Electric MPVs From China - Who is going to be the Alphard killer?

[Chipsahoy8919]

Dear Forumers, 

Starting this topic as I believe some of us here may be in the same situation as me and I also hope to learn from the rest of the EV forumers here with respect to being a likely first-time EV owner. 

So, my 'hunt' started with a visit to the car showrooms at Leng Kee with a family member who was shopping for a car. Unwittingly, the 'shopping bug' latched on to me as well and I found myself 'magically' drawn to the showrooms myself with my family in tow. 

With regards to my current profile, I am driving an Alphard (Year 2021) thus when comparing 'apple to apple', an equivalent replacement would be another MPV. For the new Alphard, it costs anywhere between $360,000 - $400,000 (depending on dealer) with an annual depreciation from $31,000 onwards. From the online pictures and review, I didn't bother to check out the current Alphard as there wasn't any significant updates from my current ride. Instead, I paid a visit to the Lexus showroom to view the Lexus LM (7-seater). At > $600k, I didn't find the interior quality to be worthy of it's price tag. Even the SA commented that the LM is meant for would-be Alphard buyers with money to spare and distinguishing themselves from the 'peasants' Alphard crowd. 

Unsatiated, I looked elsewhere and found my gaze drawn to the EV MPVs from China, that were flooding the market coincidentally at this point in time.  And thus, the impetus for this topic as to who will dethrone the long undisputed king of MPVs that is the Alphard. 

1. Xpeng X9: 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1e6BfFyfb5mHigWXyuQo2YwiXHm-iblhs/view?usp=sharing

This is the newest kid on the block and while the car is in the showroom, it is undergoing homologation at LTA thus no test drive is possible. As per the SA, the selling price is likely to be at $310,000 and depreciation (my estimate) about $28,000 - $30,000. 

Pros: This is the most futuristic MPV among the lot, in both its exterior and interior. My family loved the interior the most due to the TV (for rear passengers) ala the 7-series which folds down dramatically at the touch of a button. Most of the other functions in the cabin are also operated by 1-touch buttons making it seamless and modern. Last but not least, its 3rd row recess electrically into the boot at the touch of a button creating a completely flat rear cabin.

Cons: In my opinion, the looks of the X9 is going to be divisive with polarising opinions. Personally, I am not able to fathom it's appearance, especially its rakish rear 3rd quarter. In some ways, it seems like it is modelled after the Tesla Cybertruck but I don't think it was pulled off as successfully. Therefore, I have my doubts as to its eventual resale value due to this main consideration. 

2. Zeekr 009: 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/10SmD8B66eUKu5shV8Q2-SDRBFnk5fGOK/view?usp=sharing

 

This is the car with a similar price tag as the new Alphard. I didn't enquire with the SA about the depreciation due to its initial hefty price tag and associated cost (more on that later). 

Pros: This is also a modern-looking MPV that drew comments like 'it looks like a Rolls Royce' from my family. It also features the most luxurious interior with it's trimmings and overall build quality. Most cars will also be left helpless in it's wake in a traffic light sprint as it's 0-100km/hr is in a class leading 4.5 seconds. 

Cons: Beyond the hefty price tag, the road tax is at a crazy $6.5k per annum. As one of the motivation for switching to EV is to lower the operating cost, this is definitely a huge red flag and therefore reduces it's appeal (didn't even test drive as don't want to waste the SA time). 

3. Maxus Mifa 7/9: 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vDibRvN8KYnmNLWnWJQc6f0qldVE_ka3/view?usp=sharing

This is the most affordable car among the lot. Visited the showroom just to draw a level of comparison but didn't test drive as wasn't really keen on it. A note though that, this was the only showroom where we were not accosted by a SA thus maybe they had hit the sales quota for 2024. 

Pros: This has the lowest price tag and first mover rights as it was the first large 7-seater electric MPV to make its foray into the local market. 

Cons: No disrespect to current Mifa 7/9 owners, but I feel that the interior build quality and trimming reflects in the price tag. For the Mifa 9, the instrument cluster and head unit is really below par as more of an afterthought. However, I believe this was the best option in the past as it was the only sizeable MPV that is an EV and therefore, owners really didn't have much choices to consider. 

