ICE Vehicles vs Electric Vehicles Savings

[Jtis]

I seriously don't know why so many people think that purchasing a Tesla equals supporting Elon Musk. We ought to differentiate between purchasing a company's product and the individual that controls the company. Its like buying an Apple product in the past, when it was clear that the late Steve Jobs wasn't a particularly nice person. For the record, I don't particularly like Elon Musk's egoistic behaviour, but the Telsa product is great, and more importantly the ongoing software optimisation and updates over the air after purchase is the most impt USP my opinion.

For example, i was really quite impressed from an engineering perspective by one of the latest upgrades in the latest software updates pushed down this week. To most ppl, it is a minor inconsequential thing but to me, i recognise that it is not easy to implement. Most cars nowadays have the 2 stage turn signal setting, flick lightly to keep the turn signal on for 3 blinks for lane change or flick firmly to keep the turn signal on until you deactivate it or after the steering wheel turning exceeds a certain degree and returns to centre thereafter. Some cars like my previous bimmer can customise and  'code' to have the turn signal to blink longer, eg 5 blinks, but the turn signal is really quite a standalone function. The latest tesla update seems to have combined the car inbuilt camera vision logic with the turn signal, so the turn signal stays on, until you complete the lane change and even smart enough to recognise the lane markings on the floor, to keep the signal lights on after you make a lane change if there is a left or right turn coming up. Imagine the software behind it!

I would be much less impressed if this feature already came with the car, but having it updated over the air is amazing, like the car is always being optimised after you purchased it. 

 

[Volvobrick]

24 minutes ago, Jtis said:

I seriously don't know why so many people think that purchasing a Tesla equals supporting Elon Musk. We ought to differentiate between purchasing a company's product and the individual that controls the company. Its like buying an Apple product in the past, when it was clear that the late Steve Jobs wasn't a particularly nice person. For the record, I don't particularly like Elon Musk's egoistic behaviour, but the Telsa product is great, and more importantly the ongoing software optimisation and updates over the air after purchase is the most impt USP my opinion.

For example, i was really quite impressed from an engineering perspective by one of the latest upgrades in the latest software updates pushed down this week. To most ppl, it is a minor inconsequential thing but to me, i recognise that it is not easy to implement. Most cars nowadays have the 2 stage turn signal setting, flick lightly to keep the turn signal on for 3 blinks for lane change or flick firmly to keep the turn signal on until you deactivate it or after the steering wheel turning exceeds a certain degree and returns to centre thereafter. Some cars like my previous bimmer can customise and  'code' to have the turn signal to blink longer, eg 5 blinks, but the turn signal is really quite a standalone function. The latest tesla update seems to have combined the car inbuilt camera vision logic with the turn signal, so the turn signal stays on, until you complete the lane change and even smart enough to recognise the lane markings on the floor, to keep the signal lights on after you make a lane change if there is a left or right turn coming up. Imagine the software behind it!

I would be much less impressed if this feature already came with the car, but having it updated over the air is amazing, like the car is always being optimised after you purchased it. 

 

Still needs finger to activate the turn signal so it is a useless feature as 90% of drivers here don't signal whether turning or changing lane. Waiting for Musk to improve his cars to be able to predict the intention of those fingerless drivers!

[inlinesix]

6 minutes ago, Volvobrick said:

Still needs finger to activate the turn signal so it is a useless feature as 90% of drivers here don't signal whether turning or changing lane. Waiting for Musk to improve his cars to be able to predict the intention of those fingerless drivers!

For cars with lane change assist, need to switch on signal before shift lane.

Otherwise, there will be huge resistance on the steering.

Of course, it can be switch off

[Jtis]

8 minutes ago, Volvobrick said:

Still needs finger to activate the turn signal so it is a useless feature as 90% of drivers here don't signal whether turning or changing lane. Waiting for Musk to improve his cars to be able to predict the intention of those fingerless drivers!

As I said, I know it is a small inconsequential enhancement to most ppl, but how the update incorporated other non traditional sources of input to a simple function after the car left the factory, the techie in me thought it is something very unprecedented, that no other car manufacturer have done.

