Mkl22 Twincharged July 4, 2022 Share July 4, 2022 3 hours ago, SLing said: The question is whether it is better to sell high & buy high or sell low & buy low. The purpose of getting new car is to save on servicing and petrol / fc, warranty. My friends advised me that it is better not to buy high no matter what because the depreciation is higher. But selling the old car at a high price also saves money because the trade-in value is higher. The scrap values below = paper value Old Car Price 2018 : 71000 Scrap Value before 8th year : -16451 New Car Price 2025 : 110000 (likely average Cat A price in 2025?) Top Up in 2025 (after trade-in) :93500 Scrap Value New Car 2033 :-13410 (Calculated based on Cat A COE in 2025 of $50K - too high / low?) Total Cost (93.5K+71K - scrap) :151090 Total Number of Years 2018 - 2033 : 16 Depreciation per year : 9443 But what about sell high and buy high in 2022 based on Cat A COE of $75K? Old Car Price 2018 :71000 New Car Price 2022 :62000 Scrap Value 2030 (after 8 years) :-20410 Total Cost :112590 Total Number of Years 2018 - 2030 :12 Depreciation per year :9383 So no real difference between sell high / buy high and sell low / buy low? In previous posts, I notice that people say that if the car has a high COE it is better to scrap early. So what if the new car is scrapped just before 5th birthday before warranty etc expires? Old Car Price 2018 :71000 New Car Price 2022 :62000 Scrap in 2028 :-42910 Total Cost :90090 Total Number of Years 2018 - 2028 :10 Depreciation per year :9009 So it is cheapest to buy low / sell high / scrap early? Or does that apply on a case-to-case basis? What can go wrong with these calculations? COE doesn’t drop, COE drops a lot, new car price doesn’t drop, scrap value, ARF rebates changes? Is it accurate to estimate a Cat A COE of $50K in 2025. What will the effect 2% increase in GST be on cars? going by your logic of 9k a year till 2028, if you drive on the current car wont the depreciation be less? 71-(2.5k assuming min PARF) which is 6.9k/yr. dont tell me the difference in petrol and roadtax will be more than 2k a year? ↡ Advertisement 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mkl22 Twincharged July 4, 2022 Share July 4, 2022 2 hours ago, Volvobrick said: You didn't take into consideration how the returns from the spare cash (62K) you save by not changing car. Maybe it will double to 114K and you get a brand new car for that 62K! he deposit 62k with LTA to get back 42K after 5years in 2028.😁 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vratenza Supersonic July 4, 2022 Share July 4, 2022 18 minutes ago, Ingenius said: Recently I buy high and sell high also. I worked out the sum, new car depreciation at current coe level, is surely much higher than your current car, even if you sell high. The extra sale proceed from selling your car at a 'high' price, will not come close to the new car price, given the crazy coe price today. But i thought how many years can i wait for coe to come down before i can enjoy a new car ? so i just go ahead without thinking too much. sometimes is not the money, but the justification that we need to overcome. Whether coe fall or rise from now, i dont care and wont be bothered, just enjoy the ride. Exactly. If I am to sell my 1.5yr car now, I will probable will turn a profit. With the rationality of renewed warranty and shiok factor, those in the camp of sell high buy high will probably jump at the chance since the supposedly higher cost will be "offset" by my estimated 20K profit? Assuming my COE was 50K....and now is at 100K, my depreciation effectively doubled if I am to trade-in and buy that new ride (assuming equivalent model). To put in in perspective.....that is throwing additional 5K/yr at LTA.... 6 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carbon82 Moderator July 4, 2022 Share July 4, 2022 3 hours ago, SLing said: The question is whether it is better to sell high & buy high or sell low & buy low. The purpose of getting new car is to save on servicing and petrol / fc, warranty. My friends advised me that it is better not to buy high no matter what because the depreciation is higher. But selling the old car at a high price also saves money because the trade-in value is higher. The scrap values below = paper value Old Car Price 2018 : 71000 Scrap Value before 8th year : -16451 New Car Price 2025 : 110000 (likely average Cat A price in 2025?) Top Up in 2025 (after trade-in) :93500 Scrap Value New Car 2033 :-13410 (Calculated based on Cat A COE in 2025 of $50K - too high / low?) Total Cost (93.5K+71K - scrap) :151090 Total Number of Years 2018 - 2033 : 16 Depreciation per year : 9443 But what about sell high and buy high in 2022 based on Cat A COE of $75K? Old Car Price 2018 :71000 New Car Price 2022 :62000 Scrap Value 2030 (after 8 years) :-20410 Total Cost :112590 Total Number of Years 2018 - 2030 :12 Depreciation per year :9383 So no real difference between sell high / buy high and sell low / buy low? In previous posts, I notice that people say that if the car has a high COE it is better to scrap early. So what if the new car is scrapped just before 5th birthday before warranty etc expires? Old Car Price 2018 :71000 New Car Price 2022 :62000 Scrap in 2028 :-42910 Total Cost :90090 Total Number of Years 2018 - 2028 :10 Depreciation per year :9009 So it is cheapest to buy low / sell high / scrap early? Or does that apply on a case-to-case basis? What can go wrong with these calculations? COE doesn’t drop, COE drops a lot, new car price doesn’t drop, scrap value, ARF rebates changes? Is it accurate to estimate a Cat A COE of $50K in 2025. What will the effect 2% increase in GST be on cars? Well, I wouldn't say your calculation is wrong, from cash outlay and scrap value perspective, but I think you have to check again on the number of years of usage, PARF value at the different year (e.g. 2018 to 2025 is 7 years instead of 8, PARF value if scrapping in 2028 will be 70% of ARF instead of 75% before 5th year). And the above is valid only if you do NOT take any loan, else you will have to factor in the interest as well (full amount, forget about early redemption as you will likely get back peanuts for the early redemption rebate). Last, if you drive your current ride all the way till EOL, the annual depreciation will be much lower, and by then COE maybe also lower than $50K (lower cost for new car, yet even better fuel efficiency with the latest technology)? I know the itch is there, but your simple calculation above do not really justify getting a new car now. 