EV battery life: real vs advertised

[Heartlander]

There is another video from Carwow that test out 3 EVs to see their range claim and how the cars brought itself to a stop when battery flat completely. Good for those keen to know more about EVs. 

 

[Stratovarius]

talked so much in the end say this:

However, the French reviewer also admitted that he used the AC heating and heated seats due to cool winter temperatures, which means that the Kia EV6 could in fact come a bit closer to its projected WLTP range of 328 miles at warmer temperatures.

 

[yishunite]

1 hour ago, Stratovarius said:

talked so much in the end say this:

However, the French reviewer also admitted that he used the AC heating and heated seats due to cool winter temperatures, which means that the Kia EV6 could in fact come a bit closer to its projected WLTP range of 328 miles at warmer temperatures.

 

Is heating more battery use than ac?

Cos I know when I drove in ang moh country never use AC just fan at min to circulate or window down if not on highway... thats why idk the paper range base on what

[Stratovarius]

21 minutes ago, yishunite said:

Is heating more battery use than ac?

Cos I know when I drove in ang moh country never use AC just fan at min to circulate or window down if not on highway... thats why idk the paper range base on what

ICE heater works differently compared to EV. ICE just use the heat from the engine to warm the cabin. Not sure about EV though. EV will either use a heating coil which generally consumes alot of power or direct the heat from the battery to the cabin. But i think battery heat is not sufficient to do that. 

Also, battery tends to lose its charge faster in colder climate. 

[DOBIEMKZ]

6 hours ago, Heartlander said:

There is another video from Carwow that test out 3 EVs to see their range claim and how the cars brought itself to a stop when battery flat completely. Good for those keen to know more about EVs. 

 

From the video summary, it seems that the % of range achieved by those EVs are generally about the same as those of ICEVs' real-world fuel consumption vs factory-quoted figures. Lastly on the video I saw that charging that Kia EV from a level 1 charger on the rescue van would take a whopping 37 hours plus till full charge! 
And it also seems that when the displayed remaining ranges of those EVs show zero, it is literally zero range left.
For some ICEVs which I have driven when their displayed estimated show zero, those vehs still have about 5 to 10% fuel left.

[Heartlander]

1 hour ago, DOBIEMKZ said:

From the video summary, it seems that the % of range achieved by those EVs are generally about the same as those of ICEVs' real-world fuel consumption vs factory-quoted figures. Lastly on the video I saw that charging that Kia EV from a level 1 charger on the rescue van would take a whopping 37 hours plus till full charge! 
And it also seems that when the displayed remaining ranges of those EVs show zero, it is literally zero range left.
For some ICEVs which I have driven when their displayed estimated show zero, those vehs still have about 5 to 10% fuel left.

The Kia driven by Matt could still run for 13 miles after battery showed 0%, which is furthest among the vehicles when flat. This type is definitely not for those with range anxiety. 

[awhtc]

We are going to end up with a lot of battery waste after a few more years.

I suppose an EV battery replacement will cost more than $10k and the charging time is simply too long.  I don't think EV is for me.

A hybrid is more cost-effective and convenient especially for driving in Malaysia.  I will just renew my current hybrid car's COE when it expires.

[Rm2s]

3 hours ago, awhtc said:

We are going to end up with a lot of battery waste after a few more years.

I suppose an EV battery replacement will cost more than $10k and the charging time is simply too long.  I don't think EV is for me.

A hybrid is more cost-effective and convenient especially for driving in Malaysia.  I will just renew my current hybrid car's COE when it expires.

Aren't hybrids also has battery replacement issue?

[Heartlander]

1 hour ago, Rm2s said:

Aren't hybrids also has battery replacement issue?

Hybrid uses much smaller batteries and cost think can get for $3k.

To add on, EV batteries in hybrid only come to a few KWh, comparing to > 50KWh for EV cars. Cost definitely not at same level.

Edited March 30, 2022 by Heartlander

[inlinesix]

7 hours ago, awhtc said:

We are going to end up with a lot of battery waste after a few more years.

I suppose an EV battery replacement will cost more than $10k and the charging time is simply too long.  I don't think EV is for me.

A hybrid is more cost-effective and convenient especially for driving in Malaysia.  I will just renew my current hybrid car's COE when it expires.

We will end up with a lot of battery waste due to COE.

At a minimum, batteries don't suffer degradation up to 100k MILES.

[Wolfverine]

Cant find another thread but curious on the POVs of Singapore EV drivers.

Unlike in other countries where more people have a garage to install a home AC charger, I believe most EV drivers here will have to rely on public chargers to charge  their EVs and more often than not utilizing the DC fast charge on a regular basis to save time. Read various articles online with conflicting views as to whether DC fast charge will have adverse effect on the battery life and curious to hear views especially with more advance battery technology these days.