[PSP415]

36 minutes ago, Jtis said:

I seriously don't know why so many people think that purchasing a Tesla equals supporting Elon Musk. We ought to differentiate between purchasing a company's product and the individual that controls the company. Its like buying an Apple product in the past, when it was clear that the late Steve Jobs wasn't a particularly nice person. For the record, I don't particularly like Elon Musk's egoistic behaviour, but the Telsa product is great, and more importantly the ongoing software optimisation and updates over the air after purchase is the most impt USP my opinion.

For example, i was really quite impressed from an engineering perspective by one of the latest upgrades in the latest software updates pushed down this week. To most ppl, it is a minor inconsequential thing but to me, i recognise that it is not easy to implement. Most cars nowadays have the 2 stage turn signal setting, flick lightly to keep the turn signal on for 3 blinks for lane change or flick firmly to keep the turn signal on until you deactivate it or after the steering wheel turning exceeds a certain degree and returns to centre thereafter. Some cars like my previous bimmer can customise and  'code' to have the turn signal to blink longer, eg 5 blinks, but the turn signal is really quite a standalone function. The latest tesla update seems to have combined the car inbuilt camera vision logic with the turn signal, so the turn signal stays on, until you complete the lane change and even smart enough to recognise the lane markings on the floor, to keep the signal lights on after you make a lane change if there is a left or right turn coming up. Imagine the software behind it!

I would be much less impressed if this feature already came with the car, but having it updated over the air is amazing, like the car is always being optimised after you purchased it. 

 

Thanks for sharing. 

Frankly, is it not the same way we sometimes receive software updates over the air for download to our laptops or mobile phones? 

Telsa has almost all its features controlled by software programmed in a mounted "laptop/computer" projected on a screen. 

One of my concern is if there's a major glitch, the car can be rendered inoperable or certain features (eg aircon) to be affected till the software is fixed.

I suppose the possibility is low but there is that tiny weeny nag in my bones. 

😅😂😂😂Yada-ing. 

Stay safe 

Cheers 

 

[inlinesix]

6 minutes ago, Jtis said:

As I said, I know it is a small inconsequential enhancement to most ppl, but how the update incorporated other non traditional sources of input to a simple function after the car left the factory, the techie in me thought it is something very unprecedented, that no other car manufacturer have done.

Switches in Mini R56 are also not traditional.

To switch off left signal, it can push up or down.

[D3badge]

On 11/20/2022 at 1:16 PM, Fitvip said:

That is the main point. Report says the certain petrol station is going to  incorporate charging points. How many spaces can they provide? 

A more convenient way could be battery swapping, provided all EV makers subscribe that.

On local scene, there is no guarantee that 3/4 charge sign will not be erected before the check points, like below.

 

Not only will all manufacturers subscribe to it, not all EV motor consume the same power, eg. A Hyundai EV VS Taycan. I believe Taycam consume and need more power from the battery. 
 

so mean you need lotsa different spec of batteries? Then you will always need to recharge every few days or week to keep the batteries full for the seldom use spec model? Like ultra high performance EV?

[inlinesix]

4 minutes ago, D3badge said:

Not only will all manufacturers subscribe to it, not all EV motor consume the same power, eg. A Hyundai EV VS Taycan. I believe Taycam consume and need more power from the battery. 

so mean you need lotsa different spec of batteries? Then you will always need to recharge every few days or week to keep the batteries full for the seldom use spec model? Like ultra high performance EV?

With battery swap, it will remove the ability to package battery in a way maximising interior space.

[Stratovarius]

1 hour ago, PSP415 said:

Thanks for sharing. 

Frankly, is it not the same way we sometimes receive software updates over the air for download to our laptops or mobile phones? 

Telsa has almost all its features controlled by software programmed in a mounted "laptop/computer" projected on a screen. 

One of my concern is if there's a major glitch, the car can be rendered inoperable or certain features (eg aircon) to be affected till the software is fixed.

I suppose the possibility is low but there is that tiny weeny nag in my bones. 

😅😂😂😂Yada-ing. 

Stay safe 

Cheers 

 

yeah to me is the same as OTA update on smartphones. EV uses electricity for moving and powering the internals. So with the much bigger batts than ICE, it is possible to do OTA update as long as there is a internet connection. ICE cars' small little batt will die very fast.