4. Denza D9: 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/10YwRQpBtBkR2Jj_Rjc5syg2nzcVwhsHD/view?usp=sharing

 

This was the only car I test drive as from the online research, it had ticked all the right boxes. 

Pros: First and foremost, it is unpretentious in its intention and looks like an Alphard. Therefore, I believe its design is more palatable for existing Alphard owners making the transition. Next, the price tag (depreciation at $27-$28k for the FWD Elite model) is 'reasonable' in current market conditions and undercuts the Alphard by $3-4k a year in depreciation. It makes decent power and have sufficient range, and it's road tax is only $480 more than the new Alphard. It's interior build quality and trim is also 'value for money' in terms of its quality. An initial collaboration between BYD and Mercedes, this is apparent in the cabin such as the wood trimmings (same as in Mercedes products) and ambient lighting. It also offers better seat comfort in the 3rd row as compared to the Alphard/X9 and perhaps comparable to the 009. This is because the seats are inclined a few degrees towards the ceiling thus making it significantly more comfortable as compared to the Alphard which is flatter and has shallower seat bottoms. In terms of the drive, it also feels more 'continental' - same secured/rooted/engaged sensation as premium makes that I had driven before that hails from Germany/England. 

Cons: From the B-pillar onwards, one may be surprised to find that the D9 offers less in terms of cabin space than the Alphard despite its longer length/wheelbase. This is due to the 'thicker materials' used (like the captain seats) and a 410L fixed boot (Alphard has none). The ambient lighting also looks like it is underpowered (too dim even at its brightest settings) unlike its ex-sister brand Mercedes. Finally, there isn't any TV for rear passengers like the 009 and X9 which was a severe disappointment for my family (as we have 1 in our existing Alphard). 

As you would have guessed it by now, all things considered, the Denza D9 is in my opinion going to give the Alphard a real run for its money in its uninhibited attempt to wrestle the 'King of MPV' throne in Singapore. There is nothing wrong with the Alphard (past and present). From the B-pillar onwards, in my opinion, it beats the more luxurious contemporaries such as the Mercedes S-class or 7-series. It also leverages intensively on its branding as the most reliable car brand in the world (and rightfully so as my past 3 years of ownership had been uneventful compared to my previous experiences). On the flip side, it offers an emotionless and soul-less drive. It's interior build quality is at best average and the 3rd row seat comfort is mediocre. 

With the new Alphard at >$30k in annual depreciation, it really makes no financial sense at all to choose the new Alphard as its interior build/quality is still average and features almost non-existent. For MPVs, the 2nd row seats are the 'money seats' and therefore, it must be the most important point of reference for these luxury MPVs. For instance (past/new Alphard), in its most basic trim, there are no touch-screen control panels at its captain chairs, no ventilated or massage seats. And all these comes standard in the D9. Therefore, all things equal, it is bewildering why one would consider the new Alphard over the D9, when you paying more for less! 

Furthermore, in terms of operating cost and assuming an annual mileage of 20,000km for the average driver and based on a fuel consumption of 12km/l and RON 95 petrol at $2.20/l for the Alphard, it costs $3667 in petrol cost per year. For the D9, it has a consumption of 4.66km/kwh and based on $0.5 kwh charging costs, one would pay $2145 per year which translate to a saving of $1522. If one would to minus $480 (due to the higher annual road tax of the D9 compared to the Alphard), it would still translate to a saving of $1042 yearly. This saving would be even higher if petrol costs increases and if one has access to home charging (at $0.3 kwh compared to 3rd party service providers). Also, we haven't factored in the lower maintenance costs of EV (dealer for D9 offering 10-years battery warranty/maintenance) compared to ICE. All-in-all, it is certainly financially compelling to jump ship to the D9. 

Finally, what may be the other cons stopping Alphard owners? To me, it would be the branding and resale value down the road. And I also appreciate any other forumers inputs who have been there and done there (by transiting to EVs). At $300k a pop, the D9 ain't exactly loose change thus I am also worried if I had missed out any 'blind spots' in my analysis. 

