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Toyota Claims Its New Combustion Engines Are a Game-Changer


awhtc
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6th Gear

Toyota Claims Its New Combustion Engines Are a Game-Changer

The Chief Technology Officer argues the new engines are completely different than current ICEs.

Toyota's CTO mentioned the new engines are going to have a shorter piston stroke, which was "a very difficult task" to accomplish. These inline-fours are all going to be smaller to "revolutionize vehicle packaging," enabling lower front ends for better efficiency by optimizing airflow. The torque lost in the process will be compensated by the instant response of an electric motor. These new engines are being developed primarily with hybrids in mind.

As to when the first cars will hit the streets with the new engines, expect to see them around 2027. Toyota is developing the powertrains to run not just on fossil fuels, but also on biofuel, hydrogen, and even synthetic fuel. Nakajima claims this new engine family "has lots of room to play," suggesting there are plenty of engineering tricks the company won't divulge for now.

https://www.motor1.com/news/722314/toyota-claims-game-changing-engines/

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Turbocharged

After the recent saga over false records and reporting concerning Toyota cars, I shall take all these news with a large pinch of salt.

Just like VW diesel gate, their credibility goes down the drain overnight, at least for me.

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Turbocharged
On 6/7/2024 at 9:20 AM, awhtc said:

Toyota Claims Its New Combustion Engines Are a Game-Changer

The Chief Technology Officer argues the new engines are completely different than current ICEs.

Toyota's CTO mentioned the new engines are going to have a shorter piston stroke, which was "a very difficult task" to accomplish. These inline-fours are all going to be smaller to "revolutionize vehicle packaging," enabling lower front ends for better efficiency by optimizing airflow. The torque lost in the process will be compensated by the instant response of an electric motor. These new engines are being developed primarily with hybrids in mind.

As to when the first cars will hit the streets with the new engines, expect to see them around 2027. Toyota is developing the powertrains to run not just on fossil fuels, but also on biofuel, hydrogen, and even synthetic fuel. Nakajima claims this new engine family "has lots of room to play," suggesting there are plenty of engineering tricks the company won't divulge for now.

https://www.motor1.com/news/722314/toyota-claims-game-changing-engines/

Why is it a game changer i cannot understand? It sounds like an evolution of their existing hybrid system 🤣

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Supersonic

Shorter stroke = lower height (better aerodynamics) and higher revs. 

Maybe I should buy my first Toyota.....

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On 6/7/2024 at 10:18 AM, Volvobrick said:

Shorter stroke = lower height (better aerodynamics) and higher revs. 

Maybe I should buy my first Toyota.....

The current Prius already has a low bonnet height to help frontal aerodynamics. I wonder how low they want to go. Maybe get a flat-4 from subaru will bring it lower 🤣

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6th Gear

Designed to burn alternative fuels.

 

On 6/7/2024 at 10:05 AM, Lethalstrike said:

Why is it a game changer i cannot understand? It sounds like an evolution of their existing hybrid system 🤣

 

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On 6/7/2024 at 10:18 AM, Volvobrick said:

Shorter stroke = lower height (better aerodynamics) and higher revs. 

Maybe I should buy my first Toyota.....

Wanna group buy? @Tohto will be laughing at me :D

On 6/7/2024 at 8:41 PM, Voodooman said:

Can do 2,000 km with 1 tank? Like BYD's new hybrid.

They are late to the EV game and now BYD is beating them to the hybrid game, that is complacency.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-05-28/byd-shows-off-new-hybrid-powertrain-capable-of-ultra-long-drive

Actually there isn't any major break through with ICE over the past 30 years, all the so called better efficiency(and lesser emissions) are with the help of say gearbox, tweak to  combustion cycle, start-stop, cruising mode, etc. 

In EV and hybrid, the key deciding factor is nothing but the battery. In this aspect, MIC BEV, PHEV and Hybrid such as BYD, Geely group (almost lost count of how many brands they have) have a upper hand simply because they are well ahead of the game and research is funded by earlier adopters. 

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Hypersonic
On 6/7/2024 at 8:52 PM, Carbon82 said:

Wanna group buy? @Tohto will be laughing at me :D

Actually there isn't any major break through with ICE over the past 30 years, all the so called better efficiency(and lesser emissions) are with the help of say gearbox, tweak to  combustion cycle, start-stop, cruising mode, etc. 

In EV and hybrid, the key deciding factor is nothing but the battery. In this aspect, MIC BEV, PHEV and Hybrid such as BYD, Geely group (almost lost count of how many brands they have) have a upper hand simply because they are well ahead of the game and research is funded by earlier adopters. 

Maybe I also buy a Toyota Hybrid one day.. 😅 

Since my current aging car is also Japanese car. 

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Supersonic
On 6/7/2024 at 8:52 PM, Carbon82 said:

Wanna group buy? @Tohto will be laughing at me :D

Actually there isn't any major break through with ICE over the past 30 years, all the so called better efficiency(and lesser emissions) are with the help of say gearbox, tweak to  combustion cycle, start-stop, cruising mode, etc. 

In EV and hybrid, the key deciding factor is nothing but the battery. In this aspect, MIC BEV, PHEV and Hybrid such as BYD, Geely group (almost lost count of how many brands they have) have a upper hand simply because they are well ahead of the game and research is funded by earlier adopters. 

Agree.  Even BYD plug in hybrid is using batteries to support the 2000km range as well. The improvement in combustion engine efficiency can only be incremental and probably by trading off power/acceleration to improve range.  

Battery technology have not reached its theoretical limit yet. 

