Brake Kit at Stamford?

[Sickscientist]

Wah.... Xiong ah...

[Sickscientist]

Yup... Just got to know mine was actually Bestop only...

[Protege]

Go for better ones to get better braking! Bestop according to their chart is just slightly better than stock nia...

[Sickscientist]

I think I'm gonna get the Max 700... Dunno whether there is available stocks...

[Elfenstar]

What does your brake do bro? Braking lah!

 

A big brake kit because of bigger caliper and rotor plus better brake pads improve the braking capability of your car, therefore improve safety.

 

I recall watching a program on MTV about cars and they demonstrated the difference between a Camry stock brake kit vs VTTR 6 pot brake kit. They drive to 100km/h and apply E-Brake. The stopping distance difference between the stock brake kit vs the 6 pot is around 15-20m.

 

Not only that, for my upgrade, I upgraded from the stock 262mm rotor to a forge 330mm caliper. Even the 330mm rotor is much bigger, they are lighter and the calipers are also much lighter compare to stock. Therefore you feel slightly better acceleration compared to stock. Its the same as having lighter rims.

 

Anyway this brake kit already save me twice liao from near accident as I find the current Civic brake not jiak!

 

I mod car for safety, not for speed. So BBK is a good investment as it give you the assurance when braking! However, do note that BBK require bigger rims to clear due to much bigger caliper. So do check whether your current car plus rim can fit or not.

 

Was the camry with the standard brakes using vttr pads or was the 6 pot using the stock toyota pads??? were both cars using the same tyre in the same size? If the answer is no to either then they/you can't say big stops better.

 

Kyojin is also right about the brake balance. Unless it's been adjusted or the bias remains the same, it can throw the car off in some situations.

 

Was the ABS computer on your car adjusted??? If no, then chances are you won't be stopping faster in a situation which uses it (as compared to standard).

 

Also I think you're dreaming on the acceleration coz it is impossible to forge ventilated discs (unless you're using a multi-piece rotor in which the hub is forged). The exception would be if you're using discs with slots as they're manufactured to be near min thickness so there would be (a lot) less metal leading to lower weight. The con to this is that everytime you change your pads, you must change your discs. Forged calipers lighter weight in a BBK as compared to stock is negligible because the calipers are not part of the rotating mass so it more like removing two to three 1l bottles of mineral water from your passenger seat in terms of weight.

 

Finally, stopping power is a combo of the pad and tyre compound. Bigger brakes mean better cooling, and more pistons (in the same size) means better spread of force (so the pad heats up more evenly). Higher friction on the pads means more force in stopping the wheels from turning, and stickier tyre compound means more stopping grip (i.e. less skidding)

 

I reckon you wasted your $$$ (unless you're going for looks) as a better pad and/or tyres and adjusting the brake pedal would have been sufficient to achieve much better stopping power and feel than your BBK (unless your car goes on the track, and then only if your ABS and bias have been adjusted).

Edited December 1, 2007 by Elfenstar

[Elfenstar]

I'm with kyojin on this. read my reply to protoge.

[Elfenstar]

What do big brake kit do? as i have no idea abt it's benefits.

 

None unless you track.

[Protege]

Just call them to check can liao!

[Protege]

Sorry bro. I am not as technical as you. Therefore some questions I am not able to answer.

 

However, I have tried same ride as mine with same tyre and size but with upgraded stainless steel braided hose and Project Miu Bestop pads. And the braking power is nowhere close to what I am getting on my BBK. I did not measure stopping distance though. All on butt feel. But the difference is very big.

 

You have mentioned that without ABS adjusted, I wou't be stopping faster. I have tried numerous time liao and it did stop much faster and at much shorter distance compared to the time when I am just having stock brakes.

 

Anyway I am not here to promote BBK. I am just a happy user of BBK which in 2 weeks save me twice from near accidents. For you, you believe that I have wasted money. For me, I believe I have extracted max value out of my BBK.

