S’pore to stop diesel car, taxi registrations, have 8 ‘EV-ready towns’ including Bedok, Punggol, Queenstown by 2025

[Mkl22]

2 hours ago, inlinesix said:

Whether true or not, it is no longer important.

It is up to you to adapt to the new reality.

agree. like the new ERP2 device. one can always don't install if you never need to pass any gantry.

[Beehive3783]

37 minutes ago, kelaihoyin said:

I don't see how 1hr of lunch time or even 0.5hr meal time can't do a proper full charge with DC50. Is not like they will only charge when battery goes to 0. 

Clearly your understanding of time and mine is quite different.

Hmm, i stand corrected then. That is provided the infrastructure is set up properly for all taxis on the island to find the required charging ports required during those times. Oh, not forgetting the competition with other private electric cars also looking to get a charge during those times

[Comage]

53 minutes ago, Yewheng said:

Anyway I am thinking to reduce people from hogging charging lots will be to have a system in place that before driver is able to plug in and charge. The system will be able to capture this driver hp no, either though key into the machine or system just scan ic and recognise it and will show it on the screen and for driver to amend the number if need to. 

 

So after getting the hp no. Once the car is fully charged up, the system will send SMS to the driver telling driver that the car is now fully charged and give about 30 minutes grace period to come and shift car. If after 30 minutes is up and driver no come and shift car, there will be additional charges per minute bases. Maybe 1 minute 5cents. So 1 HR = 3 dollars. So if say this driver parked the car in that charging lot overnight and the charging finished say 9pm and driver go and drive car out next day 9am then the driver will incur additional 36 dollars for leaving the car overnight hogging the charging lot.

Don't think this is gonna work that effectively... Coz there's always those who will simply pay just to get that lot. 

On a side note, my HDB estate always has certain drivers hogging the loading bay and parking there for the whole afternoon or overnight. The parking warden comes and slaps the car with the $70 fine slip - and what happens? Guy comes down sees the slip, leaves it there and continues leaving the vehicle there for the rest of the next day! 

Singapore drivers can be damned cash-rich when it comes to paying fines. $70/day got a "VIP" lot is a pretty good deal to them! 

The only way I see this will work is the use of tow trucks. Do we even have a city impound yard or something like other countries? I always see signs warning drivers that vehicles illegally parked will be towed away, but I've never seen a tow truck come on behalf of HDB. 

[Beehive3783]

40 minutes ago, inlinesix said:

How much is Taycan RWD?

Why don't you tell us how much it is? Since you brought up the Taycan as an example.

Even a basic Nissan electric car costs well over,  like what, $120k or more?

Not really the best example to use as an electric car for the commoner, isn't it?

[Dannnn]

16 minutes ago, mikk123 said:

for everyone's safety, we all go back horse riding, or walking. 🐎

To go car lite, Someone has to set example and don't take car lah...who should start first? 

Cannot, if all do walking, next  time your TT token will need to input your CC details. So they can charge you "ERP".

If not, lost of income from electricity duties/petrol/diesels tax. then maybe all humans who is walking will need pay road tax also liao

[Dannnn]

Taycan cheapest model , 460k exclude COE list price

[inlinesix]

5 minutes ago, Beehive3783 said:

Why don't you tell us how much it is? Since you brought up the Taycan as an example.

Even a basic Nissan electric car costs well over,  like what, $120k or more?

Not really the best example to use as an electric car for the commoner, isn't it?

HARD TRUTH

CAR LITE

Edit: Nissan Leaf ARF is $5k with selling price of $140k.

Model 3 ARF is $32k with selling price of $162k.

Edited March 5, 2021 by inlinesix

[Beehive3783]

40 minutes ago, Lethalstrike said:

It will be made sustainable, else why are all the automakers and battery companies throwing away hundreds of billions in EV related investment for nothing? Collectively, they will create a new market segments which will lower costs significantly as production numbers go up. 

As an example of the most critical component of an EV, the cost to produce Li-Ion battery pack prices used to be USD 1,100 per kW/h back in 2010. In 2020, we are already looking at USD 130 per kW/h. That's just the costs of production, not including the advancements made to increase range, reduce size and using more sustainable metals (nickel from cobalt etc). 

