ST opinion: Windfall gains from selling flats should be taxed

[1fast1]

59 minutes ago, Old-driver said:

This one is District Tent wor.... 🤣

District Ten = Tanglin/Holland 

District Tent = Tang/Horlicks

Based on what you'll be living on in the tent. 😁

[Throttle2]

4 hours ago, Jtis said:

Completely agree because this is supposed to be public housing, not private housing. The way things are going, housing prices are escalating because it is being pushed up by expectations from a few outlier transactions, and I am worried if the next generation can afford HDB prices. Everyone is expecting to profit handsomely from selling their HDB. Taxes won't work because it will just jack prices further up, the only way IMO is to try to remove the ability for ppl to get a windfall from selling their HDB housing.  

Increased MOP is potentially a gd idea, although there are potentially practical drawbacks like if families somehow need to upgrade to a bigger place for an expanding family.  If only there is a requirement to return the flat to hdb at a fair price for selling, for balloting by new flat applicants. That removes the windfall factor and the incentive to drive prices up. But then, I am realistic that probably won't work cos the real estate industry will be badly impacted if that source of revenue is removed. 

This, I say until throat dry already….. 
MOP 10 yrs for a start would be good.  
It takes true grit and determination to reset things. 
Time for a reset.  
 

[Kopites]

10 minutes ago, Throttle2 said:

This, I say until throat dry already….. 
MOP 10 yrs for a start would be good.  
It takes true grit and determination to reset things. 
Time for a reset.  
 

Reduce the lease tenure to 70 as most young couple get their first bto around 30 plus age.

[Wt_know]

13 minutes ago, Kopites said:

Reduce the lease tenure to 70 as most young couple get their first bto around 30 plus age.

10 years MOP + 69 years lease

but doing means hdb is "cheap" to build but "expensive" to buy ... also 死 路 一 条 ... LOL

just like mickey mouse studio ... selling price is low below $1M but $psf is $2000+ ... lol

Edited June 29, 2021 by Wt_know

[DOBIEMKZ]

6 hours ago, kobayashiGT said:

https://goo.gl/maps/ox6Bps7bi5nbdYEA8

I found a good spot. Maybe I will buy a kayak, I can paddle to sentosa and save my entry fee. 🤣

You have to pay parking fee for your kayak there.😁

[Wt_know]

my suggestion would be tax buyer and not seller because seller can price it high ... parts of profit margin

in order to curb price ... tax buyer not seller ... if tax seller ... simply means the tax is added into the selling price .. even worse for future generation

Edited June 29, 2021 by Wt_know

[Windwaver]

7 hours ago, kobayashiGT said:

Spoiler

 

Source: https://www.straitstimes.com/opinion/forum/forum-windfall-gains-from-selling-flats-should-be-taxed

The Straits Times' associate editor Chua Mui Hoong wrote an excellent piece on returning the Housing Board to its original mandate (Returning HDB to its roots of building homes, not short-term assets, June 25).

It resonates with the letter I wrote to the Forum in December suggesting that focus be placed on the resale market to address the lottery conundrum in public housing (Focus on resale market to address public housing issues, Dec 21, 2020), as well as the opinions of many other writers on how to address this inequitable phenomenon.

As Ms Chua aptly pointed out, windfall gains that go to those who could afford high-priced Build-To-Order flats in the first place defeat the purpose of subsidised public housing. It is therefore pertinent that taxes of some sort be levied on such capital gains.

Ms Chua's suggestion of treating such gains (on the sale of all subsidised HDB flats in all locations) as income is a brilliant idea, as this mechanism promises to give precisely the equitable effect that is sought.

In the same way that the additional buyer's stamp duty and other property cooling measures were rolled out fairly quickly in various stages, is it not possible to tackle this facet of the lottery effect while the authorities continue to seek and digest public feedback on a new/enhanced public housing model?

It is quite unbelievable that the number of HDB resale flats costing more than $1 million has been on the rise, with 87 sold in the first five months of this year.

 

 

If people stay in their first own flat for the rest of their lives, will they get interest out of it? 

