COE Bidding - November 2022

[inlinesix]

3 minutes ago, mikk123 said:

30 years ago, how much is one bowl of fishball mee? I not clever lah, never receive any government scholarship to study in UK. But we have people who are very very clever right? who are also high paid to solve problem right? I never ask to scrap the COE lah. COE is also never a system that is only catered to the rich, right? then why create Cat A,B,E? just one system to bid on lah. Cat B is for the rich who drive BXX and MXX. Cat A is for the average citizen, correct? but if you look the price now, is it still work as intended? To make it worse, the peak supply years and low supply years, partly due to LTA error last time right? remember? they calculated wrongly.  COE system is to stay. But remove the fluctuation part of it by even out all the supply. 

I think your statement is outdated.

Even someone who drove Honda Shuttle now is aspired to drive BMW 216 (which has less power than shuttle).

With 1 system, confirm most middle class will BMW.

Currently, LTA want to even out the total car population rather than supply. That’s why supply is fluctuating. It is difficult to predict scrap.

[inlinesix]

Just now, Arogab said:

Super Low Middle Class, Lower Middle Class, Middle Class, Upper Middle Class, Super Upper Middle Class......Who are feeling the pain. 

All lah, even if you just pay, you will still feel pain one. Just how much pain only. Even Agong also feel pain

Agong doesn’t feel the pain. Tax free car😂

[Arogab]

Just now, inlinesix said:

Agong doesn’t feel the pain. Tax free car😂

Pain lah, if not why he kick out the CBK😂

[inlinesix]

2 minutes ago, mikk123 said:

not difficult to predict scarp. can drive a modern fuel efficient car, who wants to drive a 20 years old car? not to mention to frequent visit to workshop for all sort of wear and tear. car is a transport too lah. 

It is nonsense for regular visit to workshop.  Most of the time, it is itchy backside.

Fuel efficiency is a myth.

[Beehive3783]

55 minutes ago, mikk123 said:

30 years ago, how much is one bowl of fishball mee? I not clever lah, never receive any government scholarship to study in UK. But we have people who are very very clever right? who are also high paid to solve problem right? I never ask to scrap the COE lah. COE is also never a system that is only catered to the rich, right? then why create Cat A,B,E? just one system to bid on lah. Cat B is for the rich who drive BXX and MXX. Cat A is for the average citizen, correct? but if you look the price now, is it still work as intended? To make it worse, the peak supply years and low supply years, partly due to LTA error last time right? remember? they calculated wrongly.  COE system is to stay. But remove the fluctuation part of it by even out all the supply. 

I don't think anyone in the government cares anymore, as long as it's bringing in the monies. 

PAP is now a corporation, not public service entity.  

[Beehive3783]

26 minutes ago, mikk123 said:

not difficult to predict scarp. can drive a modern fuel efficient car, who wants to drive a 20 years old car? not to mention to frequent visit to workshop for all sort of wear and tear. car is a transport too lah. 

That's true, who would want to drive an old car if a new one is attainable?

Of course, exotics and JDM classics do not apply in this category  

[inlinesix]

18 minutes ago, Beehive3783 said:

I don't think anyone in the government cares anymore, as long as it's bringing in the monies. 

PAP is now a corporation, not public service entity.  

Since Day 1, Singapore has always been a CORPORATION.

In the good ole days, there are NO CSR.

Nowadays, at least still got some CSR.

[Ginyu]

3 hours ago, mikk123 said:

yes, everyone wants to make money. COE owner is not just someone leh. it is government leh. Government goal is make more money out of its citizen? 🤣

Sama sama la, goal is to make more money, they also price new public housing which is meant to be affordable at 700K 😂 

Edited December 1, 2022 by Ginyu

[Beehive3783]

1 minute ago, mikk123 said:

Public housing selling at 700k at prime area really can't blame govtment lah when those HDB selling at about 1m. They want to have a share of profit. 😁

agree. For majority of the car owner, CAR is just a tool. People new and better one. 

They can run like a company, but don't forget...stake holders have a right to choose the CEO once every 4 years lah 🤣 can't piss off the majority too much lah.

But there are many kum gong stakeholders leh....  

[Jamesc]

COE is not who pay more.

We all pay the same.

Actually it's the cheapest bid that we all pay.

Like one damn smart guy bid $2 and everyone else bid $40k but everybody at $2.

[Jamesc]

OMG I just defended COE and no one even paying me 50 cents.

Edited December 1, 2022 by Jamesc

[kelaihoyin]

Came across this paper published 28 years back. Although the system has since been "refined" a couple of times, but some of the pointers are still quite valid today. 

 A good weekend read. 