 

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On 6/7/2024 at 10:05 AM, Lethalstrike said:

Why is it a game changer i cannot understand? It sounds like an evolution of their existing hybrid system 🤣

Have an open mind. When the previous Toyota CEO slam EV the whole world laugh at Toyota been stubborn and the CEO was pressure to step down and become advisor. But 2023 Toyota sales was 11.2m cars while the WHOLE world combine EV sales was 14m

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/10/climate/hybrids-evs-toyota-climate-impact-int/index.html

https://www.iea.org/reports/global-ev-outlook-2024/trends-in-electric-cars#

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Supersonic
On 6/8/2024 at 11:03 AM, D3badge said:

Have an open mind. When the previous Toyota CEO slam EV the whole world laugh at Toyota been stubborn and the CEO was pressure to step down and become advisor. But 2023 Toyota sales was 11.2m cars while the WHOLE world combine EV sales was 14m

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/10/climate/hybrids-evs-toyota-climate-impact-int/index.html

https://www.iea.org/reports/global-ev-outlook-2024/trends-in-electric-cars#

to throw a spanner into the works:

 I counter that EV's adoption is abysmal currently due to trade protectionism and US/Europe vs China situation.

You lift the all the EV import tariffs for EVs coming from China, you will probably see Toyota sales plummet like a stone.

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Turbocharged
On 6/8/2024 at 11:18 AM, Vratenza said:

to throw a spanner into the works:

 I counter that EV's adoption is abysmal currently due to trade protectionism and US/Europe vs China situation.

You lift the all the EV import tariffs for EVs coming from China, you will probably see Toyota sales plummet like a stone.

Toyota has already lost the China car market due to domestic EVs. Toyota is now also facing a threat from BYD in the Thailand market, which has been their traditional stronghold. The onslaught and erosion of market share is real. 

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Turbocharged
On 6/8/2024 at 11:03 AM, D3badge said:

Have an open mind. When the previous Toyota CEO slam EV the whole world laugh at Toyota been stubborn and the CEO was pressure to step down and become advisor. But 2023 Toyota sales was 11.2m cars while the WHOLE world combine EV sales was 14m

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/10/climate/hybrids-evs-toyota-climate-impact-int/index.html

https://www.iea.org/reports/global-ev-outlook-2024/trends-in-electric-cars#

I have my doubts on the so called new technology. Getting ICE to use alternative fuels isn't exactly new, hydrogen also isn't going to take off in a very big way for Toyota in the near future. The above 2 will still require substantial infrastructure redevelopments for the market to switch. No doubt hybrids will still be welcomed in many places, but they can't continue to ignore the BEV market which will still continue to grow. 

At the end of the day, there is only so much thermal efficiency you can continue to squeeze out of an ICE.

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Supersonic
On 6/8/2024 at 12:21 PM, Lethalstrike said:

I have my doubts on the so called new technology. Getting ICE to use alternative fuels isn't exactly new, hydrogen also isn't going to take off in a very big way for Toyota in the near future. The above 2 will still require substantial infrastructure redevelopments for the market to switch. No doubt hybrids will still be welcomed in many places, but they can't continue to ignore the BEV market which will still continue to grow. 

At the end of the day, there is only so much thermal efficiency you can continue to squeeze out of an ICE.

Yup, hydrogen for auto is stupid. But the Japanese are still going all in on ICE, which is going to yield only incremental improvement but battery tech is at just half its theoretical limits and with EV range going up to 1,000 km, charging network is less and less critical to its adoption. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterlyon/2024/05/29/who-said-the-gasoline-engine-was-dead-not-toyota/

It is quite a gamble against technology (30% efficiency vs EV's 90%) and maths (cost of renewables are still falling and they are not exhaustible) but maybe they know something I have figured out yet.


 

 

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6th Gear

My next car might still be a hybrid.

I cannot imagine charging my car for 30 min to 1 hour.

Or having a battery fire when I'm driving it or in a car crash.

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Supersonic
On 6/8/2024 at 11:03 AM, D3badge said:

Have an open mind. When the previous Toyota CEO slam EV the whole world laugh at Toyota been stubborn and the CEO was pressure to step down and become advisor. But 2023 Toyota sales was 11.2m cars while the WHOLE world combine EV sales was 14m

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/10/climate/hybrids-evs-toyota-climate-impact-int/index.html

https://www.iea.org/reports/global-ev-outlook-2024/trends-in-electric-cars#

The science. 

Not to mention EV cost are still falling with range increasing by the day whereas ICE thermal efficiency has more or less plateaued. 

https://www.quora.com/How-does-the-efficiency-of-electric-cars-compare-to-gas-powered-cars-in-terms-of-energy-use-per-distance-traveled

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On 6/8/2024 at 2:38 PM, Voodooman said:

Yup, hydrogen for auto is stupid. But the Japanese are still going all in on ICE, which is going to yield only incremental improvement but battery tech is at just half its theoretical limits and with EV range going up to 1,000 km, charging network is less and less critical to its adoption. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/peterlyon/2024/05/29/who-said-the-gasoline-engine-was-dead-not-toyota/

It is quite a gamble against technology (30% efficiency vs EV's 90%) and maths (cost of renewables are still falling and they are not exhaustible) but maybe they know something I have figured out yet.

Sunk cost fallacy for the japs, especially Toyota. They had invested so much into hydrogen fuel cell betting on it to be the next game changer after conventional hybrid, but this plan was disrupted by the CCP's and Tesla's massive investments in EVs. And I honestly think for Toyota, its not a case of not having enough money (Toyota is still one of the most cash rich auto maker around) or the tech (they have thousands of good engineers and they are the pioneers in batteries and electric motors), it's a case of stubborn corporate dogma and pride within the company. By now, they should recognise that the future 10 years may well be 50% hybrids, 50% EVs. 

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