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesc Hypersonic July 4, 2022 Share July 4, 2022 I have read this thread and people are saying buy high sell high good and buy low sell low good. What a nice thread everything people did is good and everyone is happy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLing 1st Gear July 4, 2022 Share July 4, 2022 (edited) Thanks very much, everyone, for the useful thoughts. I was tempted because I lose very little by trading my old car in now. Felt like I won the lottery. I am considering downgrading to a smaller & more economical car to save money, not because I like the new car. My old car is nicer than the new one, but the daily running cost of the new one is less. Also, if I change now, the cash outlay is less than when my old car gets to 8 years old when the trade in value is lower. It is painful to have to part with at least $90K at that time. Inspite of all that, like you all said, after doing the Math, it doesn't seem to save me much money to downgrade inspite of the high trade-in value. I think the high COE price takes away everything. So difficult to calculate because impossible to predict COE price, trade-in price and price of the next car. The GST is increasing 1% next year and another 1% the year after. Will car prices increase by a few thousands because of this? Or are you all expecting the increase in price to trigger a drop in demand? PS: there is an error in my 1st set of calculations. Correcting that seems to show that sell low and buy low makes sense if the next car price is low enough Edited July 4, 2022 by SLing 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smwb108 4th Gear July 4, 2022 Share July 4, 2022 Ok. Way i figure is if the money is there and the willingness to spend it, go for it. Downgrading means losing the advantages of older but nicer car, for example A 2018 Camry/ E200 for a 2022 Altis, the Camry/E200 would be better drive/comfort over the new altis. Selling a superior vehicle to get a new lower class vehicle? mlmlwml Penny pinching is asking for headaches in the car market here. Then again, we have to do what we have to do. My family member is looking to get a car. I waved it off saying the new cars are atrociously expensive and the used market is scalping --- same year model make higher mileage /> costs more than same new car. If really have to buy, get a new car with the caveat do you really want to spend more for the COE? On top of surging all around costs? Family member can afford a new E200 easy even with high coe. Now look look see see but wont buy. Money hard to earn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sHy3r 4th Gear September 18, 2022 Author Share September 18, 2022 I am back… 😅 still stuck with current car since thread start in 2021. now my car left 11months… mileage below 140,000km… Tempted to change Honda Vezel Hybrid 2021 model and New Niro Hybrid.. but COE $113k and $86k now respectively… shud I wait till my current car end of COE then change or change now… Today I visited 1 dealer and the new Vezel hybrid was given significant difference in pricing as most dealers… Im worry COE will continue to climb and GST increase by 1%… dilemma.. 😅 My current car is working fine.. no issue at all.. Renewing coe not an option cos COE very high… what should I do? 🤔 any advice? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mersaylee Supersonic September 18, 2022 Share September 18, 2022 2 hours ago, sHy3r said: I am back… 😅 still stuck with current car since thread start in 2021. now my car left 11months… mileage below 140,000km… Tempted to change Honda Vezel Hybrid 2021 model and New Niro Hybrid.. but COE $113k and $86k now respectively… shud I wait till my current car end of COE then change or change now… Today I visited 1 dealer and the new Vezel hybrid was given significant difference in pricing as most dealers… Im worry COE will continue to climb and GST increase by 1%… dilemma.. 😅 My current car is working fine.. no issue at all.. Renewing coe not an option cos COE very high… what should I do? 🤔 any advice? I'll keep it...11 months is not a distant future...unless there is a sudden major issue with the current ride... 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mkl22 Twincharged September 18, 2022 Share September 18, 2022 1 hour ago, mersaylee said: I'll keep it...11 months is not a distant future...unless there is a sudden major issue with the current ride... Seconded. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volvobrick Supersonic September 19, 2022 Share September 19, 2022 5 hours ago, sHy3r said: I am back… 😅 still stuck with current car since thread start in 2021. now my car left 11months… mileage below 140,000km… Tempted to change Honda Vezel Hybrid 2021 model and New Niro Hybrid.. but COE $113k and $86k now respectively… shud I wait till my current car end of COE then change or change now… Today I visited 1 dealer and the new Vezel hybrid was given significant difference in pricing as most dealers… Im worry COE will continue to climb and GST increase by 1%… dilemma.. 😅 My current car is working fine.. no issue at all.. Renewing coe not an option cos COE very high… what should I do? 🤔 any advice? Interest rates are increasing very rapidly. So that may price out marginal buyers and reduce the demand and thus COE premium. I would wait and see. