Kia Seltos vs Citroen C4

[Maddriver]

Having owned one 2015 C4 pica diesel, one 2007 berlingo and one 2007 partner, will i choose another citroen or peu. For the price, safety and comfort, i will buy another citroen if any model catches my eye. Any problem with their cars? yeah the usual wear and tear which can be solved by a specialist. Downside is C&C servicing is ex after warranty and only 2 or 3 so called 3rd party citroen specialist wkshop.. No other major issues or repair that i need to fork out 1K or more during my ownership.

I do see both berlingo (current owner staying near me) and partner otr, guess is already 15 years having renewed once COE. To each of his own preference ya..

[Fat_slayer]

Having driven 2 Citroen in the past; C4GP in 2009 and C5 Exclusive in 2011, 1 after another, i will have no qualms to buy Citroen if i am looking for cars in these range.  They are super comfy, full of gadgets and a joy to drive (Toyota and Honda can stand 1 corner 😀).  Yes, the C4GP was in workshop for about 2 weeks due to faulty pump but i was provided with a replacement car during that period.  The C5 did not have any problem for the 2 years of ownership. 

The icing on the cake was that whenever, i went for servicing, the SA was able to recognize me and greet me by my name.  Very personal touch unlike those that i experienced in other places...  These are real life Citroen ownership experience, not hear-say.

[Freeder]

The New C4 side view looks really like GLC Coupe alas the tail lights ..

Will go down and take a look soon 😉

Any good SE to intro?

 

[teomingern]

On 2/17/2022 at 10:47 AM, Beregond said:

Got warranty dun need scare, french, italy 敢敢買。

Only when those warranty finish and the repair start to pop up, then the owner will really get to know the smell french make😁

Got warranty so what? If spend half the time in the workshop is also no use if give you 10 year comprehensive warranty... the last C4, my former boss drive for 6 or 7 years... on average spends one week a year in authorized dealer's workshop... he says that's the price of driving a continental brand, drive is good and he's happy with it... but then he changed to a VW Golf... you say leh? Ha ha...

[teomingern]

On 2/17/2022 at 11:00 AM, Hamburger said:

I concur with what you posted. 

I used to own a C4 of last 2 gen and yes, it does has its nitty gritty short comings. But nevertheless a fine car and less boring. 

I know someone who drives a pug for 6yrs with the pure tech 1.2L and all is good and happy with his purchase. 

Do I have faith in present French car, discounting Renault?? The answer is yes. 

 

Hey hey bro... I must depend Renault... my dad drives a Megane with diesel engine... as reliable as on Hyundai Sonata leh... only need to change aircon cooling coil cos smelly and got cooling gas smell...

[teomingern]

On 2/17/2022 at 12:21 PM, Mkl22 said:

maybe you can share what the nitty gritty are.

There were some in the VW camp who said that 100k km overhaul of piston and piston rings are acceptable wear and tear. 😁

I mean seriously is that a common issue? If so it's quite shocking...

[Watwheels]

There was a period whereby audi/vw cars have been burning excessive engine oil due to the wrong type of piston rings used. When the burnt oil turn into ash and mix with the rest of the engine oil and petrol vapour they turn into sludge and clogged the entire engine ending up in a catastrophic failure. The car maker knew about this and didnt make any recalls until much later.

Whenever what brand what car model start burning excessive oil the cars are using unsuited piston rings. In the past car owners dunno and were told "it is like that" by AD workshops. Imo thinking back it is horrible what they did. Heng I never own any vag cars before.

[teomingern]

3 hours ago, Watwheels said:

There was a period whereby audi/vw cars have been burning excessive engine oil due to the wrong type of piston rings used. When the burnt oil turn into ash and mix with the rest of the engine oil and petrol vapour they turn into sludge and clogged the entire engine ending up in a catastrophic failure. The car maker knew about this and didnt make any recalls until much later.

Whenever what brand what car model start burning excessive oil the cars are using unsuited piston rings. In the past car owners dunno and were told "it is like that" by AD workshops. Imo thinking back it is horrible what they did. Heng I never own any vag cars before.

But it seems like it still happens for German cars based on anecdotal feedback... even BMW cars seem to consume engine oil? Is that still true now?

[DOBIEMKZ]

26 minutes ago, teomingern said:

But it seems like it still happens for German cars based on anecdotal feedback... even BMW cars seem to consume engine oil? Is that still true now?

Yes for my boss family's E90 3-series (5th gen) and F30 3-series (6th gen).
A few years into his E90 3-series, engine oil issue. 
Sold it off and changed to the next gen F30 30-series, same issue.
Gave up and sold it off as well.
Changed to Lexus NX instead.

[Watwheels]

30 minutes ago, teomingern said:

But it seems like it still happens for German cars based on anecdotal feedback... even BMW cars seem to consume engine oil? Is that still true now?

Yes. When the wrong type of piston ring is used it will burn engine oil excessively. Turbochargers are water and oil cooled. So it may also burn oil when it gets too hot. But the wrong type of piston rings used is most jialat. Look at the end of the exhaust. If can see smoke it is a problem.