Anyway, back to the video. In China, NIO made it a free subscription service for all NIO owners. If you say its an infrastructure costs, I don't really think it's that much of a concern to government backed juggernaut like Comfort Delgro. At most it's a one off few hundred million investment to have an existing diesel depot converted to a 100 bay battery hot swap station. But that will mean Comfort Delgro will be tied to a certain make and model of EV though, since hot swap infrastructure is unlikely to be made universally compatible among all EV makes.

 

I think you forgot that Singapore being Singapore with its small area, there is not much economies of scale to talk about, compared to Europe, China and the Americas.

From what I am seeing so far up till now, infrastructure costs in Singapore is a real concern due to limited land. Let's not talk about other countries because they are not as small as us.

[Lethalstrike]

1 minute ago, Beehive3783 said:

I think you forgot that Singapore being Singapore with its small area, there is not much economies of scale to talk about, compared to Europe, China and the Americas.

From what I am seeing so far up till now, infrastructure costs in Singapore is a real concern due to limited land. Let's not talk about other countries because they are not as small as us.

Don't quite understand what you meant when you say economies of scale from other countries don't apply to us. I mean if Maker X increased total production of their EVs for worldwide sales, doesn't that result in a positive economy of scale for SG as well since we are importing in the same EVs?

Your doubts earlier is that it's unrealistic for taxi companies here to adopt EVs for its entire fleet, due to charging cycles disrupting drivers from plying the roads. Thus, I've explained to you the possibility of battery swapping stations, which is something viable for a company such as Comfort Delgro to adopt because they will have real operational concerns to address with EVs' charging cycles. 

If it's now a question about infrastructure costs , it's a matter of how the government of the day wants to deal with it. They already proven they can give much concessions overnight to reduce EV taxes, why would it be hard for them to give financial rebates/subsidies to encourage companies to build EV infrastructure? They are already giving these subsidies to get charging infrastructure up in HDBs, condos and other public locations. SP Group collab with Hyundai just as a notable example. 

The infrastructure costs in relation to land size is one which is artificially inflated by the policy makers. If they want to push for something, they can make it *cheap, at least during the initial phases. 

 

[Beehive3783]

24 minutes ago, Lethalstrike said:

Don't quite understand what you meant when you say economies of scale from other countries don't apply to us. I mean if Maker X increased total production of their EVs for worldwide sales, doesn't that result in a positive economy of scale for SG as well since we are importing in the same EVs?

Your doubts earlier is that it's unrealistic for taxi companies here to adopt EVs for its entire fleet, due to charging cycles disrupting drivers from plying the roads. Thus, I've explained to you the possibility of battery swapping stations, which is something viable for a company such as Comfort Delgro to adopt because they will have real operational concerns to address with EVs' charging cycles. 

If it's now a question about infrastructure costs , it's a matter of how the government of the day wants to deal with it. They already proven they can give much concessions overnight to reduce EV taxes, why would it be hard for them to give financial rebates/subsidies to encourage companies to build EV infrastructure? They are already giving these subsidies to get charging infrastructure up in HDBs, condos and other public locations. SP Group collab with Hyundai just as a notable example. 

The infrastructure costs in relation to land size is one which is artificially inflated by the policy makers. If they want to push for something, they can make it *cheap, at least during the initial phases. 

 

I understand your points, but let's just say that I am thinking about this whole thing from a different angle. One that is not as optimistic as yours.

[Lethalstrike]

2 minutes ago, Beehive3783 said:

I understand your points, but let's just say that I am thinking about this whole thing from a different angle. One that is not as optimistic as yours.

If your point is about the policy makers and stat boards cocking up the whole EV adoption thingy locally, I'm with you. 🤣

If its about the merits and future sustainability of EV as a whole, I stand by my points. 

[Comage]

1 hour ago, Lethalstrike said:

If your point is about the policy makers and stat boards cocking up the whole EV adoption thingy locally, I'm with you. 🤣

If its about the merits and future sustainability of EV as a whole, I stand by my points. 

I think the economies of scale is somewhat appropriate. 

If we look at some mainstream car like a Toyota Corolla... Other countries can have it going for a couple thousand bucks for a used one, maybe $10-20k for a new one?

Here in Singapore, the same car costs twice that amount, even thrice, without COE. Even for a used Corolla, not factoring in the remaining COE price, you see it selling for at least $10k+ upwards. 

Not exactly an economist to explain all these, but there's always some things that sell for some $x overseas, but the moment it hits our shores it get slapped on with an "import" product label and the thing suddenly goes x2 or x3 the price in the Singapore market. 