Awaiting your valuable inputs and hope my sharing had offered other forumers who are in the same situation as me in making a better decision on their next purchase, thanks!

[Voodooman]

No screen but does the D9 has 2 fridges like the Z9?  Lol

China sibei hot.

 

 

Edited November 10 by Voodooman

[Lala81]

I saw a LM500 few days ago. 

The undercarriage is very low. Will strike some high humps if going over at speed. or going over a hump at the base of slope and going upslope at same time 
Seems like have the same problem with some older toyotas. 

 

Edited November 10 by Lala81

[Estrangable]

I am actually waiting for the coe price to go down further and then I probably will go for either a Mifa 7 or a m6 … and of cos if there is a good deal , the Denza d9. I saw that in a roadshow and it actually blew me away in terms of luxurious fittings. Most of the items are standard fittings unlike the japs and Germans .. example the panoramic sunroof . Standard package … for those who purchased a car in the early 2000s will rem how much a stupid sunroof cost … u have to top up close to 10k for just a piece of small tiny glass.  

[Estrangable]

@Voodooman just one fridge. I love their  captain seats . 

[Voodooman]

On 11/10/2024 at 6:56 PM, Estrangable said:

@Voodooman just one fridge. I love their  captain seats . 

Thanks.

Still can't fathom why the Z9 has 2 fridges.  It is pretty useless in SG, at least we don't need 2.  The one in the rear seat actually prevents full folding down of the rear seats into a flat bed.

Maybe next year you have the option of the Zeekr Mix. The design is quite intriguing. 

[Chipsahoy8919]

@Estrangable 

 

You hit the nail on the head! This is indeed the golden question as to what will happen to the COE trending in the coming months, especially with the GE around the corner. Folks always say that COE will fall nearing to the GE but not sure if this is supported by any proof in numbers. 

You are right on about the standard fittings that I forgot to mention in my initial post that the D9 comes with a sunroof (can be opened) for the front cabin, panoramic moonroof in the rear and soft close door for the front doors. 

In monetary sense, it is seriously a 'value for money' proposition thus the relentless temptation. 

[Unltd]

The only issue now as mentioned is resale price, EV resale prices are terrible and will continue to be. This is generally because each new model is exponentially better than the last, faster charging, more features, longer distance etc… are things which would be improving by leaps and bounds as the technology progresses. Thus, it will only make sense to buy a 2nd hand electric car if it is much cheaper than a new and this will continue to affect the resale price in the foreseeable medium term.

The ICE cars will likely be facing a resale price issue in another few years, generally 2027 onwards (in particular 2030) because of the switch to hybrids and full electric, also people warming up to better features and cost savings of electric cars. So what the dealers are screaming about in terms of resale value of ICE cars being better, will likely be temporary (until around 2027) as more folks abandon ICE cars due to regulation changes and better EV infrastructure.

I am looking for MPV too, but more of a SPADA, NOAH size, not an Alphard size… don’t really see that in EVs at the moment.

[Chipsahoy8919]

@Unltd 

On 11/11/2024 at 12:10 PM, Unltd said:

The only issue now as mentioned is resale price, EV resale prices are terrible and will continue to be. This is generally because each new model is exponentially better than the last, faster charging, more features, longer distance etc… are things which would be improving by leaps and bounds as the technology progresses. Thus, it will only make sense to buy a 2nd hand electric car if it is much cheaper than a new and this will continue to affect the resale price in the foreseeable medium term.

The ICE cars will likely be facing a resale price issue in another few years, generally 2027 onwards (in particular 2030) because of the switch to hybrids and full electric, also people warming up to better features and cost savings of electric cars. So what the dealers are screaming about in terms of resale value of ICE cars being better, will likely be temporary (until around 2027) as more folks abandon ICE cars due to regulation changes and better EV infrastructure.

I am looking for MPV too, but more of a SPADA, NOAH size, not an Alphard size… don’t really see that in EVs at the moment.

