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Yewheng

Hari Raya/Wedding Costume saga with PA

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Twincharged

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10159106344728766&id=165507888765

 

Look.. what I scared the most.. slowly we are progressing to a stage where every single thing that happened and labeled it as racist. Hope this is an isolating incident, if not we are in a big trouble.. 

There are 2 big concern.

1. The way both mainstream and or non mainstream wrote their article on their agenda. News article can have many way of writing, and they way the article is written can subconsciously led us to think in certain direction that the news article want us to believe in. That's very dangerous if say xzy news media want us to believe that so and so race is racist against another race or so on.

 

2. The use of social media and it outspread. As we all know social media can magnify things if it went viral. What it all mean is that things can get stroke up and become very negative or even cause more anger among others. So that itself is very dangerous weapon.

 

 

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Turbocharged
1 hour ago, Yewheng said:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10159106344728766&id=165507888765

 

Look.. what I scared the most.. slowly we are progressing to a stage where every single thing that happened and labeled it as racist. Hope this is an isolating incident, if not we are in a big trouble.. 

Exactly. Something like this gaffe might be due to ignorance and stupidity. But get magnified into racist allegations. Somehow i feel a little schadenfreude that PA, of all organisations, is at the receiving end. So, what do all the mini-star say now?

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Twincharged (edited)
9 hours ago, Yewheng said:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10159106344728766&id=165507888765

 

Look.. what I scared the most.. slowly we are progressing to a stage where every single thing that happened and labeled it as racist. Hope this is an isolating incident, if not we are in a big trouble.. 

There are 2 big concern.

1. The way both mainstream and or non mainstream wrote their article on their agenda. News article can have many way of writing, and they way the article is written can subconsciously led us to think in certain direction that the news article want us to believe in. That's very dangerous if say xzy news media want us to believe that so and so race is racist against another race or so on.

 

2. The use of social media and it outspread. As we all know social media can magnify things if it went viral. What it all mean is that things can get stroke up and become very negative or even cause more anger among others. So that itself is very dangerous weapon.

 

 

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/peoples-association-withdraws-offer-to-meet-couple-over-wedding-photo-incident

Quoted

"We regularly reach out to numerous community partners among all our races and religions to ensure their concerns are actively considered when designing our programmes," it added.

The PA also said that what happened at Radin Mas was an isolated incident, but nevertheless shows that it can fall short.

"We agree it is important for our staff and volunteers to be sensitive to and knowledgeable about the cultures of all our ethnic groups. We are now looking at establishing a resource panel to guide and advise our staff on cultural matters," it said.

--------------------------------------

To me that was racist on PA part given their resources. How on earth can such a big association supposedly overlooking the benefit of whole of singapore  made such a glaring mistake. Cutting out of some wedding photo (copy right?) and abuse it as their own creation to be use in a religious festival? In this case none representative raised doubt after the erection of the standee?

Looking at their "exchanges" PA didn't even bother to meet up with that lady. It spell arrogant all over. "I can do no wrong. is the vendor fault".

Probably minority group wasn't well presented in PA. 🤔

Edited by Kopites
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6th Gear

Actually I also do not see this mistake as racist.. copyright infringement and culturally ignorant yes.. but in what way is it racist?

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Supersonic (edited)

From my point of view, nothing wrong or damaging. This couple over sensitive lar.... :wut:

Should be proud of their photo been used for Hari Raya celebration banners in whole of Radin Mas. Its a joful occasion and when ppls see it, ppl will bless the couple.  [:)]

If photo used for other occasion, then a different story .... :=B:

Edited by Picnic06-Biante15
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Twincharged
8 minutes ago, Tkseah said:

Actually I also do not see this mistake as racist.. copyright infringement and culturally ignorant yes.. but in what way is it racist?

Not understanding or ignorant of the culture when erecting a standee.

 

 

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6th Gear
5 minutes ago, Kopites said:

Not understanding or ignorant of the culture when erecting a standee.

 

Is that racism?  Definition of racism (below) is that there should be prejudice or antagonism..

"prejudiced against or antagonistic towards a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized."

