S’pore to stop diesel car, taxi registrations, have 8 ‘EV-ready towns’ including Bedok, Punggol, Queenstown by 2025

[Comage]

15 hours ago, boonhat_91 said:

Just for discussion and enlightenment. Shouldn't the substations and grid infra be upgraded first? Isn't it wasteful to "focus on building slow chargers" only to replace them in the near future with fast chargers? 

Is fast charger hardware backward-compatible with slow charging? Like how USB 3.0 is backward-compatible with USB 2.0. 

Singapore govt agencies somehow keep preferring this "build and tear-down approach" for projects.

It somehow keeps the money rolling in for whoever they engage in their building projects. 

[Comage]

15 hours ago, Mustank said:

Ask you all ah

electricity car take how long to charge finish ah

Ignore whatever idiot tells you "oh less than 1 hour for a quick charge". 

The slow chargers that the govt is planning to build now, is going to take 6-8 hours (maybe even more) to do a full charge. 

That is the hard truth. 

[Stratovarius]

10 minutes ago, Comage said:

Not exactly true... If people can't or refuse to adapt, then that's where all the "out of the box" thinking comes along and you see shenanigans coming from people, e.g:

- Unplugging charger to stop their cars from being charged excessive costs

- Hogging/fighting over charging points

- Unplugging charging cables from other vehicle's as deliberate act or out of frustration (for whatever reasons) 

I know you said in the other EV thread for us all to "adapt or die trying" - but you and I jolly well know that's not what usually happens. 

There will be discontent brewing and people venting their frustrations like the road rage videos we get from Facebook groups on a daily basis. 

Here we are, discussing the likely outcome of Singapore's EV future, but you are refusing to acknowledge the facts as it is presented to us at this very moment.

The EV plan has a high chance of failure at this current moment. 

The reason i say that this will fail mainly falls into 3 things. 1 is slow charging. 2, availability of the lots and 3, possibility of vandalism. 

Slow charging is going to affect the availability of the parking lots. We are unsure how payment will be going to be for these charging lots. But no doubt some will be lazy (& rich) and decide the park there for a couple of days or even weeks and hog the lot. Ideally, all parking lots should come with charging ports since its very hard to gauge how many cars in a cp is going to be electric. Other than residents, we need to buffer in visitors as well. But to install charging ports at all the lots is impossible in the next 5 years. And it is going to be expensive. Be prepared to pay more for parking in the future whether you use the charging points or not. 

one thing i feel that is not well designed for electric cars is the security of the charging socket. It's like opening up your fuel cap before you go to sleep. People can do all sorts of funny things when the owner is not around. Or people can unplug ur point and plug into their cars with you paying for it. These issues can be mitigated with fast charge since owners likely to stick around when charging. But no one is going to stand beside their cars for 8 hours. 

I would like to hear more from OKY what are the preventive measures. If not, from what i read from the article, seems that this plan is like a trial and error testbed (according to his words), firefighting kind of approach. Like what they did, or rather did not do, to introduce PMD into the country. 

[Yewheng]

2 hours ago, inlinesix said:

Whether I get what you say or not is no longer important, EV is the direction now.

You have to find ways to adapt to this change to make a living.

Not just me.. is a lot of people.. wait till a lot of people get frustrated with keep need to wait and or drive around waste time looking for charging lot.. and get very frustrated.. then government will know..

[kobayashiGT]

16 hours ago, Mustank said:

Ask you all ah

electricity car take how long to charge finish ah

Depends. if you are using this

of this.

hahahah.

[inlinesix]

1 hour ago, Comage said:

Not exactly true... If people can't or refuse to adapt, then that's where all the "out of the box" thinking comes along and you see shenanigans coming from people, e.g:

- Unplugging charger to stop their cars from being charged excessive costs

- Hogging/fighting over charging points

- Unplugging charging cables from other vehicle's as deliberate act or out of frustration (for whatever reasons) 

I know you said in the other EV thread for us all to "adapt or die trying" - but you and I jolly well know that's not what usually happens. 

