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Twincharged
On 2/4/2025 at 10:29 PM, Jev said:

This is misrepresented and there's a reason BYD share price been strong recently.

To put in context, BYD market cap is 100b USD. They have 13b USD of cash on hand, 7b USD of official debts. This ~45B USD of off balance sheet 'debt' is supply chain financing i.e. delayed payment terms to their suppliers. This debt is secured against parts they have received. They turnover 25B USD of cars every quarter.

Ford has a quarterly turnover of 45B USD a quarter and official debts of 160B USD.

I encourage you to do more research and don't believe the sensationalist news from tabloid youtubers. Billions of dollars currently says you are wrong. If you really think they are in financial trouble please go and short them, good luck to you.

that biz model is not wrong... its how the construction industry has been doing... that's why when evergrand went into trouble.. a lot of supplier also face financial stress..

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On 2/5/2025 at 8:52 AM, Beregond said:

Not expert on finance stuff.

I trust my best friend on this. His name is Google.

I ask him . Is toyota in debt. He told me toyota is in 255b debt. 

Now I stress. Should I buy toyota🤯

The concern is not ON Balance Sheet Liabilities.

Rather Off Balance Sheet Liabilities.

Nowadays there are reporting requirements on Off Balance Sheet Liabilities

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On 2/4/2025 at 9:03 PM, Heartlander said:

Did Toyota shamelessly copied all the foreign cars in the early days and rebaged them to be Toyota cars? Yes there are juicy news of covering up here and there but not to the magnitude of what the Chinese companies are doing.

Not all the Chinese in China are not looking in awe at BYD, and the debts totaling > S$100B is real. Look at it from the other angle. If you are buying a property, would you check out the financial health of the developer?  Or you just think highly of them just because their recent launches are nice and beautiful. And couple with how the companies cheated all the way to rise to the top, did it not ring an alarm bell in your head? And cars would need proper support from their makers throughout their life cycle, not something that you just buy and no need anything from the makers after that.

And XPeng and Nio have been losing lots of money every quarter, till now. Their cars might be good, trying to serve restaurant quality food at kopitiam prices, but that made them lose money with every sales. If they reduce quality now, they would be losing the very edge of why some people are flocking to them. Ironic isnt it? And there is no recovery if the Chinese govt decided to pull the heavy subsidy away, unlike BYD that has been able to pull in tiny profit even without the govt subsidy.

Go read the loss it is making even now. In english so that all can understand:

https://ir.xiaopeng.com/zh-hans/news-releases/news-release-details/xpeng-reports-third-quarter-2024-unaudited-financial-results

I am just trying to bring the other side of EV narrative from China to here as some of us do not have good command of the language and do not realise the mess there right now. Despite the very tight censorship where all negative voices are silenced all the time and BYD like to hand out lawsuits to silence any negative flaws regarding its cars, bad news and bad practices are still constantly been leaked out. Go read what I have shared, they are real and not made up stories. Of course you may choose to ignore them or you may choose to put me on ignore list. This is an open forum after all. 

I find it strange that you did not Google on Toyota history before replying to my post. For the benefit of all forum member reading this thread, I will post info from the official source.

Toyota's first passenger car is the Toyoda Model AA passenger car, which was designed in 1935 using the Chevrolet and the Desoto as a reference. (https://www.toyota-global.com/company/history_of_toyota/75years/text/taking_on_the_automotive_business/chapter2/section8/item3_d.html)

During development of the company's first car, the Toyota AA, the company purchased locally manufactured GM and Ford products, reverse engineered them, and hired engineers who had previously worked at the Japanese Ford and GM factories in developing Toyota products. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Toyota)

A picture speaks a thousand words. I shall let all reades decided if Toyota Model AA is a copycat.

Toyota Model AA

1280px-1936_Toyoda_Model_AA_01.jpg

Chevrolet Master Deluxe

1935-chevrolet-master-deluxe

Chrysler Desoto Airflow

1200px-1935_DeSoto_Airflow_(5986948639).

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6th Gear
On 2/5/2025 at 9:38 AM, SGCM928 said:

I find it strange that you did not Google on Toyota history before replying to my post. For the benefit of all forum member reading this thread, I will post info from the official source.

Toyota's first passenger car is the Toyoda Model AA passenger car, which was designed in 1935 using the Chevrolet and the Desoto as a reference. (https://www.toyota-global.com/company/history_of_toyota/75years/text/taking_on_the_automotive_business/chapter2/section8/item3_d.html)

During development of the company's first car, the Toyota AA, the company purchased locally manufactured GM and Ford products, reverse engineered them, and hired engineers who had previously worked at the Japanese Ford and GM factories in developing Toyota products. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Toyota)

A picture speaks a thousand words. I shall let all reades decided if Toyota Model AA is a copycat.

Toyota Model AA

1280px-1936_Toyoda_Model_AA_01.jpg

Chevrolet Master Deluxe

1935-chevrolet-master-deluxe

Chrysler Desoto Airflow

1200px-1935_DeSoto_Airflow_(5986948639).

Japan have been a copycat way before China.

Not only car, many more have been copied before.

They are the expert in enhancing the original, that why alot of ppl mistaken them as the original inventor. 

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On 2/5/2025 at 10:40 AM, Beanoyip said:

This toyota is copy from where?

 Ferrari?

20230412_01_29.webp

"The Crown Sport was previewed as a prototype model in July 2022 alongside the Crossover, Sedan, and Estate models"

"The Ferrari Purosangue (Type F175) is a high-performance luxury SUV by Italian automobile manufacturer Ferrari that was introduced on 13 September 2022."

What do you think?