 

For those who want to experience the benefits, feel free to test drive the Civic at Kah Motor showroom and then compared to mine and they can tell the difference.

 

Just one last point as well, people have different braking patterns and driving patterns. Some people will be just satisfied with stock brakes, some are happy with the improved brake feel when they upgraded to Stainless Steel Braided Hose and some are happy with SSBH and upgraded brake pads. For me, I am not satisfied with all the above and I am happy with my current BBK. Thats why I am paying for me and I am enjoying the benefits that its providing for me!

Edited December 2, 2007 by Protege

[Devilmaycry]

BBK oh yeah, but mine spoon...supercharge your ride and you're almost there..Rotrex C30 rules

[Protege]

Spoon?? Cool! I cannot afford.

[Sturtles]

Also I think you're dreaming on the acceleration coz it is impossible to forge ventilated discs (unless you're using a multi-piece rotor in which the hub is forged). The exception would be if you're using discs with slots as they're manufactured to be near min thickness so there would be (a lot) less metal leading to lower weight. The con to this is that everytime you change your pads, you must change your discs. Forged calipers lighter weight in a BBK as compared to stock is negligible because the calipers are not part of the rotating mass so it more like removing two to three 1l bottles of mineral water from your passenger seat in terms of weight.

 

Finally, stopping power is a combo of the pad and tyre compound. Bigger brakes mean better cooling, and more pistons (in the same size) means better spread of force (so the pad heats up more evenly). Higher friction on the pads means more force in stopping the wheels from turning, and stickier tyre compound means more stopping grip (i.e. less skidding)

 

I reckon you wasted your $$$ (unless you're going for looks) as a better pad and/or tyres and adjusting the brake pedal would have been sufficient to achieve much better stopping power and feel than your BBK (unless your car goes on the track, and then only if your ABS and bias have been adjusted).

 

 

Your replies seem misleading in some way. At high speeds, and dry roads, the moment between e-braking and ABS coming in is significant.

 

Firstly, a bigger brake rotor will give you better cooling, which you mentioned, but it is not that critical in day to day driving. However, a bigger rotor coupled with the same caliper, but offset to the new rotor diameter will generate a larger braking torque. This improves the response of the brakes, causing the wheel to reduce rpm significantly faster than before, until ABS kicks in.

 

Secondly, BBKs normally come with larger brake calipers, increasing the surface area for kinetic energy to be converted to thermal energy. This again improves braking power, until ABS kicks in.

 

Thirdly, the increased number of pistons allows the driver to gauge the brake application more finely. a single big piston machined to the same shape as the brake pad helps to evenly apply contact with the rotor, but 6 smaller pistons, also machined to fit the pad like a jigsaw puzzle, will be able to do the same action, while giving the driver better control through pedal application, which is important in day to day driving and even more so on tracks.

 

Lastly, ABS is a function of tire grip, so without a good tire, abs will kick in earlier.

 

However, even on cars without good tires, good brakes have already slowed the car down faster at high speeds, compared to a car with good tires, with puny brakes which are unable to generate braking torque required to decelerate the wheels.

 

This is most important difference between good and bad brakes, hence the market for BBKs.

[Kyojin]

i have to disagree with you about the replies being misleading. i think the point is that BBK are not value for money mod for road going cars, and may cause road safety hazard. setting up a proper braking system requires lots of testing and most people do not do that.

 

sure we can argue till the cows come home about how a larger rotor products larger moments. that we don't deny, but car manufacturers do not spend millions of dollars into research and produce a car that is a safety hazard. if problems arise, a recall is sent out immediately.

 

i think many people perform modifications with little regard for consequences (in terms of performance, efficiency and safety). i think a few of us who replied here are concerned about the safety issue. i certainly hope people do not buy blindly into BBKs because it looks cool or because it has the word ENDLESS, BREMBO or Mu on the calipers. in fact, such brand names are so cool that they are selling caliper covers with these brandnames on them!