 

[Windwaver]

1 hour ago, Throttle2 said:

This, I say until throat dry already….. 
MOP 10 yrs for a start would be good.  
It takes true grit and determination to reset things. 
Time for a reset.  

I actually suggested that to my MP before 

 

[Ct3833]

it is a supply and demand problem, as long as HDB does not build sufficient housing, HDB price will continue to go up. At the end of the day, the tax will be loaded into the selling price, meaning  to the buyers,  IRAS will be the sole beneficiary. Next is HDB price will move up by the tax value minimally.  HDB itself is also inducing the problem,  price of new flat continue to go up, how can the price of old flats stay flat ? 

dont believe  just look across the causeway, they have  many apartment in excess, see their property price go up  like HDB one or not. 

Edited June 29, 2021 by Ct3833

[Wt_know]

11 minutes ago, Ct3833 said:

it is a supply and demand problem, as long as HDB does not build sufficient housing, HDB price will continue to go up. At the end of the day, the tax will be loaded into the selling price, meaning  to the buyers,  IRAS will be the sole beneficiary. Next is HDB price will move up by the tax value minimally.  HDB itself is also inducing the problem,  price of new flat continue to go up, how can the price of old flats stay flat ? 

even SUPPLY > DEMAND

i would say bto and resale hdb price will still skyrocket and cheong pass $1M for area we all know sure sell one la  

why? because who buy who make $250k to $500k a pop profit wor

it’s a sure win TOTO  … who don’t want?

just like GSW … we dont even know how and what it will looks like and everyone already talking no $1M no talk

and ministar already headache who can buy and who get lucky windfall?

Edited June 29, 2021 by Wt_know

[Ct3833]

those who bought at 1mil may want to look at this analogy. 😀

Edited June 29, 2021 by Ct3833

[Ash2017]

I am adjusting to the fact that some may take umbrage to my comments this morning.

 

It nearly always take two hands to clap. Who has been pumping idea that HDB is an asset? Once you suggest or brainwashed someone that a commodity is an asset, by shear natural instinct it becomes a tradeable commodity for profit.

 

The wealth (rich - poor) gap is widening but there is little of instrument that allow the heartlanders to invest with decent returns and security. Look around, many got screwed by Lehman, investment linked insurance, Ponzi scheme operating under the nose of MAS until it is too late, Hyflux bonds, why save others but not Noble, etc. Saving accounts are giving almost nothing in return.

 

Why sudden need to tax capital gain on HDB (grassroot) when we did away estate duty (rich)? 

 

Some may argue that grassroots are milking the system, then we also need to question why government bailing out private enterprise in so many creativity ways. You believe every politicians is a Mother Teresa? You believe all company contribute or donate to country without wanting or hoping for something in return.

 

For those who feel righteous, how about they honestly provide genuine tax returns or pay more taxes on top of what they already paying as National Service to the country.

 

It is not an easy question to answer but the more important question is it appropriate to ask or seek answer now when it already made clear that HDB would become zero after 99 years.

 

If it is not illegal let others earn or make some money. Don't be green eyes.

 

You all believe there is no illegal inside trading every day. If you believe then you also believe that you will see be in parliament soon.

[Beregond]

8 hours ago, Ct3833 said:

it is a supply and demand problem, as long as HDB does not build sufficient housing, HDB price will continue to go up. At the end of the day, the tax will be loaded into the selling price, meaning  to the buyers,  IRAS will be the sole beneficiary. Next is HDB price will move up by the tax value minimally.  HDB itself is also inducing the problem,  price of new flat continue to go up, how can the price of old flats stay flat ? 

dont believe  just look across the causeway, they have  many apartment in excess, see their property price go up  like HDB one or not. 

actually no.

hdb case is not a supply and demand issue, its a policy issue.

if hdb themself dun make a huge profit by selling bto 5 room for example at 700k, the price wont go up no matter what. i dun believe the building cost plus material cost of a 5 room need 500-700k? its quite bullsh--. the land belong to the gov. how much profit hdb themself rack up already .

is the purpose of hdb selling flat to citizen to make money for income?? i dun think it should be that way.

so if HDB  is making millions of profits selling flats to the citizen, then they got no excuse or reason to prevent the ppl from selling the flat again to make more profit. thats why the price will keep rising.

imagine those kids now in seconday school, when the day come they want to get a bto, how much would it cost?? i really hope the wages rise is enough to cope with the living cost rise.

