ICE Vehicles vs Electric Vehicles Savings

[inlinesix]

Porsche's new on-board charger for Taycan EVs halves Level 2 charging times

But you'll need to pay $1,850 for the module and another $1,586 for a new wall charger.
https://www.engadget.com/porsche-on-board-charger-halves-charging-times-231909738.html

Porsche up the bar for EV.

[Voodooman]

On 12/20/2022 at 12:08 AM, Mkl22 said:

Majority of the chargers will be slow overnight chargers of 6-8hrs, in order not to overload the grid. 
I would assume likely to be 7.4 to 11kwh chargers? Since most car batteries are around 50kwh-70kwh. 

the amount rolled out by 2030 will for sure not be enough. As of now, looking at the SP app for ev charging on a Sunday morn at 9am. Most the the slots are already taken up. 

Most AC chargers in the market are 7kwh costing $2-3k/ unit (without need to upgrade cables and DB box), not expensive. Demand will entice supply.

Agree with you that majority of chargers will be slow AC chargers installed at public car parks. 

 

[inlinesix]

13 minutes ago, Voodooman said:

Most AC chargers in the market are 7kwh costing $2-3k/ unit (without need to upgrade cables and DB box), not expensive. Demand will entice supply.

Agree with you that majority of chargers will be slow AC chargers installed at public car parks. 

 

This could be a cheaper solution

 

[Jtis]

My personal view is that for Singapore's small size, public charging Infrastructure implementation ought to be different from other countrues, really no need to have too many DC chargers, that is really more for long distance travel.  I understand DC chargers are very pricey and can cost high 5 or low 6 digits each, each dc charger can pay for tens of AC chargers if at $2-3k each. Infrastructure ought to look to replace what ang mo countries have, a personal charger in the garage of landed homes.

Just spam lots of lower powered destination AC chargers at home carparks, offices and places ppl visit for extended duration eg parks, attractions. And maybe some mindset change as well, drivers shouldnt be obsessed with getting a full charge everytime you plug in, just do it regularly to calibrate the BMS.

Slow charging nevermind, dont overload the location's electrical grid, better to have to have 6 x 7.4kW AC chargers than 2 x 22kW, or even 12 x 3.7kW. Less angst about charge lot hogging. Most drivers also don't need to travel hundreds of km a day anyway

[Mooose]

On 12/19/2022 at 8:30 PM, Ganwb79 said:

Technical feat aside, is such a feature needed? Wats wrong with the original system that needed improving? Sometimes these "features" seem like additions for their own sake. 

 

yes, though it can look mighty impressive at first, i also wonder if some features are really needed ..

like do you really need to make someone go to the main screen to find the button to open the glovebox? what was wrong with the glovebox handles that we have all been using throughout the years?

some things just work easier with physical buttons/switches .. like trying to adjust the wing mirrors on the go .. the old fashioned little toggle switches dont even need the driver to take his eyes off the road to work it .. 

[inlinesix]

38 minutes ago, Mooose said:

yes, though it can look mighty impressive at first, i also wonder if some features are really needed ..

like do you really need to make someone go to the main screen to find the button to open the glovebox? what was wrong with the glovebox handles that we have all been using throughout the years?

some things just work easier with physical buttons/switches .. like trying to adjust the wing mirrors on the go .. the old fashioned little toggle switches dont even need the driver to take his eyes off the road to work it .. 

The biggest problem with Tesla,  it is designed for ease of manufacturing.

[Hamburger]

My car if driven locally, should have a range of 600km thereabouts.

If driven on NSHW it drops drastically to less than 400km.

If it's an EV, my guess the claimed range will also drop from say, 450km to 250km or less??

EV is simply not ideal for road trip and causes too much inconvenience and anxiety. 

[Lethalstrike]

16 hours ago, Hamburger said:

My car if driven locally, should have a range of 600km thereabouts.

If driven on NSHW it drops drastically to less than 400km.

If it's an EV, my guess the claimed range will also drop from say, 450km to 250km or less??

EV is simply not ideal for road trip and causes too much inconvenience and anxiety. 

I think this has to be put into the context of which is the EV that you intend to get, due to variation in range from different battery packs and the power of the electric motor.

In a lazy man's calculation, my own experience of real world range is as below,

1. Manufacturer advertise as 600km (WLTP) = Roughly deduct 20% for real world mileage (easily achievable) = 480 km

2. Manufacturer advertise as 600km (NEDC) = Roughly deduct 30% for real world mileage (easily achievable) = 420 km

The most stringent standard is actually US's EPA. But none of the brands use that here for obvious reason. 

But yes, agree with you that for anyone who wants to do a long trip up north, EV isn't really ideal due to the infrastructure in Malaysia. Its do-able, but requires planning in advance for exact charging stops and provided no surprises such as charging station down when you reach there. 

[Hamburger]

@Lethalstrike 

Regardless of my manufacturer claims are like, we can't defy the law of physic.