[inlinesix]

41 minutes ago, Stratovarius said:

yeah to me is the same as OTA update on smartphones. EV uses electricity for moving and powering the internals. So with the much bigger batts than ICE, it is possible to do OTA update as long as there is a internet connection. ICE cars' small little batt will die very fast.

EV runs 12v battery for in-car entertainment.

[Jtis]

4 hours ago, inlinesix said:

Switches in Mini R56 are also not traditional.

To switch off left signal, it can push up or down.

Not quite the same actually. I believe the turn signal is traditionally a standalone subsystem in cars from mainstream car manufacturers, and almost always provided from component suppliers. Pushing up and down is still a user initiated action. Everything associated with switching the turn signal off is either i) user initiated or ii) predetermined programmed logic ( I.e. 3 blinks or steering angle). Now it just seems kind of exciting to me that camera vision, which should be a separate subsystem, now appears to be the decision maker to turn off the turn signal signal based on real world conditions, not user or predetermined programme logic. Now, that is really integration between subsystems, completely different order of sophistication than the typical turn signal systems.

 

Actually in the world of consumer electronics, this sort of over the air update thing isn't new. But it certainly is new in the space of cars. As to why, there is already a lot of literature postulating why legacy car manufacturers are unable to do it, i.e. catalog engineering. However, I certainly hope tesla tests their software updates thoroughly, many ppl will understandably be very pissed if an update bricks their car. Already when server down, many ppl can't unlock their cars via their app..... hahaha...

[Shibadog]

is it really so difficult for a driver to manually turn on/off signals? 

i know you are coming from a techie POV but i think there are probably more important (read safety related) issues to work on. 

that being said, this cam-assisted off of the turn signal will be useful for autonomous vehicles, which was where it might have originated. 

just curious , how does the new turn signal function work in roundabouts?

[Ganwb79]

8 hours ago, Jtis said:

I seriously don't know why so many people think that purchasing a Tesla equals supporting Elon Musk. We ought to differentiate between purchasing a company's product and the individual that controls the company. Its like buying an Apple product in the past, when it was clear that the late Steve Jobs wasn't a particularly nice person. For the record, I don't particularly like Elon Musk's egoistic behaviour, but the Telsa product is great, and more importantly the ongoing software optimisation and updates over the air after purchase is the most impt USP my opinion.

For example, i was really quite impressed from an engineering perspective by one of the latest upgrades in the latest software updates pushed down this week. To most ppl, it is a minor inconsequential thing but to me, i recognise that it is not easy to implement. Most cars nowadays have the 2 stage turn signal setting, flick lightly to keep the turn signal on for 3 blinks for lane change or flick firmly to keep the turn signal on until you deactivate it or after the steering wheel turning exceeds a certain degree and returns to centre thereafter. Some cars like my previous bimmer can customise and  'code' to have the turn signal to blink longer, eg 5 blinks, but the turn signal is really quite a standalone function. The latest tesla update seems to have combined the car inbuilt camera vision logic with the turn signal, so the turn signal stays on, until you complete the lane change and even smart enough to recognise the lane markings on the floor, to keep the signal lights on after you make a lane change if there is a left or right turn coming up. Imagine the software behind it!

I would be much less impressed if this feature already came with the car, but having it updated over the air is amazing, like the car is always being optimised after you purchased it. 

 

Technical feat aside, is such a feature needed? Wats wrong with the original system that needed improving? Sometimes these "features" seem like additions for their own sake. 

Realize that OTA updates is a double edged sword. It is also possible for car manufacturers to restrict access to a feature update via a subscription paywall, or insist that you have to upgrade your car to the latest model to enjoy the latest software, just like our mobile phones today. 

[Volvobrick]

2 minutes ago, Ganwb79 said:

Technical feat aside, is such a feature needed? Wats wrong with the original system that needed improving? Sometimes these "features" seem like additions for their own sake. 

Realize that OTA updates is a double edged sword. It is also possible for car manufacturers to restrict access to a feature update via a subscription paywall, or insist that you have to upgrade your car to the latest model to enjoy the latest software, just like our mobile phones today. 