Yes, this is another main area of consideration. So in my research, I based the findings on the 'new toyota altis' of the EV world which is the BYD Atto 3. Comparing a brand new Atto 3 to one that was registered in 2022, the depreciation isn't that far apart (at most $1-2k/annum). Thus, this also led me to believe that there is still a viable market out there for used EVs. Going forward, cars are always going to be aspirational targets for most Singaporeans so I am of the opinion that used EVs will still sell.

I am actually more afraid of wild fluctuations in COE that would render a present high-COE owner helpless if it crashes dramatically back to $30+k like in 2020/21. Then, one would really be stuck with your EV till death (scrap yard) do us apart. Unfortunately, no crystal ball to gaze 2-3 years into the future thus if I were to make a stand, I believe $100k COEs are here to stay regardless of what tactics LTA pushes to trim/boost supplies. 

Back to this topic, perhaps, ex or present EV owners who sold their cars can chip in and share more here on their first-hand experience of selling an EV and whether it was the greatest lowball that they ever received compared to ICE.

[Jev]

Not sure why anyone would buy an Alphard now with these 4-5 choices.

My take is that the x9 is for families that would've otherwise bought an Alphard, it's more family oriented than PHV

The 009 is for the rich who have their own alphard/lexus LM

The Mifa 7 is the cheaper option for those who would've otherwise bought a noah/stepwagon

The D9 is the new PHV Alphard

[Sdf4786k]

On 11/11/2024 at 12:10 PM, Unltd said:

The only issue now as mentioned is resale price, EV resale prices are terrible and will continue to be. This is generally because each new model is exponentially better than the last, faster charging, more features, longer distance etc… are things which would be improving by leaps and bounds as the technology progresses. Thus, it will only make sense to buy a 2nd hand electric car if it is much cheaper than a new and this will continue to affect the resale price in the foreseeable medium term.

The ICE cars will likely be facing a resale price issue in another few years, generally 2027 onwards (in particular 2030) because of the switch to hybrids and full electric, also people warming up to better features and cost savings of electric cars. So what the dealers are screaming about in terms of resale value of ICE cars being better, will likely be temporary (until around 2027) as more folks abandon ICE cars due to regulation changes and better EV infrastructure.

I am looking for MPV too, but more of a SPADA, NOAH size, not an Alphard size… don’t really see that in EVs at the moment.

I believe it’s not low resale price but rather no resale price. Just look at the scrap value after day one when u drive out of the show room to understand the numbers. It’s even lower than a VW Jetta that u buy from Mexico and that’s ridiculously nothing. Imagine 18 months later and the car get crush beyond economic repair .. u Will seriously be out of pocket for 50% of the value of the car.

unless the banks that loan the capital are not risk adverse, then yes the buyer is financially at risk .. time the g men relook at financial prudence .. and reduce the loan to just 20% max of the total price of the car. 

Edited November 23 by Sdf4786k

[Voodooman]

On 11/23/2024 at 7:17 PM, Sdf4786k said:

I believe it’s not low resale price but rather no resale price. Just look at the scrap value after day one when u drive out of the show room to understand the numbers. It’s even lower than a VW Jetta that u buy from Mexico and that’s ridiculously nothing. Imagine 18 months later and the car get crush beyond economic repair .. u Will seriously be out of pocket for 50% of the value of the car.

unless the banks that loan the capital are not risk adverse, then yes the buyer is financially at risk .. time the g men relook at financial prudence .. and reduce the loan to just 20% max of the total price of the car. 

Huh? 50% discount on a 1 day old EV? I must be looking at the wrong place. 

[inlinesix]

On 11/23/2024 at 7:17 PM, Sdf4786k said:

I believe it’s not low resale price but rather no resale price. Just look at the scrap value after day one when u drive out of the show room to understand the numbers. It’s even lower than a VW Jetta that u buy from Mexico and that’s ridiculously nothing. Imagine 18 months later and the car get crush beyond economic repair .. u Will seriously be out of pocket for 50% of the value of the car.

unless the banks that loan the capital are not risk adverse, then yes the buyer is financially at risk .. time the g men relook at financial prudence .. and reduce the loan to just 20% max of the total price of the car. 