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ct3833 Supersonic September 19, 2022 Share September 19, 2022 11 minutes ago, Volvobrick said: Interest rates are increasing very rapidly. So that may price out marginal buyers and reduce the demand and thus COE premium. I would wait and see. with the limited amount of COE quota currently, i think high interest rate has lesser impact, after all those who could afford or willing to buy cars now are generally having deeper pockets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ct3833 Supersonic September 19, 2022 Share September 19, 2022 6 hours ago, sHy3r said: I am back… 😅 still stuck with current car since thread start in 2021. now my car left 11months… mileage below 140,000km… Tempted to change Honda Vezel Hybrid 2021 model and New Niro Hybrid.. but COE $113k and $86k now respectively… shud I wait till my current car end of COE then change or change now… Today I visited 1 dealer and the new Vezel hybrid was given significant difference in pricing as most dealers… Im worry COE will continue to climb and GST increase by 1%… dilemma.. 😅 My current car is working fine.. no issue at all.. Renewing coe not an option cos COE very high… what should I do? 🤔 any advice? you should continue driving your car till scrap , any refresh now would cost you more money than you are wrtiting off from your existing car now. If you are considering money saving, you should instead think of what to do in 11 month's time. Frankly, even when you change to another new car in 11 months time, you will very likely be caught in the high COE cycle, the question is how to break away from that cycle. I am not suggesting you to do that but one way is to buy a 7 to 8 year old car next year, and by the time you scrap that car, it should be 2025 to 2026, COE hopefully could be lower by then so that you could get yourself a lower COE car. But it is up to anybody's guess the future, so if you could afford, YOLO after all, just buy when you feel like buying. 😃 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beehive3783 Turbocharged September 19, 2022 Share September 19, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, sHy3r said: I am back… 😅 still stuck with current car since thread start in 2021. now my car left 11months… mileage below 140,000km… Tempted to change Honda Vezel Hybrid 2021 model and New Niro Hybrid.. but COE $113k and $86k now respectively… shud I wait till my current car end of COE then change or change now… Today I visited 1 dealer and the new Vezel hybrid was given significant difference in pricing as most dealers… Im worry COE will continue to climb and GST increase by 1%… dilemma.. 😅 My current car is working fine.. no issue at all.. Renewing coe not an option cos COE very high… what should I do? 🤔 any advice? Renewing COE will still be cheaper than buying a new car, provided no major mechanical problems that require an overhaul. Why give govt extra money for nothing, unless you are PAP supporter? And if you wanna renew COE, go for 10 years renewal, not 5 years. Your depre will be super high if you renew 5 years, and you have to scrap after the 5 years is up, no further renewal allowed. Edited September 19, 2022 by Beehive3783 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sHy3r 4th Gear September 19, 2022 Author Share September 19, 2022 4 hours ago, mersaylee said: I'll keep it...11 months is not a distant future...unless there is a sudden major issue with the current ride... Hmm ya but im afraid of the next car price (increase coe) n increase of gst… dealers say coe wont drop until after 2025… 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sHy3r 4th Gear September 19, 2022 Author Share September 19, 2022 1 hour ago, Volvobrick said: Interest rates are increasing very rapidly. So that may price out marginal buyers and reduce the demand and thus COE premium. I would wait and see. Ya, some dealers offer good interests rates.. eg: Car Times have 1.99% for 7 years loan.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sHy3r 4th Gear September 19, 2022 Author Share September 19, 2022 52 minutes ago, Ct3833 said: you should continue driving your car till scrap , any refresh now would cost you more money than you are wrtiting off from your existing car now. If you are considering money saving, you should instead think of what to do in 11 month's time. Frankly, even when you change to another new car in 11 months time, you will very likely be caught in the high COE cycle, the question is how to break away from that cycle. I am not suggesting you to do that but one way is to buy a 7 to 8 year old car next year, and by the time you scrap that car, it should be 2025 to 2026, COE hopefully could be lower by then so that you could get yourself a lower COE car. But it is up to anybody's guess the future, so if you could afford, YOLO after all, just buy when you feel like buying. 😃 Hmm.. thank you for the advice. will there be a “good” car of 7-8 years old? I very scare of used cars that dealers tune milege, need big ticket repairs after warranty period.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sHy3r 4th Gear September 19, 2022 Author Share September 19, 2022 49 minutes ago, Beehive3783 said: Renewing COE will still be cheaper than buying a new car, provided no major mechanical problems that require an overhaul. Why give govt extra money for nothing, unless you are PAP supporter? And if you wanna renew COE, go for 10 years renewal, not 5 years. Your depre will be super high if you renew 5 years, and you have to scrap after the 5 years is up, no further renewal allowed. Erm renew coe at $110k? 🥶 If I dont renew my coe at $110k.. top up abit can buy brand new Vezel petrol at $140k… ↡ Advertisement 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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