If piston ring install in the wrong groove also will burn oil. So have to look at what is wrong to see what is burning so much oil. German cars like bmw are known for leaks because they use plastic parts for the engine cooling system. If that happens the engine will overheat and burn oil. Overheat will also cause excessive fuel consumption. The ecu will inject more petrol to cool the engine if it overheats.

[Nashaz]

On 6/5/2022 at 11:04 AM, Freeder said:

The New C4 side view looks really like GLC Coupe alas the tail lights ..

Will go down and take a look soon 😉

Any good SE to intro?

 

 

I think you'll enjoy the experience of the range of vehicles there even if you don't get one, 

 

Agnes had assisted me during my time there and was quite helpful, just let her know the person who got the first red C4 provided the recommendation, she will know who it is ahha 

[Nashaz]

@teomingern I believe Renault in recent years used Mercedes engines (which they have openly been touting on their Captur) hence the improved reliability as opposed to the past Renault models 

Edited June 10, 2022 by Nashaz

[Mkl22]

29 minutes ago, Nashaz said:

@teomingern I believe Renault in recent years used Mercedes engines (which they have openly been touting on their Captur) hence the improved reliability as opposed to the past Renault models 

I think you are mistaken. It’s the other way round. Mercedes’ has been using crappy Renault engines. 

[teomingern]

8 hours ago, Watwheels said:

Yes. When the wrong type of piston ring is used it will burn engine oil excessively. Turbochargers are water and oil cooled. So it may also burn oil when it gets too hot. But the wrong type of piston rings used is most jialat. Look at the end of the exhaust. If can see smoke it is a problem.

If piston ring install in the wrong groove also will burn oil. So have to look at what is wrong to see what is burning so much oil. German cars like bmw are known for leaks because they use plastic parts for the engine cooling system. If that happens the engine will overheat and burn oil. Overheat will also cause excessive fuel consumption. The ecu will inject more petrol to cool the engine if it overheats.

Pay so much then use plastic for engine parts? Really? Engine block can reach a few hundred degrees...

[Nashaz]

@teomingern the use of plastic parts is fairgame in any of the manufacturers, however it's the type of plastics that is used. Granted I've observed that Korean and Japanese plastics are actually of high quality (simplified explanation) then the continental counterparts and that they last much better in the warm and humid conditions here in Singapore as opposed to conti countries which have dry/lower uv and cooler weather. 

As for the engine block operating temperature, the average temperature of the engine block is 90-95degree celsius, only the pistons are exposed to 250-300 degrees C of which the heat dissipates away though the water cooled engine block. The plastics surrounding the engine block are usually not subjected to those temperatures. 

However, in the baking heat of the singapore sun in the middle of traffic jams, the plastics can become exposed to very high heat levels (past the designed operating range) which would then lead to failures over repeated/prolonged period of time

[teomingern]

4 hours ago, Nashaz said:

@teomingern the use of plastic parts is fairgame in any of the manufacturers, however it's the type of plastics that is used. Granted I've observed that Korean and Japanese plastics are actually of high quality (simplified explanation) then the continental counterparts and that they last much better in the warm and humid conditions here in Singapore as opposed to conti countries which have dry/lower uv and cooler weather. 

As for the engine block operating temperature, the average temperature of the engine block is 90-95degree celsius, only the pistons are exposed to 250-300 degrees C of which the heat dissipates away though the water cooled engine block. The plastics surrounding the engine block are usually not subjected to those temperatures. 

However, in the baking heat of the singapore sun in the middle of traffic jams, the plastics can become exposed to very high heat levels (past the designed operating range) which would then lead to failures over repeated/prolonged period of time

BMW is a global company leh... to not engineer for temperatures way past standard operating procedures sounds like a serious lapse to me...

[theory_87]

For BMW engine, consuming engine oil is not necessary piston design fault. Most of the time is due to worn valve stem seal worn out. It typically last around 4 years in local climate before needing a replacement from my experience. 

[Nashaz]

@teomingern Yes you are not wrong, but the issue here is that car makers also have tweaks for region specific models, for example, RHD variants destined for the UK market vs the Australian market would be slightly different as users in the latter region will be exposed to one of the harshest climates in the world, of which manufacturers may increase the cooling capacity of the radiator / size up compressor power (air-con hp) / dustproofing/uv proofing etc to handle the difference in climates. 

In Singapore however, PI agents sometimes sell varients not meant for the region and these are some of the issues that can be encountered by some models and makes. I wouldn't really say that it's an oversight by the OEM if it was never designed for use in a specific location in the first place. If it was distributed by the AD and the issues are occurring directly from their region indented models then yes, it can constitute to design flaws by the OEM. 

 

But generally, German makes are extremely optimized varients of the technology and do well when preventive maintenance is adhered to by the book. They can kick up quite abit of fuss if operated out of the design range if left in stock configuration as the design of the components do not cater to nether regions of the operating threshold, as per say, Japanese and Korean makes which are not as optimized, but alot more robust with tolerances for additional wear and tear out of the operating conditions. 

Edited June 16, 2022 by Nashaz