 

also, most drivers will not feel that kind of response from a 6-pot or 10-pot caliper or know what to do with that kinda feel. if you need that kind of braking feedback, fact of the matter is you are driving way too fast/aggressively for day-to-day driving.

[Kyojin]

bro, i think the issue here is about the reliability of the brakes. of course simple physics tells you that larger rotors gives more stopping power, but the point that people need to understand that changing the brake system will change the brake bias/balance, unless they have been calibrated or researched properly.

 

but at the end of the day, it's really about driving habits. some people think they are driving race cars on the roads, without consideration for the safety of their passengers or other road users. any amount of BBK or grip won't stop them. only an accident will.

[Protege]

Thats true. The most impt is to drive safe. For my case, I have spoken to many Civic user and they all agree that the brake efficiency of the ride is pretty bad. Even at low speed when stuck in traffc jam. I have prob trying to brake efficiently from lets say 20km/h to stop esp after stuck in a lot of start and stop traffic and the brake pads have heated up.

 

Therefore, for me, the brake is really to make sure my family is safe as I am not racer!

[Sturtles]

Of course, any kind of modifications will be a road hazard without proper installation by trained personels. BBKs should identified alone as the problem maker.

 

If you are a Singaporean, you will know that being hit by cars is better off compared to hitting cars, so itself pays instantly, like tires.

 

People who cannot tell the difference between a 1 pot and 6 pot would not be spending 2k changing these items. Full brake kits are one of the biggest item in local car modification scene.

 

Cost a key concern for most mainstream automobile manufacturers, so having just barely sufficient brakes on stock cars are self explainatory.

 

No offence, but the points you have raised seems irrelevant, and can be generically applied to too many areas.

[Kyojin]

no offence taken.

 

but there are many car "enthusiasts" who get mods just because the other guy in his car club got it or his mechanic says it's "better". so i was just trying to be the devil's advocate to point out relevant points so that people won't go around buying into mods they don't need or - worse yet - pose a safety hazard.

 

of course, if you know what you are doing; have done your research; have spent the time and money in making sure that your brake (or any) upgrade is safe, go ahead and mod till the cows come home.

 

but the "generic" points i raised can indeed be applied to many areas that people are ignorant (or choose to be ignorant about).

 

i hope everyone takes it with an open mind. cheers.

[Elfenstar]

Sorry bro. I am not as technical as you. Therefore some questions I am not able to answer.

 

However, I have tried same ride as mine with same tyre and size but with upgraded stainless steel braided hose and Project Miu Bestop pads. And the braking power is nowhere close to what I am getting on my BBK. I did not measure stopping distance though. All on butt feel. But the difference is very big.

 

You have mentioned that without ABS adjusted, I wou't be stopping faster. I have tried numerous time liao and it did stop much faster and at much shorter distance compared to the time when I am just having stock brakes.

 

Anyway I am not here to promote BBK. I am just a happy user of BBK which in 2 weeks save me twice from near accidents. For you, you believe that I have wasted money. For me, I believe I have extracted max value out of my BBK.

 

For those who want to experience the benefits, feel free to test drive the Civic at Kah Motor showroom and then compared to mine and they can tell the difference.

 

Just one last point as well, people have different braking patterns and driving patterns. Some people will be just satisfied with stock brakes, some are happy with the improved brake feel when they upgraded to Stainless Steel Braided Hose and some are happy with SSBH and upgraded brake pads. For me, I am not satisfied with all the above and I am happy with my current BBK. Thats why I am paying for me and I am enjoying the benefits that its providing for me!

 

The initial bite with BBK is indeed better than stock, and that is what makes you feel that you're stopping better.

 

However unless you have done all the alterations necessary your braking distance will be longer than with high performance street parts which costs less.

 

Thats why i say its a waste of $$$. If its for looks then i can't say anything as long as you feel aesthetically it was worth it.