There will be discontent brewing and people venting their frustrations like the road rage videos we get from Facebook groups on a daily basis. 

Here we are, discussing the likely outcome of Singapore's EV future, but you are refusing to acknowledge the facts as it is presented to us at this very moment.

The EV plan has a high chance of failure at this current moment. 

Whether true or not, it is no longer important.

It is up to you to adapt to the new reality.

[inlinesix]

38 minutes ago, Yewheng said:

Not just me.. is a lot of people.. wait till a lot of people get frustrated with keep need to wait and or drive around waste time looking for charging lot.. and get very frustrated.. then government will know..

Well, these ppl can always go car-Lite.

Hard Truth

[inlinesix]

16 minutes ago, mikk123 said:

Obviously, our top overseas educated scholars have not thought about it thoroughly before announcement.  The only outcome is even higher petrol tax and GST to make up for the huge unexpected cost that will follow. 

Hard Truth

CAR LITE

It is renew COE, adopt EV or Car Lite.

Edited March 5, 2021 by inlinesix

[Yewheng]

14 minutes ago, inlinesix said:

Well, these ppl can always go car-Lite.

Hard Truth

Hard truth is that when majority of people gets invoncined.. then let's see how going to face the pressure. 

 

Government need to understand that to make things work is not to force things down the throat. It need to be convinent, easy to use, very accessible, no need waste time.

 

Look at the change from normal handphone last time using the number pad to touchscreen smartphone. How is it able to transition from number pad hp to touchscreen smartphone? Smartphone can do so many other things at once as compared to just number pad on handphone. So it actually save people time, workload and can check email though just hp and no need open laptop. Video call, watch YouTube and etc all on hp.. so convenient. So the push is does these companies that produce smartphone push down the throat telling people to buy smartphone and then maybe there is a very inconvenient thing is that the battery get flat in 3 hours for example and keep need to charge it up every now and then? No right? If battery only last 3 hours they would not launch it but keep improve it to a certain level.. like the battery can last for at least 10 hours then launch it.

 

Same theory applies to what government do things too.. yes government want to go substainablity but this kind of thing cannot too rush until the backlash, the inconvenience side start to appear. If can't even solve the inconvenience part.. then should not go into the sharp increase, but instead of gradual increase and at the same time expend the infrastructure to meet up with gradual increase. Yes it may take more time to hit the target. But that is a lot better then sharp increase and there is not enough charging lots, people hog the charging lot and all sorts of problems. If the infrastructure really need upgrading, be it 2030 or 2040 still need to be upgraded right? So what's the difference in 10 yrs? Sometimes slow and steady mightbe a better idea then chiong fast and furious and end up a lot of hiccups here and there.. and what if that particular hiccups end up need to spend even more time and money then the slow and steady type to solve it? 

Edited March 5, 2021 by Yewheng

[Heartlander]

12 hours ago, Yewheng said:

You say like easy hor.. you never drive taxi and phv.. so you just don't understand..

The downtime = to go home time.. taxi also got their own home leh. Why they want to waste time waiting to charge full before going home? What about 2 shift driver?1 shift already clocked say 350km. So battery maybe left 1/4 or less.. need charge the if slow charge need 3 hrs to charge full? Like that how to have 2 shift driver?

 

The idea of taxi charging in "depots" is actually possible. The "depots" could make available time slots at 30min interval and ask the taxi drivers to reserve the slot or book long term basis where they could spend the time sprucing up their ride before handing over to relief driver as per practice now. And not really need for the taxi companies to have own depots, could have commercial run generic depots machiam petrol stations that can accept bookings from any EVs. So maybe that is the future of the current petrol stations. You can spend the 30min idling or washing your car or paying someone to wash for you. With this booking system, it will eliminate the issue of people hogging the facilities and turning ugly. Anyway nowadays everyone got handphones so should be very easy to implement. Just press button to see which depots have available slots available and just press button to book them at desired time for those non-taxi/PHV drivers.