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Twincharged
20 minutes ago, Tkseah said:

Actually I also do not see this mistake as racist.. copyright infringement and culturally ignorant yes.. but in what way is it racist?

Not really.  It depends on the INTENT.  That's the thing.  INTENT is subjective and the hardest to prove.  

But I agree with you. It's not racism but copyright infringement and culturally ignorant.  But it all depends on whether the people are convinced that this is the true intent. Cos there will be people stirring the opposite. 

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6th Gear

I dun find it racist at all but yes, insensitive & illegal (nvr ask the couple for their permission).

Anyhow, PA sucks and already apologize but the lady seems to be looking for more than that, huh....

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Twincharged
36 minutes ago, Kopites said:

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/peoples-association-withdraws-offer-to-meet-couple-over-wedding-photo-incident

Quoted

"We regularly reach out to numerous community partners among all our races and religions to ensure their concerns are actively considered when designing our programmes," it added.

The PA also said that what happened at Radin Mas was an isolated incident, but nevertheless shows that it can fall short.

"We agree it is important for our staff and volunteers to be sensitive to and knowledgeable about the cultures of all our ethnic groups. We are now looking at establishing a resource panel to guide and advise our staff on cultural matters," it said.

--------------------------------------

To me that was racist on PA part given their resources. How on earth can such a big association supposedly overlooking the benefit of whole of singapore  made such a glaring mistake. Cutting out of some wedding photo (copy right?) and abuse it as their own creation to be use in a religious festival? In this case none representative raised doubt after the erection of the standee?

Looking at their "exchanges" PA didn't even bother to meet up with that lady. It spell arrogant all over. "I can do no wrong. is the vendor fault".

Probably minority group wasn't well presented in PA. 🤔

Yes, PA was wrong to begin with.  That does not mean it is racist. If that's what you think it is racist.. then I can tell you there will be too many in the list will be listed as racist.. maybe even to when people greet good morning, and the other person replied what's so good about morning and then label that other person as racist? Do we really want to progress to a society where every little thing get triggered and then end up everyone life's become miserable and also make everyone busy especially the police? Sometimes just have to accept it that there is no perfect society and give and take, compassion, live and let live, forgiveness and etc is far more superior then every little thing get triggered up as racist.

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Supersonic

I have such righteous schadenfreude seeing the PA being pilloried in the social media like this. No pity or sympathy for them whatsoever. If a member of the oppo can be obnoxiously persecuted by the powers that be for "racism" when she was just exercising her free speech rights to point out social injustices here, then this poodle arm of the men in white can damn well suffer at least this. 

Sauce for the goose, etc.

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Twincharged (edited)
9 minutes ago, Cheesey74 said:

I dun find it racist at all but yes, insensitive & illegal (nvr ask the couple for their permission).

Anyhow, PA sucks and already apologize but the lady seems to be looking for more than that, huh....

One thing I find PA could have done better is that PA should at least meet up with that lady instead of assuming lady intention without meeting the lady at 1st and cancel the meeting. 

 

PA just can't assume things leh.. yes that lady want to gather more view from public so that she could feedback to PA. That's does not mean that she will be deviate from the original intention of discussing and or solving the main issue. Maybe she felt beside solving the original issue, she could also provide feedback about others? So why closed the door so quickly. Plus she is willing to go the way out to want to ask people to give their views so that she could feedback to PA means that she cares and want things to improve. Then PA closed the door just like that? You know how disappointing it is and make PA looks bad. There's a saying "assume is the mother of all f**k up" so yeah..

 

Although certainly PA could be doing better in that situation, that does not mean anything labeling PA as racist or sort of. Both are different context.

Edited by Yewheng

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6th Gear
7 minutes ago, Turboflat4 said:

I have such righteous schadenfreude seeing the PA being pilloried in the social media like this. No pity or sympathy for them whatsoever. If a member of the oppo can be obnoxiously persecuted by the powers that be for "racism" when she was just exercising her free speech rights to point out social injustices here, then this poodle arm of the men in white can damn well suffer at least this. 

Sauce for the goose, etc.

This I agree..  

My new word for the day.. schadenfreude 

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Twincharged
16 minutes ago, Philipkee said:

Not really.  It depends on the INTENT.  That's the thing.  INTENT is subjective and the hardest to prove.  