😂

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Turbocharged
On 2/5/2025 at 1:52 PM, inlinesix said:

"The Crown Sport was previewed as a prototype model in July 2022 alongside the Crossover, Sedan, and Estate models"

"The Ferrari Purosangue (Type F175) is a high-performance luxury SUV by Italian automobile manufacturer Ferrari that was introduced on 13 September 2022."

What do you think?

😂

Means ferrari had it in blueprint way before.. Toyota still in prototype. 

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On 2/5/2025 at 11:47 AM, inlinesix said:

https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/toyota/37540641.html

Prototype is the same as actual production in 2023 le.

Let me throw a curveball. 

The Purosangue was leaked fully naked in February 2022, a good 5 months before Toyota showcase the Crown Sport Concept, which can neither be touched nor driven.

5 months should be more than adequate to develop a clay model at least. 😝

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Hypersonic

Just saw a feedback in their CG on Xpeng after sales svc in Sg… really X Peng San…🤭

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Turbocharged

More gossip contents. Seems rusty metal is the most common complaint owners have of BYD cars. Got time I really have to check out those older BYD cars in carparks if they have this issue also, specifically the door handles area where they are paint bubbles. Hopefully export cars have better parts. I am concerned because I am keen on the Sealion 7 now. Mifa 7 never heard got issues so far. Zeekr Mix got proximity sensor issue that cannot open the doors when park beside kerb.

 

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Turbocharged

Never notice one year ago already announced. Similar door opening design. Must be copying Zeekr Mix. Very shameful.

 

 

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On 2/6/2025 at 8:27 PM, Heartlander said:

More gossip contents. Seems rusty metal is the most common complaint owners have of BYD cars. Got time I really have to check out those older BYD cars in carparks if they have this issue also, specifically the door handles area where they are paint bubbles. Hopefully export cars have better parts. I am concerned because I am keen on the Sealion 7 now. Mifa 7 never heard got issues so far. Zeekr Mix got proximity sensor issue that cannot open the doors when park beside kerb.

 

6bb94c5d35308ac09c12b8d159557671.gif

are-you-done-fc0b1f5a21.jpg

My patience is running out. Go and start your thread on all the gossip about BYD, Xpeng, Zeekr, etc. Leave all the other EV threads alone for some genuine and more meaningful discussions...

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On 1/19/2025 at 6:21 PM, Carbon82 said:

It's not difficult to see who are those whom have an axe to grind against EV. [:|]

It is much like the 2 camp situation when Singapore lowered the road tax surcharge for diesel passenger car, with some arguing that diesel fume is carcinogenic, citing the infamous dieselgate to said that it is a scam. I just laughed...

I am still a fence sitter as ICE or EV, each have their own merits while driving feel is pretty subjective. The only thing I kept harping on is the exorbitant road tax, no thanks to the illogical road tax structure.

But let give credit when due, the Chinese has come a long way and their achievement today is definitely not built on just copying and improvement (Toyota term it Kaizen).

Mark my words, the participants in this great automotive squid game will not be just the Chinese brands. Established Japanese and European brands may get eliminated if they refuse to acknowledge the changes in the automotive scene.

Let look at the report card for EV Sales in Singapore last year.

Chinese EV ranking by sales volume

PiuHCGU.png

Non-Chinese EV ranking by sales volume

v6K3iVQ.png

Note: I was struggling with where to put M.G., Smart and Volvo in the 2 tables, as they are currently all owned by the Chinese. The only difference is that M.G. and Smart are fully designed by the Chinese, while some Volvos are pen by their Swedish team. I may be wrong, please don't flame me. [:)]

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On 2/10/2025 at 2:28 PM, Carbon82 said:

Let look at the report card for EV Sales in Singapore last year.

Chinese EV ranking by sales volume

PiuHCGU.png

Non-Chinese EV ranking by sales volume

v6K3iVQ.png

Note: I was struggling with where to put M.G., Smart and Volvo in the 2 tables, as they are currently all owned by the Chinese. The only difference is that M.G. and Smart are fully designed by the Chinese, while some Volvos are pen by Swedish team. I may be wrong, please don't flame me. [:)]

Most reviews classify polestar as a china car..

Thanks for compiling this by the way. Will be interesting to see how many new model Ys were sold so far too.

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On 2/10/2025 at 2:28 PM, Carbon82 said:

Note: I was struggling with where to put M.G., Smart and Volvo in the 2 tables, as they are currently all owned by the Chinese. The only difference is that M.G. and Smart are fully designed by the Chinese, while some Volvos are pen by their Swedish team. I may be wrong, please don't flame me. [:)]

SMART isn't quite fully designed by Chinese also. As Mercedes did the design while Geely provided the platform. 

Volvo and Polestar are again Swedish designed but assembled in China for cars imported into Singapore. CMA platform underpinning EX40, EC40, Polestar 2 are all Volvo's platform, same as Polestar 3 which is using SPA2 that is 100% Volvo. Special cases are Volvo EX30 and Polestar 4 using Geely's platform. And they are using Google's infotainment software, which is American. 

It's not full Chinese unlike M.G in which SAIC did everything.

But if you group them by country of assembly, then yes the whole lot of them go into the China basket 😄 

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On 2/10/2025 at 2:28 PM, Carbon82 said:

Let look at the report card for EV Sales in Singapore last year.

Chinese EV ranking by sales volume

PiuHCGU.png

Non-Chinese EV ranking by sales volume

v6K3iVQ.png

Note: I was struggling with where to put M.G., Smart and Volvo in the 2 tables, as they are currently all owned by the Chinese. The only difference is that M.G. and Smart are fully designed by the Chinese, while some Volvos are pen by their Swedish team. I may be wrong, please don't flame me. [:)]

My car can be on the rare car thread 🤣

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