That’s why I said BUY TESLA

[Unltd]

On 11/23/2024 at 7:17 PM, Sdf4786k said:

I believe it’s not low resale price but rather no resale price. Just look at the scrap value after day one when u drive out of the show room to understand the numbers. It’s even lower than a VW Jetta that u buy from Mexico and that’s ridiculously nothing. Imagine 18 months later and the car get crush beyond economic repair .. u Will seriously be out of pocket for 50% of the value of the car.

unless the banks that loan the capital are not risk adverse, then yes the buyer is financially at risk .. time the g men relook at financial prudence .. and reduce the loan to just 20% max of the total price of the car. 

The way the market is changing, regular ICE will also have no or low resale value soon (I suspect 2026), because they need to be replaced by Hybrid or EV. Moving forward with the way our COE works, EV resale value should start to be better, but of course the major issue hindering that is advancement in technology, where the older iterations have much less features, that’s again what is generally affecting EV cars.

You must look forward and think what is to come, the fact is you can only go with hybrid or EV, so ICE will die and the resale of it will drop. Look at it from diesel perspective, I am not sure about you, but I drove diesel cars for a long time because of the cost savings in terms of fuel. However when the subsidy changed and it no longer become more economical, coupled with the heavy loading for road tax, it died, in the first years or so of the announcement, the resale was still very good. But once people and the market catches on, it is a dud.

So I suspect the same thing will happen, ICE will go the way of diesel in Singapore due to our regulations. For now (around 4~6 years) hybrid is probably still good to buy, because of the tax structure and for the average person who drives maybe 20k km, after calculating road tax, insurance and fuel, you probably still save $$$ over an EV with no range anxiety and no need to fight over limited EV infrastructure. But again, this is temporary, only for the medium term. 

In the longer term, once the bells and whistles of EVs are similar and only incremental, that is when EV prices should have good resale value. Because the new model ain’t much different from the old and you save $$$ buying old.

[Chipsahoy8919]

On 11/23/2024 at 7:17 PM, Sdf4786k said:

I believe it’s not low resale price but rather no resale price. Just look at the scrap value after day one when u drive out of the show room to understand the numbers. It’s even lower than a VW Jetta that u buy from Mexico and that’s ridiculously nothing. Imagine 18 months later and the car get crush beyond economic repair .. u Will seriously be out of pocket for 50% of the value of the car.

unless the banks that loan the capital are not risk adverse, then yes the buyer is financially at risk .. time the g men relook at financial prudence .. and reduce the loan to just 20% max of the total price of the car. 

Can I please clarify with you on the following: 

1. No resale price: Are you an ex-EV owner who sold your EV and sold it at a massive loss of up to 50% after 1.5 years of use? I understand that there is no scrap value (PARF rebate) for some models like the Atto 3, but when it comes to calculating the biggest component of car costs, it is the annual depreciation, rather than the scrap value (PARF rebate) at the end of 10 years. 

Based on the asking selling price of resale Atto 3s, I find it difficult to understand your negative sentiment that a used Atto 3 depreciates at >50% after 1.5 years. A quick search at sgcarmart (link: https://www.sgcarmart.com/used-cars/listing?q=atto+3&fr=2023&to=2023&avl=&ord=RGD_ASC) reveals that 2 June 2023 registered Atto 3s retail at $144,800 or an annual depreciation of $17k, which is almost a straight line depreciation from day 1 when the car first rolled out of the showroom, which was sold at $174,888 (link here of pricing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n6DNsf1b4Q in June 2023). 

Correct me if I am wrong on this straight line depreciation calculation as the annual depreciation of a June 2023 Atto is at $17,489, thus 1.5 years of annual depreciation is $17,489 x 1.5 = $26,234. So, if we minus off this $26,234 from the initial purchase price of $174,888, it is $174,888 - $26,234 = $148,654 which is not very far off the selling price of what we are seeing being posted on sgcarmart for these 2 June 2023 resale Atto 3s. 

Thus, I find it hard to fathom if judging by your post that used EV's value drop 50% after 1.5 years, we would see Atto 3s resale prices at around the $90k region. However, this is not true. Even we factor in the used car dealer's very handsome profit of $15,000 for taking in a used June 2023 Atto 3, it means the original owner should still get get back $129,800 which is 75% of the value of the price he bought the Atto 3 at in June 2023. Unless the used car dealer profits >$50k per Atto 3 (which I seriously doubt so), it is certainly no where near the 50% loss that you had quoted after 1.5 years of use. 