But I agree with you. It's not racism but copyright infringement and culturally ignorant.  But it all depends on whether the people are convinced that this is the true intent. Cos there will be people stirring the opposite. 

That is PA assumption on that lady intention. PA representative haven't even met up with her and so quickly assume that lady intention based on she social media online posting of asking people to give her feedback and will voice it out to PA? Common.. also should give benefit of doubt.. if really so scared.. then when meet up put in extra layer of precaution lor.. the extra layer of precaution could be in a from of video taping the whole conversation just incase anything goes wrong or even call upon a security personnel on there standby just incase anything goes wrong. That would be far better then assuming things. 

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Supercharged

My own thoughts (as majority race):

- PA cannot blame sub-con for mistake. Very typical PAP style. They have to be fully responsible for the mistake.

- No matter whether couple make unnecessary ho-ha, they still owe it to the couple to meet and apologise.

- This is copyright issue, nothing to do with racism. They took someone's photos without permission.

- Underlying issue is cultural ignorance. Unlikely that the people who did it would mistakenly use Chinese traditional wedding garb and mistaken it for Chinese opera costume.

- PA can clarify and say it is nothing to do with racism etc, but if the couple had made harsh speech out of line, then it is not their duty to police, that should be left to MHA as making racially inflammatory words is an offence under law 

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Turbocharged (edited)
41 minutes ago, Philipkee said:

Not really.  It depends on the INTENT.  That's the thing.  INTENT is subjective and the hardest to prove.  

But I agree with you. It's not racism but copyright infringement and culturally ignorant.  But it all depends on whether the people are convinced that this is the true intent. Cos there will be people stirring the opposite. 

You are absolutely right. If there was no malice intended, it's only a dumb mistake. As the PA acknowledged, as future improvement, anything touching on cultural or religious matter, even as innocent as putting up some decorations or translation (this is another rich source of gaffes!) , will need a "green-light" committee composed of representatives of the communities who can provide advice and counter-act any allegations of insensitivity. I thought this is a logical thing to do, why never have this in the first place?

You are also right to say that there are a lot of "stirrers" trying to blow it up into something that it is not. But then, this was what the "general direction" seemed to be, in the past few weeks, wasn't it? I'll only say, once you get on that tiger, it's hard to get off [laugh] Will be interesting to see how the powers-that-be worms its way out of this one. So far, still silence.

 

Edited by Sosaria
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Supersonic
48 minutes ago, Kopites said:

Not understanding or ignorant of the culture when erecting a standee.

 

 

That is not rascist. That's incompetence, ignorance or not knowing their job well. Rascist would be they deliberately target a particular race negatively.

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Turbocharged (edited)
14 minutes ago, Sosaria said:

You are absolutely right. If there was no malice intended, it's only a dumb mistake. As the PA acknowledged, anything touching on cultural or religious matter, even as innocent as putting up some decorations or translation (this is another rich source of gaffes!) , will need a "green-light" committee composed of elder/senior of the representative communities who can provide advice and counter-act any allegations of insensitivity.

You are also right to say that there are a lot of "stirrers" trying to blow it up into something that it is not. But then, this was what the "general direction" seemed to be, in the past few weeks, wasn't it? I'll only say, once you get on that tiger, it's hard to get off [laugh] Will be interesting to see how the powers-that-be worms its way out of this one. So far, still silence.

 

However PA is inciting it even more by making that statement. I won’t even call it an apology. As a body that promotes interaction between the races and have duty to uphold social cohesion. The reply reeks of arrogance and instead of calming things down is making it worse. PA should be bigger than this regardless of what the woman has said. their service pledge as below. Super ironic!!

 

Our Service Pledge

We are the People’s Association 

We pledge to care for the people 
With integrity and empathy. 

We pledge to innovate for the people 
To deliver confidence and excellence. 

We are the People’s Association 
And we will Serve with Care.


 

if PA can be like this. What more other government bodies! It’s always the adage of “Limpeh is right! Say somemore and limpeh will bury you!”

maybe one more GRC lost come 2025! 

Edited by Mkl22
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