things up... If a lot of people are like this.. Our country will slowly go in downward sprial.. Look at america, look at Europe. Its like time traveller, what happened to America like the George floyd case, the black life's matter and etc.. Its a reflection on what we are going to that path.. and shape to that kind of future. 

Edited by Yewheng
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5 minutes ago, Yewheng said:

This sums things up... If a lot of people are like this.. Our country will slowly go in downward sprial.. Look at america, look at Europe. Its like time traveller, what happened to America like the George floyd case, the black life's matter and etc.. Its a reflection on what we are going to that path.. and shape to that kind of future. 

We have different values.

 

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8 minutes ago, Kopites said:

We have different values.

 

Yup. Just pointing out what might happen and the consequences. 

 

There are always pros and cons to each side of the coin. Swing too much to either side is no good. So there will always need to have balance. 

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Turbocharged
42 minutes ago, Yewheng said:

This sums things up... If a lot of people are like you.. Our country will slowly go in downward sprial.. Look at america, look at Europe. Its like time traveller, what happened to America like the George floyd case, the black life's matter and etc.. Its a reflection on what we are doing right now that shape to that kind of future. 

Lol...haha my friend..then I think Norf Korea will suit you just nice....

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Turbocharged

Wah, vivian admission must've caused earthquake down the ranks... minister scold minister of state -> perm sec ->secretary -> director -> asst director-> manager-> engineer-> intern : WHY NEVER THINK OF CPC?!?!

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7 minutes ago, Karoon said:

Wah, vivian admission must've caused earthquake down the ranks... minister scold minister of state -> perm sec ->secretary -> director -> asst director-> manager-> engineer-> intern : WHY NEVER THINK OF CPC?!?!

Actually, why nvr check with AGC?

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Turbocharged
4 hours ago, Yewheng said:

This sums up.. 

We are not as if a very important person or well known person like celebrities, billionaires, ministers and etc. If they don't care why should we? Like as if police have better nothing to do but to go to get TraceTogether token and randomly say I want check on this person details because this person committed crime where in fact that person did not. Police are super busy, they have no time for all these nonsense. The truth is no one cares, maybe friends, families and people whom we knows cares, or maybe worst come to worst is perhaps like wife think that husband is cheating and hire PI to investigate on husband. In that case, how will PI able to get TraceTogether token information. Even if PI somehow managed to get the token information, how would PI ever make sense out of that information? Its is impossible for PI to do that. PI have other means then just this stupid TraceTogether token. So like that we don't call it invade privacy when PI spy on people? Common. 

 

Sometimes common sense vs emotional.. When emotional thinking overwhelm logical thinking.. That's what happen. People get emotional and then cannot think properly. 

 

Have you ever kanna fine because hdb cctv within car park caught u parking at undesignated space for 10 mins? I have. True these cameras and tracking devices have 0 interest in your personal life (maybe they do... which rallies u go to at election), but will provide easier means to nail you and get to your wallet. Why make it easy? And no upside to you. 

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5 minutes ago, Karoon said:

Have you ever kanna fine because hdb cctv within car park caught u parking at undesignated space for 10 mins? I have. True these cameras and tracking devices have 0 interest in your personal life (maybe they do... which rallies u go to at election), but will provide easier means to nail you and get to your wallet. Why make it easy? And no upside to you. 

Yup, that's where as long as we don't commit crime.. In this case for you is as simple as parking offence. Nothing would had happened. Authorities don't care about what you do when you park there illigally. They just want to catch drivers who illigal park. So does it make sense to you now? 

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4 hours ago, Yewheng said:

This sums up.. 

We are not as if a very important person or well known person like celebrities, billionaires, ministers and etc. If they don't care why should we? Like as if police have better nothing to do but to go to get TraceTogether token and randomly say I want check on this person details because this person committed crime where in fact that person did not. 

 

My two cents.

You might not be important today but you might be tomorrow to someone.  For example, no one wants to track you today..  but who knows someone might want to track you tomorrow.

If they can prata on this, what else can they prata? For example.  Maybe the latest version of the token has gps function/ can transmit data as well.  They just forgot to tell us and since no one asked in parliament....

It's the trust that is being eroded.  

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4 hours ago, Yewheng said:

This sums up.. 

We are not as if a very important person or well known person like celebrities, billionaires, ministers and etc. If they don't care why should we? Like as if police have better nothing to do but to go to get TraceTogether token and randomly say I want check on this person details because this person committed crime where in fact that person did not. Police are super busy, they have no time for all these nonsense. The truth is no one cares, maybe friends, families and people whom we knows cares, or maybe worst come to worst is perhaps like wife think that husband is cheating and hire PI to investigate on husband. In that case, how will PI able to get TraceTogether token information. Even if PI somehow managed to get the token information, how would PI ever make sense out of that information? Its is impossible for PI to do that. PI have other means then just this stupid TraceTogether token. So like that we don't call it invade privacy when PI spy on people? Common. 

 

Sometimes common sense vs emotional.. When emotional thinking overwhelm logical thinking.. That's what happen. People get emotional and then cannot think properly. 

 

This polish amdk is a moron. He never see how bad govts use data/surveillance? He think Sg immune to bad gahmen taking over?

As soon as u start believing it can never happen here that is when it will happen

Big biz data is very tightly regulated in Sg and requires consumer consent. Gahmen otoh can do whatever they please with data and dont require any of our consent. One is 99% watertight regulation. The other one is basically 0%

Edited by yishunite
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16 minutes ago, Yewheng said:

Yup, that's where as long as we don't commit crime.. In this case for you is as simple as parking offence. Nothing would had happened. Authorities don't care about what you do when you park there illigally. They just want to catch drivers who illigal park. So does it make sense to you now? 

What is illegal?  Tomorrow you are tracked attending an opposition rally, talking to an opposition member....

Or you were in close proximity to a criminal. You don't know him but you happened to be sitting next to him at a bus stop and get hauled up for investigation.   While your innocence is there and police let's you off, your co workers and friends think no smoke without fire.  Of cos this is assuming that you are called up solely based on TT token/app and nothing else.

Of cos then the next question which is more interesting would be tourists.  Would not make sense if they were exempted from the token.  But what if they happened to be near the scene of a crime (could be in the next hotel room where they did not witness anything but the TT token placed them in close proximity). Would they be summoned as witnesses?  Or if they witnessed a crime (vandalism) and they were admiring it cos it's legal and art in their country.  Will they be called back to be witnesses?

So yes, it opens a pandora box.  And the issue is not police investigation per se.  If this had been told up front, I think we are still ok.  But now you announce this.  And it is still unknown what else you have not announced.

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