2. Total loss: If any car gets into a accident where the car needs to be written off, wouldn't the owner of the car be compensated by the insurer at fair market value of a similar aged car model in the market? Thus, if we would be reference back the example of a June 2023 Atto 3, why would the owner in this scenario only receive $90k back from the insurer when a similarly aged Atto 3 is retailing at $144,800? 

I am clearly confused thus would greatly appreciate your kind enlightenment on the above! 

[Carbon82]

On 11/26/2024 at 3:41 PM, Chipsahoy8919 said:

Can I please clarify with you on the following: 

1. No resale price: Are you an ex-EV owner who sold your EV and sold it at a massive loss of up to 50% after 1.5 years of use? I understand that there is no scrap value (PARF rebate) for some models like the Atto 3, but when it comes to calculating the biggest component of car costs, it is the annual depreciation, rather than the scrap value (PARF rebate) at the end of 10 years. 

Based on the asking selling price of resale Atto 3s, I find it difficult to understand your negative sentiment that a used Atto 3 depreciates at >50% after 1.5 years. A quick search at sgcarmart (link: https://www.sgcarmart.com/used-cars/listing?q=atto+3&fr=2023&to=2023&avl=&ord=RGD_ASC) reveals that 2 June 2023 registered Atto 3s retail at $144,800 or an annual depreciation of $17k, which is almost a straight line depreciation from day 1 when the car first rolled out of the showroom, which was sold at $174,888 (link here of pricing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n6DNsf1b4Q in June 2023). 

Correct me if I am wrong on this straight line depreciation calculation as the annual depreciation of a June 2023 Atto is at $17,489, thus 1.5 years of annual depreciation is $17,489 x 1.5 = $26,234. So, if we minus off this $26,234 from the initial purchase price of $174,888, it is $174,888 - $26,234 = $148,654 which is not very far off the selling price of what we are seeing being posted on sgcarmart for these 2 June 2023 resale Atto 3s. 

Thus, I find it hard to fathom if judging by your post that used EV's value drop 50% after 1.5 years, we would see Atto 3s resale prices at around the $90k region. However, this is not true. Even we factor in the used car dealer's very handsome profit of $15,000 for taking in a used June 2023 Atto 3, it means the original owner should still get get back $129,800 which is 75% of the value of the price he bought the Atto 3 at in June 2023. Unless the used car dealer profits >$50k per Atto 3 (which I seriously doubt so), it is certainly no where near the 50% loss that you had quoted after 1.5 years of use. 

2. Total loss: If any car gets into a accident where the car needs to be written off, wouldn't the owner of the car be compensated by the insurer at fair market value of a similar aged car model in the market? Thus, if we would be reference back the example of a June 2023 Atto 3, why would the owner in this scenario only receive $90k back from the insurer when a similarly aged Atto 3 is retailing at $144,800? 

I am clearly confused thus would greatly appreciate your kind enlightenment on the above! 

I think what @Sdf4786k meant is the residual value (PARF + remaining COE premium upon deregistration).

Using your example of the cat A Atto 3, with an average OMV of $34,000. The original ARF payable is $39,600, but after applying the VES rebate of up to $25,000 and EEAI rebate of up to $15,000, the net ARF payable is $0, which translate to $0 PARF (50% - 75% of ARF paid).

For COE rebate, I guess not many are aware that in the first 2 years, COE rebate is capped at 80% of the premium paid. So if one is so unlucky to totalled his/her ride (with COE premium of say $100,000) on the following day, weeks or months upon registration, he/she will only get back $80,000 max.

Add the PARF & COE rebate and the sum the owner will get back from LTA is $80,000 max. Basing on the current retail price of cat A Atto 3 of ~$165,000, the paper value of a less than 2 years old Atto 3 is indeed less than 50% of the purchase price.