[Karoon]

14 hours ago, Lala81 said:

Hydrogen can be used for shipping. 

Problem is u can't have two competing infrastructures for two competing solutions. First u have pre existing petrol stations which can be converted to hydrogen I guess. But then your passenger vehicles all on electric or hybrid. Its not profitable to run hydrogen stations for just commercial vehicles. 

The former env minister also favored hydrogen. Wonder what/who forced the change. 

Quote

In Mr Masagos's estimation, hydrogen is a better long-term solution than electric vehicles for decarbonising transportation, in part because of the carbon footprint from mining the metals needed to produce car batteries and the issues around their eventual disposal.

 

[Karoon]

15 hours ago, Throttle2 said:

The point is this, Porsche Rapid Charge is proprietory. 
At best it is made available at Stuttgart Agent.  How much positive impact is there truly in the “Road to EV cars” mission? 
The only way is to develop it exclusively for porsche owners use at home .  Dont ask me how, i am not the car siao.

Incoming thread:

Worst decision ever... bought a porsche rapid charge... house burn down liao.

 

 

[inlinesix]

3 minutes ago, Karoon said:

Incoming thread:

Worst decision ever... bought a porsche rapid charge... house burn down liao.

You can't install Porshe Rapid Charger at home.

Insufficient power supply (including those on 3phase)

[Lethalstrike]

1 hour ago, Stratovarius said:

The reason i say that this will fail mainly falls into 3 things. 1 is slow charging. 2, availability of the lots and 3, possibility of vandalism. 

Slow charging is going to affect the availability of the parking lots. We are unsure how payment will be going to be for these charging lots. But no doubt some will be lazy (& rich) and decide the park there for a couple of days or even weeks and hog the lot. Ideally, all parking lots should come with charging ports since its very hard to gauge how many cars in a cp is going to be electric. Other than residents, we need to buffer in visitors as well. But to install charging ports at all the lots is impossible in the next 5 years. And it is going to be expensive. Be prepared to pay more for parking in the future whether you use the charging points or not. 

one thing i feel that is not well designed for electric cars is the security of the charging socket. It's like opening up your fuel cap before you go to sleep. People can do all sorts of funny things when the owner is not around. Or people can unplug ur point and plug into their cars with you paying for it. These issues can be mitigated with fast charge since owners likely to stick around when charging. But no one is going to stand beside their cars for 8 hours. 

I would like to hear more from OKY what are the preventive measures. If not, from what i read from the article, seems that this plan is like a trial and error testbed (according to his words), firefighting kind of approach. Like what they did, or rather did not do, to introduce PMD into the country. 

I'm pretty sure none of those in the relevant ministries had given a thought about all these plausible scenarios on the ground yet. Currently, its about getting the EV bandwagon going, getting more private companies on board to build infrastructure and how to "creatively" recoup the shortfall from petrol duties through the EV owners once critical mass is achieved. 

Hogging problem could probably be mitigated by slapping the EV occupying the lot with a penalty fee if vehicle wasn't moved out once charge was completed. It should be done in such a way that EV owners will have to know how much they need to charge beforehand, pay upfront to the charger (probably thru a mobile app linked to credit card) for X hours of charging needed.

Once these X hours are over and EV is still occupying the lot (detected through some weight or other sensors), a flat penalty fee will be incurred. An automated reminder on the mobile app should inform the owner 30 mins beforehand that their charging session is almost complete, and warn them to get ready to move their vehicle out of the lot. The onus should be on the EV owner to know and pay only for the charge that he/she required, and to KNOW when to unplug and remove their vehicle from the lot. 

Physical mischief of charging socket can be deterred thru CCTV surveillance with every charger or near parking lot. I don't think its possible to unplug the charger from the another car if the car that was doing the charging was locked. You will need to unlock the car before one can pull out the charging plug from it. If its yanked out by force, it's probably going to damage the charging plug anyway, rendering it useless and you risk having your face caught by CCTV. It's a stupid thing to do because you still need to park your own car beside the car which already paid for the charging, you also risk having your license plate caught on camera. 