That's why everyone is buying things online and shipping them in overseas. 

Maybe not exactly a fair comparison, but I get what beehive is saying. 

[yishunite]

4 hours ago, Karoon said:

The former env minister also favored hydrogen. Wonder what/who forced the change. 

Quote

In Mr Masagos's estimation, hydrogen is a better long-term solution than electric vehicles for decarbonising transportation, in part because of the carbon footprint from mining the metals needed to produce car batteries and the issues around their eventual disposal.

 

Car battery recycling is coming soon... necessity is the mother of invention

Anyway... 

Quote

Fossil fuel cars make 'hundreds of times' more waste than electric cars

Fossil fuel cars waste hundreds of times more raw material than their battery electric equivalents, according to a study that adds to evidence that the move away from petrol and diesel cars will bring large net environmental benefits.

Only about 30kg of raw material will be lost over the lifecycle of a lithium ion battery used in electric cars once recycling is taken into account, compared with 17,000 litres of oil, according to analysis by Transport & Environment (T&E)

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/mar/01/fossil-fuel-cars-make-hundreds-of-times-more-waste-than-electric-cars

[Sunset73]

When the Hyundai Plant is up in a few years at Jurong West, we can all look forward to cheap and locally manufacutured Hyundai Electric cars. Looking to snag an Ioniq 5 at 75k with COE, in my dreams.

Edited March 5, 2021 by Sunset73

[Lethalstrike]

1 hour ago, Comage said:

I think the economies of scale is somewhat appropriate. 

If we look at some mainstream car like a Toyota Corolla... Other countries can have it going for a couple thousand bucks for a used one, maybe $10-20k for a new one?

Here in Singapore, the same car costs twice that amount, even thrice, without COE. Even for a used Corolla, not factoring in the remaining COE price, you see it selling for at least $10k+ upwards. 

Not exactly an economist to explain all these, but there's always some things that sell for some $x overseas, but the moment it hits our shores it get slapped on with an "import" product label and the thing suddenly goes x2 or x3 the price in the Singapore market. 

That's why everyone is buying things online and shipping them in overseas. 

Maybe not exactly a fair comparison, but I get what beehive is saying. 

Then that's not about economies of scale we're talking about already, brother. That's the effect of convoluted taxation (ARF, COE etc) on cars which only existed in SG. 

Economies of scale, simply put, is when you produce a product in large enough quantities to achieve the required cost efficiencies, resulting in lower selling prices while maintaining profits. 

 

 

Edited March 5, 2021 by Lethalstrike

[inlinesix]

1 hour ago, Sunset73 said:

When the Hyundai Plant is up in a few years at Jurong West, we can all look forward to cheap and locally manufacutured Hyundai Electric cars. Looking to snag an Ioniq 5 at 75k with COE, in my dreams.

Currently, Nissan Leaf with ARF of $5k sells for $140k.  Annual Depreciation is $13,750.

On the other hand, Tesla Model 3 with ARF of $32k sells for $162k.  Annual Depreciation is $14,600

From Depreciation perspective, it does not make sense to buy from AD.

As Early Adopter incentive will run out in 2023, ioniq 5 at 75k is dream.

[inlinesix]

8 minutes ago, Lethalstrike said:

Then that's not about economies of scale we're talking about already, brother. That's the effect of convoluted taxation (ARF, COE etc) on cars which only existed in SG. 

Economies of scale, simply put, is when you produce a product in large enough quantities to achieve the required cost efficiencies, resulting in lower selling prices while maintaining profits.

Other than taxes, a big chunk of money paid to obscene mark-up.

This obscene mark-up is due to a relatively small market to spread the cost (economies of scale).

Currently, Nissan Leaf with ARF of $5k sells for $140k.  Annual Depreciation is $13,750.

On the other hand, Tesla Model 3 with ARF of $32k sells for $162k.  Annual Depreciation is $14,600.

[Mustank]

6 minutes ago, inlinesix said:

Other than taxes, a big chunk of money paid to obscene mark-up.

This obscene mark-up is due to a relatively small market to spread the cost (economies of scale).

Currently, Nissan Leaf with ARF of $5k sells for $140k.  Annual Depreciation is $13,750.

On the other hand, Tesla Model 3 with ARF of $32k sells for $162k.  Annual Depreciation is $14,600.

Taobao got sell?

I wanna buy ☹️
 

aliepxress don’t have ☹️

Edited March 5, 2021 by Mustank