Now about the resale value, what you saw in sgcarmart or other pre-owned car sales websites is somewhat illusionary because the actual transacted price will be lower than advertised price. And if you have sold or traded in a used car before, you will know that the agent / dealer will offer a much lower price (before applying over-trade) than what they have advertised, else how they can make profits out of the deal)? So in reality, a less than 2 years old Atto 3 may only fetch around $120K +/- and as the age increase the lower sales / trade in value it will get.

For totalled case, by right insurance company will have to pay fair market value, but again in reality (I have first hand info with claiming total loss on behalf of a friend, not EV though), insure's payout is really pathetic, even after doing a lot of homework, leg works and banging many tables...

[Chipsahoy8919]

On 11/26/2024 at 4:54 PM, Carbon82 said:

I think what @Sdf4786k meant is the residual value (PARF + remaining COE premium upon deregistration).

Using your example of the cat A Atto 3, which has an average OMV of $34,000. The original ARF payable is $39,600, but with after applying the VES rebate of up to $25,000 and EEAI rebate of up to $15,000 the net ARF is $0, which translate to $0 PARF (50% - 75% of ARF).

For COE rebate, I guess not many are award that in the first 2 years, COE rebate is capped at 80% of the premium paid. So if one is so unlucky to totalled his/her ride (with COE premium of say $100,000) on the following day, weeks or months upon registration, he/she will only get back $80,000 max.

Add the PARF & COE rebate and the sum the owner can get back is $80,000 max. Basing on the current retail price of cat A Atto 3 of ~$165,000 the paper value of a less than 2 years old Atto 3 is indeed less than 50% of the purchase price.

Now about the resale value, what you saw in sgcarmart or other re-owned car websites is kind of an illusion, cause the actual transacted price will be lower than advertised price. And next, if you have sold or traded in a used car, you will know that the agent / dealer will offer a much lower price than what they have advertised (else they make a profits out of the deal). So in reality, a less than 2 years old Atto 3 may only fetch around $120K +/- and as the age increase the lower sales / trade in value it will get.

For totalled case, by right insurance company will have to pay fair market value, but again in reality (I have first hand info with claiming total loss on behalf of a friend), their pay out is pathetic, even after banging lot of tables...

Thanks for chipping in. 

I do understand that the PARF + remaining COE premium at the point of deregistration (especially in Year 0 - 7/8) is always going to be galaxies away from the actual sales price. However, this is a phenomenon that affects all cars, and not just EVs. Thus, the focus for resale cars should really be on the annual depreciation and not the PARF+COE rebates (paper value) at that point in time for a car. The paper value for any car (ICE, hybrids + EV) at the point of sales is always going to be lesser than the actual selling price, but no dealer will ever sell a car to you at paper value nor would a consumer ever be able to buy a car at paper value. Therefore, I really cannot comprehend how this is a valid point in this discussion on the potential resale value of EVs. 

In my car ownership experience, I had traded in a few cars, and in those instances (maybe I am lucky), I had not been 'carrot-ed' by the dealer who is low balling me $10- 30k off the straight line depreciation of my car. Thus, while I understand that the list price (same for properties and even brand new cars) are higher to leave room for negotiation, I do not believe that it would be a massive $10-$30k discount off the listed price. Therefore, I am of the opinion that the resale price of the Atto 3 is truly around the region shown in the sgcarmart listing, subjected to a $5-$8k discount off the list price (for condition/mileage). Again, it is no where near the 50% drop in pricing of a brand new Atto 3 after 1.5 years of usage. 

Solely speaking from personal experiences and not trying to step on anyone's toes. And I am still happily driving my ICE Alphard thus not an Atto 3 owner defending my future resale pricing to the death. 😁

[Jev]

On 11/26/2024 at 5:18 PM, Chipsahoy8919 said:

 Therefore, I am of the opinion that the resale price of the Atto 3 is truly around the region shown in the sgcarmart listing, subjected to a $5-$8k discount off the list price (for condition/mileage). Again, it is no where near the 50% drop in pricing of a brand new Atto 3 after 1.5 years of usage.

This is ballpark. Dealing prices around 5-10k off list, dealers buying it around 15k below list.

 

EVs aren't losing 50% of their value in under 2 years in sg.