 

 

Edited March 5, 2021 by Lethalstrike

[inlinesix]

9 minutes ago, Lethalstrike said:

I'm pretty sure none of those in the relevant ministries had given a thought about all these plausible scenarios on the ground yet. Currently, its about getting the EV bandwagon going, getting more private companies on board to build infrastructure and how to "creatively" recoup the shortfall from petrol duties through the EV owners once critical mass is achieved. 

Hogging problem could probably be mitigated by slapping the EV occupying the lot with a penalty fee if vehicle wasn't moved out once charge was completed. It should be done in such a way that EV owners will have to know how much they need to charge beforehand, pay upfront to the charger (probably thru a mobile app linked to credit card) for X hours of charging needed.

Once these X hours are over and EV is still occupying the lot (detected through some weight or other sensors), a flat penalty fee will be incurred. An automated reminder on the mobile app should inform the owner 30 mins beforehand that their charging session is almost complete, and warn them to get ready to move their vehicle out of the lot. The onus should be on the EV owner to know and pay only for the charge that he/she required, and to KNOW when to unplug and remove their vehicle from the lot. 

Physical mischief of charging socket can be deterred thru CCTV surveillance with every charger or near parking lot. I don't think its possible to unplug the charger from the another car if the car that was doing the charging was locked. You will need to unlock the car before one can pull out the charging plug from it. If its yanked out by force, it's probably going to damage the charging plug anyway, rendering it useless and you risk having your face caught by CCTV. It's a stupid thing to do because you still need to park your own car beside the car which already paid for the charging, you also risk having your license plate caught on camera. 

Honestly, most Singaporean is resistant to change especially it caused "inconvenience".

If not this cold turkey policy direction, I believe we will be dragging our foot till 2300.

By then, very likely we might be still driving MYVI as it is the only ICE available in the market.

[Mustank]

1 hour ago, kobayashiGT said:

Depends. if you are using this

of this.

hahahah.

Aiyah just go mscp upper floor kope the 15a plug power then become electricity car Liao mah

[Lethalstrike]

4 minutes ago, inlinesix said:

Honestly, most Singaporean is resistant to change especially it caused "inconvenience".

If not this cold turkey policy direction, I believe we will be dragging our foot till 2300.

By then, very likely we might be still driving MYVI as it is the only ICE available in the market.

I don't think Singaporeans are that resistant to change, especially not if changes are forced down their throats 😁

From what I can gather from the comments here, a few were overthinking things. A lot of the perceived operational / practical issues are real and they may happen on the ground once implemented, but these are issues which can be avoided with the help of technology. With technology, it might even be more convenient for some. I don't deny that a small degree in the change of habit is required for private EV car owners, but to me, it really isn't that much difference from charging your mobile phone at home / office. Once people get over the adaptation phase, it becomes a new norm, just like mandatory mask wearing. 

What I agree with them though, is that the LTA, HDB, NEA, PUB, PAP have a high propensity to royally fcuk things up from the get-go. They will only re-calibrate (*that's their favourite word nowadays in fighting Covid) their initial policies and do trial-and-error, rather than from the start everything swee swee.  

 

[Yewheng]

Anyway I am thinking to reduce people from hogging charging lots will be to have a system in place that before driver is able to plug in and charge. The system will be able to capture this driver hp no, either though key into the machine or system just scan ic and recognise it and will show it on the screen and for driver to amend the number if need to. 

 

So after getting the hp no. Once the car is fully charged up, the system will send SMS to the driver telling driver that the car is now fully charged and give about 30 minutes grace period to come and shift car. If after 30 minutes is up and driver no come and shift car, there will be additional charges per minute bases. Maybe 1 minute 5cents. So 1 HR = 3 dollars. So if say this driver parked the car in that charging lot overnight and the charging finished say 9pm and driver go and drive car out next day 9am then the driver will incur additional 36 dollars for leaving the car overnight hogging the charging lot.