Why Electric Cars Won't Save Us

[BanCoe]

On 4/20/2022 at 4:31 PM, Didu said:

Govt's target state is 10min walk to nearest train station from anywhere on the island. I don't see that yet. 

Hmmm ……… 10 mins ….. from PMO office Istana ?? How ??🤣

[Jamesc]

Ok everyone has convinced me electric cars won't save us.

I will just stick to petrol cars 

[Didu]

I've a feeling Musk really don't like this guy.  😁

This talk will challenge the popular perception that Battery Electric Vehicles (BEVs) are environmentally friendly, and will argue that we are inappropriately rushing the market introduction of these vehicles. BEVs are commonly sold under the guise of being ‘Zero Emissions,’ an assertion that is not true by any definition. Brake pads produce emissions, as do tires and even interiors under sunlight. The electricity that powers BEVs is generated by power plants, 64% of which burn fossil fuels in the U.S.—fossil fuels that contribute to greenhouse gas emissions and global warming. Even more importantly, there are significant CO2 emissions created during the manufacture of the battery pack, meaning that in order to offset the carbon created during the production process, a BEV must drive 40,000 - 100,000 miles before being environmentally comparable to a gasoline-powered vehicle. Hybrid vehicles, on the other hand, which combine much smaller batteries with efficient internal combustion engines, have been shown to be a much better option for lowering global CO2. Unfortunately, they do not receive the same marketable ‘kudos’ or policy backing as full BEVs. We are headed down the wrong path by rolling out BEVs before making the manufacturing and electricity generation CO2 neutral. Dr. Graham Conway is a Principal Engineer in the Automotive Division at Southwest Research Institute. For the last ten years he has been immersed in evaluating automotive technologies and consulting for car companies and suppliers. This gives him unique insights and perspectives on the industry. He is passionate about making vehicles more efficient to ensure the future of the planet and has a message to share about some common misconceptions about electric and non-electric vehicles.

 

[Actan72]

i do believe EV is not going to save the earth... let's not waste time...

[inlinesix]

What we believe is NOT important.

The world is moving towards EV, especially PRC.

PRC is the biggest exporter of EV.

[bsswan]

On 6/5/2023 at 4:41 PM, inlinesix said:

What we believe is NOT important.

The world is moving towards EV, especially PRC.

PRC is the biggest exporter of EV.

That's what happens when you buy heavy metals from child miners in Africa for a few cents per kilo.

[Kb27]

what will save us ?

ironically, another COVID type of pandemic.

nobody moves, nobody works, the sky will clean up, pollution gone, nature reclaim lost land.

[Voodooman]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikescott/2020/03/30/yes-electric-cars-are-cleaner-even-when-the-power-comes-from-coal/amp/

A new study by the universities of Exeter and Cambridge in the UK and Nijmegen in the Netherlands has concluded that electric cars lead to lower carbon emissions overall, even if electricity generation still relies on fossil fuels. The results are reported in the journal Nature Sustainability.

 

 Who to believe? 

[t0y0ta]

On 8/16/2023 at 4:43 PM, Voodooman said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikescott/2020/03/30/yes-electric-cars-are-cleaner-even-when-the-power-comes-from-coal/amp/

A new study by the universities of Exeter and Cambridge in the UK and Nijmegen in the Netherlands has concluded that electric cars lead to lower carbon emissions overall, even if electricity generation still relies on fossil fuels. The results are reported in the journal Nature Sustainability.

 

 Who to believe? 

Does it take into account the environment wasteland created by the lithium, cobalt and nickel mines?

Does it take into account the need to process or dump the unwanted spoilt batteries from 10yo EVs?

[Voodooman]

On 8/16/2023 at 6:47 PM, t0y0ta said:

Does it take into account the environment wasteland created by the lithium, cobalt and nickel mines?

Does it take into account the need to process or dump the unwanted spoilt batteries from 10yo EVs?

Jialat, i should throw away my phone, i change it once every few years. 😂😂😂

And for renewable energy to work, especially solar (effectively replace fossil fuel), we will need more batteries, not less. How?

So perhaps status quo is best but that is also not an option. 

Think we need nuclear energy to refine raw materials into EV components if we really want to solve the problem in next 20-30 years.

[t0y0ta]

On 8/16/2023 at 8:01 PM, Voodooman said:

Jialat, i should throw away my phone, i change it once every few years. 😂😂😂

And for renewable energy to work, especially solar (effectively replace fossil fuel), we will need more batteries, not less. How?

So perhaps status quo is best but that is also not an option. 

Think we need nuclear energy to refine raw materials into EV components if we really want to solve the problem in next 20-30 years.