Some like electric door handle just add complications, costs, and reduces safety and reliability without making life easier.

 

[Jtis]

1 hour ago, Shibadog said:

is it really so difficult for a driver to manually turn on/off signals? 

i know you are coming from a techie POV but i think there are probably more important (read safety related) issues to work on. 

that being said, this cam-assisted off of the turn signal will be useful for autonomous vehicles, which was where it might have originated. 

just curious , how does the new turn signal function work in roundabouts?

Yeah, gd legit points made by many. Many perspectives. Just that from a techie perspective, amazing that they bothered to enhance a basic turn signal feature that way. You are probably right that that this programming came from autonomous vehicles, but i see it as a gd thing that they did it on this function which isn't that critical.

Sometimes, I also wonder if I see a Tesla as a tech gadget or a car, because I actually look fwd to the software updates. But emotion wise, it doesnt stir passion like some of my previous cars. Need to buy a good ICE car to keep, before they all get phased out. 

But haha, agree that the turn signal thing could be a solution looking for a non-critical problem. Why solve something that isnt broken, although must say such thinking does inhibit innovation. I must confess though that I love the feature now because I always used the 3 blink tap to chg lane or turn,because to flick the turn signal stalk hard, felt like abusing the stalk in terms of tactile feel, but 3 blinks often isn't long enough to complete the maneuver in local traffic conditions. So far, the turn signal always terminates at the right time. Haven't tried roundabouts yet, let me check it out. 

 

[Mkl22]

Majority of the chargers will be slow overnight chargers of 6-8hrs, in order not to overload the grid. 
I would assume likely to be 7.4 to 11kwh chargers? Since most car batteries are around 50kwh-70kwh. 

the amount rolled out by 2030 will for sure not be enough. As of now, looking at the SP app for ev charging on a Sunday morn at 9am. Most the the slots are already taken up. 

[Lethalstrike]

OTA software update isn't really a unique selling point nowadays. 

Most of the ICE models from the premium brands (MB, Audi, BMW, Volvo, Lexus etc) already has a built-in 4G connectivity in their cars for you to control the car with a mobile app etc. Likewise, the latest infotainment systems such BMW iOS 8 or Volvo's Google based system already have OTA capability right now. Even KIA also has a mobile app to control your car as they were advertising on TV some weeks back. Whether we like it or not, how we use the car is going to be monitored by the manufacturers, in return the plus point is that the car can be optimised continuously. In fact, they should be paying me since they are mining my usage pattern etc 🤣

However, what OTA can do to a car is the ability to restrict servicing/repairs at third-party workshops for your brand, or if you buy a PI car, you won't be entitled to future OTA updates. And yes, this is the cornerstone to shift consumers to subscription based services and features in the car. 

[Jtis]

19 minutes ago, Lethalstrike said:

OTA software update isn't really a unique selling point nowadays. 

Most of the ICE models from the premium brands (MB, Audi, BMW, Volvo, Lexus etc) already has a built-in 4G connectivity in their cars for you to control the car with a mobile app etc. Likewise, the latest infotainment systems such BMW iOS 8 or Volvo's Google based system already have OTA capability right now. Even KIA also has a mobile app to control your car as they were advertising on TV some weeks back. Whether we like it or not, how we use the car is going to be monitored by the manufacturers, in return the plus point is that the car can be optimised continuously. In fact, they should be paying me since they are mining my usage pattern etc 🤣

However, what OTA can do to a car is the ability to restrict servicing/repairs at third-party workshops for your brand, or if you buy a PI car, you won't be entitled to future OTA updates. And yes, this is the cornerstone to shift consumers to subscription based services and features in the car. 

Double edged sword indeed.

Subscription was brought up. In my view, one important thing to set clear boundaries on, is what the concept of ownership means in future. If you paid for something, rights of use for a basic set of functionalities must be a given. If even basic functionality is on subscription, then it should be a lease, not ownership. 

Subscription for good-to-have software is much more palatable than unlocking hardware via subscription in such an instance. Paying for access to real-time traffic updates vs paying $X for monthly access to use of aircon in your car. Imagine that, wah lao!!!