[inlinesix]

4 hours ago, Wolfverine said:

Cant find another thread but curious on the POVs of Singapore EV drivers.

Unlike in other countries where more people have a garage to install a home AC charger, I believe most EV drivers here will have to rely on public chargers to charge  their EVs and more often than not utilizing the DC fast charge on a regular basis to save time. Read various articles online with conflicting views as to whether DC fast charge will have adverse effect on the battery life and curious to hear views especially with more advance battery technology these days.

I don’t own EV.

Most of DC fast charger overseas are > 100kwh.

In Singapore, our DC fast charger are 50kwh.

Significantly less damaging than overseas DC Fast charger

[Wolfverine]

1 hour ago, inlinesix said:

I don’t own EV.

Most of DC fast charger overseas are > 100kwh.

In Singapore, our DC fast charger are 50kwh.

Significantly less damaging than overseas DC Fast charger

thanks @inlinesix - intention wasn't meant to just restrict to EV drivers and happy to hear feedback from anyone 😀!

What you mentioned is also what I was thinking - i.e. it will be a relative comparison. Ideal will be AC charging but at the expense of speed and thus for those without the facilities for overnight (longer duration) AC charging at home/work, the alternative will have to be DC charging.

Not having AC charging facilities is a real challenge not just in Singapore but basically for people living in apartments or inner-urban homes without driveways/garages. Just hope that the less powerful DC chargers together with the more advanced battery cooling systems will alleviate issues such as the degradation of batteries.

[inlinesix]

12 minutes ago, Wolfverine said:

thanks @inlinesix - intention wasn't meant to just restrict to EV drivers and happy to hear feedback from anyone 😀!

What you mentioned is also what I was thinking - i.e. it will be a relative comparison. Ideal will be AC charging but at the expense of speed and thus for those without the facilities for overnight (longer duration) AC charging at home/work, the alternative will have to be DC charging.

Not having AC charging facilities is a real challenge not just in Singapore but basically for people living in apartments or inner-urban homes without driveways/garages. Just hope that the less powerful DC chargers together with the more advanced battery cooling systems will alleviate issues such as the degradation of batteries.

Ioniq 5 max charge at 233kw.
At 50kw, unlikely it will make battery hot.

In addition, all EV has 10% buffer. Most EV owner in Singapore will not feel battery degrading over the life of COE.

In Paris, there are some road side charging station.

Just like BlueSG charging station

[Wolfverine]

3 hours ago, inlinesix said:

Ioniq 5 max charge at 233kw.
At 50kw, unlikely it will make battery hot.

In addition, all EV has 10% buffer. Most EV owner in Singapore will not feel battery degrading over the life of COE.

In Paris, there are some road side charging station.

Just like BlueSG charging station

"Most EV owner in Singapore will not feel battery degrading over the life of COE." - this is so uniquely Singapore 🤣

[Vratenza]

On 5/15/2022 at 7:19 PM, inlinesix said:

Ioniq 5 max charge at 233kw.
At 50kw, unlikely it will make battery hot.

In addition, all EV has 10% buffer. Most EV owner in Singapore will not feel battery degrading over the life of COE.

In Paris, there are some road side charging station.

Just like BlueSG charging station

Have this statement taken into account the hot and humid equatorial climate when it comes to hot ambient operating temperature of the battery and while charging. During operation of the EV, our climate forces us to turn on the aircon and work the aircon harder (correspondingly more strain on the battery) than EV drivers in temperate countries.

Heat kills battery life and range.

[inlinesix]

1 hour ago, Vratenza said:

Have this statement taken into account the hot and humid equatorial climate when it comes to hot ambient operating temperature of the battery and while charging. During operation of the EV, our climate forces us to turn on the aircon and work the aircon harder (correspondingly more strain on the battery) than EV drivers in temperate countries.

Heat kills battery life and range.

EV has efficient cooling system.

In fact, it is cold that kills the range.

[Vratenza]

25 minutes ago, inlinesix said:

EV has efficient cooling system.

In fact, it is cold that kills the range.

Maybe I am not a technological expert in EV but from the schematic of a Tesla 3 cooling system, it is still base on liquid coolant cooling system that is similar to ICE.

All the massive amount of heat generated is dependent on a single radiator in front and probably heavily dependent on a set of radiator fan(s) to force air over the radiator fins to remove the heat from the system. That seem to be a single point of failure that is not unique to EV or even ICE vehicle. 

I disagree that cold kills the battery, cold only temporarily reduce the efficiency of the battery capacity (eg. when I bring my samsung galaxy note to Hokkaido during winter, a full charge of battery last me only 70% on the previously known battery life, but when I came back from the trip, my phone is back to normal.)

Heat on the other hand will permanently reduce the lifespan and capacity of any batteries.