Quote

Political acceptability of the discriminatory auction

Although the discriminatory auction may be an improvement over the uniform-price COE auction in terms of equity, it is unlikely to be politically acceptable. Successful bidders may continue to feel unhappy under the discriminatory system because it is plain to see they are treated differently, although each bidder presumably placed a bid that he or she is willing to pay. This unhappiness would be compounded if a wealthy successful bidder paid a low price for a COE to buy a luxury car, while a less well-off successful bidder paid a much higher price to buy a small car (as was the case in the September 1992 auction when the COE prices for Category 3 cars plunged to S$1,500). Since the political acceptability of any government policy is measured by how it is perceived by the populace, the discriminatory auction is unlikely to pass this test.

 

Quote

A uniform-percentage COE auction: An alternative

We believe that an equitable COE auction should be a discriminatory one. To make it politically acceptable, successful bidders must perceive that they are treated equally. We believe that the COE auction could be modified to one where the bids are in percentage of the car price that one is willing to pay as the COE premium. Successful bidders pay the lowest percentage. In this sense, the system is a uniform-percentage system. The actual premium paid would be tied to the value of the car that the successful bidder buys, so the auction is at the same time discriminatory. In fact, since the COE premium is a tax, it should be a proportional tax, like the ARF and customs duties, which are, respectively, 150% and 45% of a car's OMV at present.

The uniform-percentage system is progressive, since buyers of more expensive cars are presumably those who could pay higher premiums. (A less well-off individual may have a greater urgency to own a car, but would have a lower ability to pay. Besides, in Singapore, he or she could always turn to public transportation.) Buyers and car dealers of smaller cars are not discriminated against. Furthermore, there is no need to have different categories since the original intention of that was to ensure that the premiums would be vaguely proportional to the value of the cars. In fact, by doing so again with different categories, it becomes harder for speculators or distributors to corner the market for COEs in Categories 3 and 4.

The proposed system is also politically acceptable. Although successful bidders pay different amounts of premiums, but as a proportion of the value of the car they purchase, everyone pays the same percentage. There would not be any ill feelings about paying different amounts, as in the discriminatory auction where bids are in dollar amounts.

https://ink.library.smu.edu.sg/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=4363&context=lkcsb_research

 

 

 

[Fcw75]

4 minutes ago, mikk123 said:

many got laid off because of this current situation. 

‘This is the worst I have seen in 20 years’: Quiet showrooms drive many car sales staff out of industry

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/this-is-the-worst-i-have-seen-in-20-years-quiet-showrooms-drive-many-car-sales-staff-out-of-industry

Mostly small car brand like Suzuki. 

$160K for a Jimny?

[inlinesix]

29 minutes ago, mikk123 said:

more interesting read.

SINGAPORE - There are around 471,000 households that own cars in Singapore, of which 12 per cent – or 56,520 – have two cars.

Less than 3 per cent of these households, or 14,130, own three cars or more.

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/12-per-cent-of-car-owning-households-in-singapore-have-2-cars-less-than-3-per-cent-own-3-or-more

I am more interested in type of household and district.

[13177]

28 minutes ago, mikk123 said:

many got laid off because of this current situation. 

‘This is the worst I have seen in 20 years’: Quiet showrooms drive many car sales staff out of industry

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/this-is-the-worst-i-have-seen-in-20-years-quiet-showrooms-drive-many-car-sales-staff-out-of-industry

Now car so ex, for those B&B cars showroom even no business. Who will want to pay $150k for a B&B car? 😅

[13177]

31 minutes ago, mikk123 said:

 

more interesting read.

SINGAPORE - There are around 471,000 households that own cars in Singapore, of which 12 per cent – or 56,520 – have two cars.

Less than 3 per cent of these households, or 14,130, own three cars or more.

 

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/politics/12-per-cent-of-car-owning-households-in-singapore-have-2-cars-less-than-3-per-cent-own-3-or-more

Households that have 2 cars or more quite common la, esp if family members staying together are all working adults. Example spouse each one own 1 car, and if have 2 kids, these 2 kids might also each one own 1 car. So this household maybe already have at least 3 cars liao.

[Ingenius]

I just came back from Bangkok. Their traffic situation there makes Singapore feels like heaven. 

[Fcw75]

18 minutes ago, 13177 said:

Households that have 2 cars or more quite common la, esp if family members staying together are all working adults. Example spouse each one own 1 car, and if have 2 kids, these 2 kids might also each one own 1 car. So this household maybe already have at least 3 cars liao.

Ya lor, your favourite Son of Everything said so.

In commenting about daily commute Dr Koh said, “Well, everybody has a car, we have two – my wife drives one, I drive one. We are both professionals, we need to travel”.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Fcw75