[Kopites]

5 minutes ago, Beregond said:

actually no.

hdb case is not a supply and demand issue, its a policy issue.

if hdb themself dun make a huge profit by selling bto 5 room for example at 700k, the price wont go up no matter what. i dun believe the building cost plus material cost of a 5 room need 500-700k? its quite bullsh--. the land belong to the gov. how much profit hdb themself rack up already .

is the purpose of hdb selling flat to citizen to make money for income?? i dun think it should be that way.

so if HDB  is making millions of profits selling flats to the citizen, then they got no excuse or reason to prevent the ppl from selling the flat again to make more profit. thats why the price will keep rising.

imagine those kids now in seconday school, when the day come they want to get a bto, how much would it cost?? i really hope the wages rise is enough to cope with the living cost rise.

Hdb claimed they are making losses due to the ever inflating land prices.

URA claimed land scare singapore need to strike a balance between land for commercial and residential usage.

MND claimed the shifting of singapore demographics will impact result the allocation of land.

😄🤗 Ghost and God the same person.

 

[t0y0ta]

9 minutes ago, Beregond said:

actually no.

hdb case is not a supply and demand issue, its a policy issue.

if hdb themself dun make a huge profit by selling bto 5 room for example at 700k, the price wont go up no matter what. i dun believe the building cost plus material cost of a 5 room need 500-700k? its quite bullsh--. the land belong to the gov. how much profit hdb themself rack up already .

is the purpose of hdb selling flat to citizen to make money for income?? i dun think it should be that way.

so if HDB  is making millions of profits selling flats to the citizen, then they got no excuse or reason to prevent the ppl from selling the flat again to make more profit. thats why the price will keep rising.

imagine those kids now in seconday school, when the day come they want to get a bto, how much would it cost?? i really hope the wages rise is enough to cope with the living cost rise.

HDB/Govt does not lose actual money making HDB or BTO. 

They claim lose money on paper because they will compare the returns from each flat making 700k versus the entire plot hypothetically build a casino or shopping center (Vivocity type). Then they will say they lose "opportunity cost" money.

[Beregond]

8 minutes ago, Kopites said:

Hdb claimed they are making losses due to the ever inflating land prices.

URA claimed land scare singapore need to strike a balance between land for commercial and residential usage.

MND claimed the shifting of singapore demographics will impact result the allocation of land.

😄🤗 Ghost and God the same person.

 

i dun know how they count or base on what theory they making lost.

the land belong to the gov. so the gov charge hdb a huge sum for the land??? then hdb charge the citizen and say they got no choice, land is expensive?? i feel this is crab??

hdb is a private company or a gov branch?? 

Edited June 30, 2021 by Beregond

[Beregond]

2 minutes ago, t0y0ta said:

HDB/Govt does not lose actual money making HDB or BTO. 

They claim lose money on paper because they will compare the returns from each flat making 700k versus the entire plot hypothetically build a casino or shopping center (Vivocity type). Then they will say they lose "opportunity cost" money.

i dun know if they really say this. if really so, they change the whole  purpose why HDB was started last time.

maybe they want lead sg toward a different direction. i dun know . lol

[Wt_know]

5 minutes ago, Beregond said:

i dun know if they really say this. if really so, they change the whole  purpose why HDB was started last time.

maybe they want lead sg toward a different direction. i dun know . lol

hdb lost $2.6B …  …. or is it  

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/housing/housing-programmes-see-hdbs-deficit-grow-to-266b-the-highest-so-far

sinkie should STOP buying BTO ... the more people buy BTO ... the larger the deficit ....

buy private condo ... huat ah!

Edited June 30, 2021 by Wt_know