Lot more energy is required for high speed cruising as compared to normal speed.

Imagine battery flat out just after 250km and required charging again. Waste of time.

EV not for me, for now.

[Lethalstrike]

2 hours ago, Hamburger said:

@Lethalstrike 

Regardless of my manufacturer claims are like, we can't defy the law of physic.

Lot more energy is required for high speed cruising as compared to normal speed.

Imagine battery flat out just after 250km and required charging again. Waste of time.

EV not for me, for now.

Yes, this is also again true.

Higher speed cruising at the more illegal speeds along NSH isn't for EVs. Most EVs now in the market also have a top speed of less than 200km/h (usually around 160km/h to 180km/h V-max). This is also because of the fact that most EVs are single-speed without a multi-speed gearbox.

Thing is this, for an EV to be most efficient, its usually between 90-110 km/h cruising speeds. Perfect for Singapore. At stop / start traffic, One Pedal Driving might help to recuperate a bit more. As we go above that, let's say 150km/h cruising along NSH, electric consumption will move out of its most efficient band and the EV would consume quite a fair bit more energy as it needs to overcome more air resistance. 

We're lucky that we are near to the equator without winter. Cold temperatures will drastically reduce the range of a li-ion battery pack, quite a lot more compared to cruising at high speeds. 

End of the day, different strokes for different folks. Not everyone believes in an EV (subjected to their usage patterns and personal preferences). 

 

Edited December 22, 2022 by Lethalstrike

[Solar]

On 11/20/2022 at 1:11 PM, inlinesix said:

For your mileage, you definitely get more savings paying high road tax upfront.

The biggest mental hurdle is pay more for saving in the next 12 months.

Stationary EV consumes about 5kw/h of power.

I'm not too sure about that... Remember diesel tax.. was increased to a point that it doesn't really justify paying the much higher road tax for diesel cars

[inlinesix]

1 hour ago, Solar said:

I'm not too sure about that... Remember diesel tax.. was increased to a point that it doesn't really justify paying the much higher road tax for diesel cars

Not forgetting CNG.

The problem is 2 fold:

1. Price of Diesel vs RON92: 1 cent

2. FC different: 1L/100km

Unlike Diesel, EV is the future.

[Voodooman]

3 minutes ago, inlinesix said:

Not forgetting CNG.

The problem is 2 fold:

1. Price of Diesel vs RON92: 1 cent

2. FC different: 1L/100km

Unlike Diesel, EV is the future.

Why did the gap between diesel and petrol narrowed so much? I used to remember diesel is much cheaper to run than petrol? And G has been adding petrol taxes for a while. 

[Hamburger]

1 hour ago, Voodooman said:

Why did the gap between diesel and petrol narrowed so much? I used to remember diesel is much cheaper to run than petrol? And G has been adding petrol taxes for a while. 

Did the diesel road tax come down too?

I am puzzled too unless diesel tax was levied.

[inlinesix]

1 hour ago, Voodooman said:

Why did the gap between diesel and petrol narrowed so much? I used to remember diesel is much cheaper to run than petrol? And G has been adding petrol taxes for a while. 

I was shocked as well.

I am guessing higher fuel standard (Euro VI).

But a lot of local truck is running on rubbish diesel

[Rickster]

11 hours ago, Voodooman said:

Why did the gap between diesel and petrol narrowed so much? I used to remember diesel is much cheaper to run than petrol? And G has been adding petrol taxes for a while. 

That's because 3 or 4 years ago, govt reduced the diesel car road tax and in return, the taxes shift to diesel fuel instead. 

I was driving a diesel car that time and I remembered, overnight, the price of diesel shot up to almost the same as Ron 92. Has been like that every since.

[Rickster]

12 hours ago, inlinesix said:

Not forgetting CNG.

The problem is 2 fold:

1. Price of Diesel vs RON92: 1 cent

2. FC different: 1L/100km

Unlike Diesel, EV is the future.

Yap, it's only a matter of time before all cars will be running on batteries instead of petrol. 

I've been itching for a high performance electric car, but prices and infrastructure has still some room for improvement for my use case at least.

 

[Rickster]

On 12/21/2022 at 11:36 AM, Mooose said:

yes, though it can look mighty impressive at first, i also wonder if some features are really needed ..

like do you really need to make someone go to the main screen to find the button to open the glovebox? what was wrong with the glovebox handles that we have all been using throughout the years?

some things just work easier with physical buttons/switches .. like trying to adjust the wing mirrors on the go .. the old fashioned little toggle switches dont even need the driver to take his eyes off the road to work it .. 

Blame it on marketing and they way AD spec their cars to "improve" the specs against competitors.

C&C Merc not too long ago tried to go against the trend by selling some of their lower end models with an additional 3K discount if the buyer is ok to remove the electronic seat w/memory option. Maybe next time they will come in and start offering more discounts if the buyer can do without blind spot monitor, lane departure warning etc.