Nolicense Turbocharged October 8, 2021 Share October 8, 2021 whilst the news on tsmc and sammy is rather unexpected, under the theme of the trade war, it is the logical step. looks like tsmc and sammy are in for a hard time. politics aside, the data is trade secret and bodes ill for private business. https://www.scmp.com/tech/tech-war/article/3151347/us-demand-chip-supply-data-tsmc-samsung-apple-others-sparks-debate some say if china invade taiwan, tsmc is the safest place to be. but now tsmc has to invest 100bil in a new us plant. so basically taiwan is worthless without tsmc? getting rather interesting now this game. ↡ Advertisement 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolicense Turbocharged October 8, 2021 Author Share October 8, 2021 @kobayashiGT can you change this out of car related discussion? unless the chips go to car production, then yes this is car related discussion. lol 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watwheels Supersonic October 8, 2021 Share October 8, 2021 So means what? COE prices will continue to climb? Demand for cars go up but dont have enough microchips to go into new cars. This is our only main concern. Smart devices, game consoles and laptops I think continue to use the old ones should be no issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToyotaShuttle 5th Gear October 8, 2021 Share October 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Nolicense said: @kobayashiGT can you change this out of car related discussion? unless the chips go to car production, then yes this is car related discussion. lol lol. you never read the headlines of your own link? // The US Commerce Department has asked for supply chain data from tech giants and carmakers, including TSMC, Intel, Samsung, Apple, Microsoft, Daimler and BMW // 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolicense Turbocharged October 8, 2021 Author Share October 8, 2021 59 minutes ago, Watwheels said: So means what? COE prices will continue to climb? Demand for cars go up but dont have enough microchips to go into new cars. This is our only main concern. Smart devices, game consoles and laptops I think continue to use the old ones should be no issue. most cars still use older chips. funny that they ask tsmc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolicense Turbocharged October 8, 2021 Author Share October 8, 2021 5 minutes ago, ToyotaShuttle said: lol. you never read the headlines of your own link? // The US Commerce Department has asked for supply chain data from tech giants and carmakers, including TSMC, Intel, Samsung, Apple, Microsoft, Daimler and BMW // small proportion of the chips tsmc and sammy make go to cars. but they are asked for all their data. very sus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sosaria Turbocharged October 9, 2021 Share October 9, 2021 Am very surprised PRC has not managed to grow their domestic semiconductor industry to be able to match up to at the very least, the Taiwanese. Same same chinese people, same drive and work ethic. How come still need to depend on chip production from outside? No doubt, advanced chip-making depends a lot on the production equipment which are mainly from Japanese or US manufacturers, but same thing here, if PRC can grow their semicon industry, they will also soon have leading production equipment companies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
inlinesix Supersonic October 9, 2021 Share October 9, 2021 3 minutes ago, Sosaria said: Am very surprised PRC has not managed to grow their domestic semiconductor industry to be able to match up to at the very least, the Taiwanese. Same same chinese people, same drive and work ethic. How come still need to depend on chip production from outside? No doubt, advanced chip-making depends a lot on the production equipment which are mainly from Japanese or US manufacturers, but same thing here, if PRC can grow their semicon industry, they will also soon have leading production equipment companies. ASML can’t sell EUV machine to China. How to grow? TSMC, Samsung and Intel rely on ASML. 1 year, ASML only produce 50 machines 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolicense Turbocharged October 9, 2021 Author Share October 9, 2021 21 minutes ago, Sosaria said: Am very surprised PRC has not managed to grow their domestic semiconductor industry to be able to match up to at the very least, the Taiwanese. Same same chinese people, same drive and work ethic. How come still need to depend on chip production from outside? No doubt, advanced chip-making depends a lot on the production equipment which are mainly from Japanese or US manufacturers, but same thing here, if PRC can grow their semicon industry, they will also soon have leading production equipment companies. its very knowledge intensive, standards based and dependent on economy of scale due to very low margins on some products. in 1980s dram market. toshiba grew very big and intel nearly bankrupted. us entrapped toshiba engineers selling them dram tech. then charged them. they slapped sanctions on toshiba. gave the dram standard to sammy and killed toshiba. theres a vid somewhere that explains this in detail. however japan still has the market for chemicals in semicon. read carl zeiss, asml, nikon all non us companies are the only few equipment companies. if prc cant buy from them, it will take decades to grow their own asml and nikon. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sosaria Turbocharged October 9, 2021 Share October 9, 2021 3 hours ago, inlinesix said: ASML can’t sell EUV machine to China. How to grow? TSMC, Samsung and Intel rely on ASML. 1 year, ASML only produce 50 machines Not sure about photolitho machines but I worked on other semicon equipment before. Basically are mechatronic systems, pick n place, vacuum, high temp, on/off gases and chemicals, add rf or microwave, etc. Combination of these things. Should be do-able. It's the recipes to make these chips that are the show-stopper but then am surprised espionage cannot get hold of these when even military secrets are leaked. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
inlinesix Supersonic October 9, 2021 Share October 9, 2021 1 minute ago, Sosaria said: Not sure about photolitho machines but I worked on other semicon equipment before. Basically are mechatronic systems, pick n place, vacuum, high temp, on/off gases and chemicals, add rf or microwave, etc. Combination of these things. Should be do-able. It's the recipes to make these chips that are the show-stopper but then am surprised espionage cannot get hold of these when even military secrets are leaked. Even with the availability of photolithography machine, the chemical used to print the wafer is not a knowledge easily accessible. In 2019, a new wafer fab was set up in Wuhan. The company went bankrupt in 2021. Only SMIC has the scale and know how. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kangadrool Supersonic October 9, 2021 Share October 9, 2021 Cars using very old fashion chips which are more expensive. If car manufacturers are open to change, using newer chips, am sure they will have easier access and cheaperer price. Need to re-program everything though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mkl22 Twincharged October 10, 2021 Share October 10, 2021 It’s the whole eco system. Not so easy. Like the rest mentioned, it’s the equipment, the chemicals and adherence to processes. Typical China business all want the quick buck. Unless the govt pumps in a lot of money and no one in the chain “cheats”. Then maybe can be successful. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasyGoing 2nd Gear October 11, 2021 Share October 11, 2021 @Sosaria military personnel poorly paid so easy to bribe/blackmail but private companies top people very well paid so not as easy to bribe. only blackmail may work. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasyGoing 2nd Gear October 11, 2021 Share October 11, 2021 @happy_man be realistic man, Britain and now the USA are the world's biggest thugs since the whites invaded all the black man's land. So what is new. ↡ Advertisement Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now