Humans and the human consumption needs are the root of the problem. We are like virus infecting and leeching the Earth.

So I find all the talk on ESG and saving env rather hypocritical. Those EV fans who keep saying EVs will save the Earth are the worst IMO

[Voodooman]

On 8/16/2023 at 8:10 PM, t0y0ta said:

Humans and the human consumption needs are the root of the problem. We are like virus infecting and leeching the Earth.

So I find all the talk on ESG and saving env rather hypocritical. Those EV fans who keep saying EVs will save the Earth are the worst IMO

Actually to help, just stop driving and eat less meats. 

I admit i can't give up my car and ribeye. 😂

[Beregond]

On 8/16/2023 at 8:01 PM, Voodooman said:

Jialat, i should throw away my phone, i change it once every few years. 😂😂😂

And for renewable energy to work, especially solar (effectively replace fossil fuel), we will need more batteries, not less. How?

So perhaps status quo is best but that is also not an option. 

Think we need nuclear energy to refine raw materials into EV components if we really want to solve the problem in next 20-30 years.

Ev alone certainly won't save the earth.

It's just part of the big effort to reduce carbon. We cannot be burning fuel forever.

There are zero recycling from burning of fuel,  battery can be recycle. Green energy can be use to charge eV.

If eV dun help the earth, why would EU be in such a hurry to phase out ICE. China also.

 

[bsswan]

On 8/16/2023 at 8:01 PM, Voodooman said:

Jialat, i should throw away my phone, i change it once every few years. 😂😂😂

And for renewable energy to work, especially solar (effectively replace fossil fuel), we will need more batteries, not less. How?

So perhaps status quo is best but that is also not an option. 

Think we need nuclear energy to refine raw materials into EV components if we really want to solve the problem in next 20-30 years.

I think with commitments and funding for SMR and AMR, such as that being developed my Rolls Royce (they already have a Contract/LoI type thing to supply units for powering a Moon base), until Fusion becomes a reality, we use that large increase in electrical supply for the production of Hydrogen instead of mining for heavy metals.

Better, and more localized recycling must be included and much of the world so far fails.

[kobayashiGT]

On 8/17/2023 at 12:02 AM, Beregond said:

Ev alone certainly won't save the earth.

It's just part of the big effort to reduce carbon. We cannot be burning fuel forever.

There are zero recycling from burning of fuel,  battery can be recycle. Green energy can be use to charge eV.

If eV dun help the earth, why would EU be in such a hurry to phase out ICE. China also.

 

money talk mah. hahaha. They see where got money, they will push for it. 

[bsswan]

 

[teomingern]

It's been obvious that it's completely unclear if EVs are cleaner than conventional cars. The total energy consumption and emissions must be calculated. Unfortunately to do so, we must have had EVs for at least 20 years to do the calculation. It will always be far behind the curve, by which time when we realize that EVs are more damaging than conventional cars, it's too late... we'll have billions of batteries that need to be dumped cos it's cheaper to do so than recycle.

The greatest culprits in conventional emissions are the huge trucks and SUVs... which unfortunately have become more popular around the world and in Singapore. Nobody spends money to reduce the weight of the vehicle and improve energy consumption efficiency... everybody wants 20 inch rims and huge wide tires with lots of glass around (increasing aircon use + dealers love to bring variants with glass roofs only) and even with the severe increase in fuel prices, I see more and more people leaving car engines idling in multi-storey car parks and they're just waiting and using their phones inside in Singapore.

How to save the Earth?

[Kklee]

On 8/16/2023 at 4:43 PM, Voodooman said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikescott/2020/03/30/yes-electric-cars-are-cleaner-even-when-the-power-comes-from-coal/amp/

A new study by the universities of Exeter and Cambridge in the UK and Nijmegen in the Netherlands has concluded that electric cars lead to lower carbon emissions overall, even if electricity generation still relies on fossil fuels. The results are reported in the journal Nature Sustainability.

 

 Who to believe? 

IMHO.
Based on internet research....

Toyota Corolla Hybrid CO2 emission runs from 98-111g/km
US electric generation by Natural Gas is 0.97 pounds per kWh which is about 440g per kWh.
BYD Claims the Atto 3's 60.5kWh battery will return at least 400km i.e. about 67g/km.

US electric generation by Coal is 2.26 pound per kWh and by Petroleum is 2.44 pound per kWh
About 154g/km (coal) and 168g/km (petroleum).

Thus depends on how the electricity is generated and also does range anxiety makes sense.
 

Note :  2014 Corolla Altis is about 150g/km

P.S.  Calculation and theory not verified.🤣

 

 

Edited September 6, 2023 by Kklee