Expert advice on HDB 2004...look at its outcome now!

[Leepee]

Every point raised has being implemented.....look at the outcome....are citizen happy or the gov is happy?

If you are not happy with the increasing property prices, you can go talk to this prof.

 

 

 

MAY 28, 2004

Expert concerned about 100% home ownership

NUS don says move led to policies that distorted market; he also calls for halt to new flats so prices of homes can rise

 

A VETERAN analyst of public housing yesterday took issue with the Government's housing policy, saying the push for 100 per cent home ownership had distorted the market and led to financial hardship for many families.

 

To correct the situation, Professor Chua Beng Huat, who once worked in the Housing Board, called in part for a stop to the building of new flats so as to allow current excess supply to be soaked up.

 

The move will also create a 'shortage' and thus prompt an increase in the price of existing homes.

 

Prof Chua, now a sociologist at the National University of Singapore (NUS), also described the HDB's promise to continue building flats for sale as 'wrong headed'.

 

This was because building more three-room flats to meet current demand would 'only intensify the financial difficulties of households' trying to sell their larger flats.

 

His remarks came in a speech at a forum organised by the NUS Real Estate Department in honour of the late Dr Amos Koh, a former lecturer.

 

Some in the audience of about 100 property professionals, including officers from HDB, were clearly surprised by his frank comments.

 

The real estate market was in its current state because of distortions caused by Government policies to achieve 100 per cent home ownership, Prof Chua said.

 

This approach was itself driven by what he said was the ruling party's 'need for legitimacy to continue its monopolisation of parliamentary, hence political power; a legitimacy that is based on a quid pro quo of improved material life for all in exchange for popular electoral support'.

 

Prof Chua added later: 'The implication of this achievement, is that every household already has a house and the need to move to another place of residence is entirely preferential rather than necessary.'

 

Any new demand for housing is from newlyweds and new immigrants.

 

This combined with low marriage rates and the shrinking of average family sizes has resulted in a 'generalised depression of real estate prices, particularly in the public housing sector and the low-end private housing sector', he argued.

 

Those hardest hit by this state of affairs in the market are the retrenched, those whose businesses have failed and retirees.

 

The solution was a moratorium on new public housing, 'to create a shortage in order to refloat the prices of existing housing,' he said.

 

This would transfer some of the cost of present home ownership to the younger generation and thereby enable retirees to finance their future, he added.

 

He acknowledged that the move to create such a shortage would be unpopular with the younger generation.

 

'However, with their ability to pay still ahead of them, their dissatisfaction will dissipate over time and the political cost to the ruling regime may not be very high,' he said.

 

Prof Chua was also critical of the approach taken to maintain the goal of 100 per cent home ownership through various policies.

 

These were actively discouraging flat rentals; encouraging consumption and upgrading to bigger homes through a resale policy; creating new markets for the older and smaller flats; and maintaining real estate prices above a certain level.

 

Arguing that the State should discard its monopoly over the provision of public housing, he said the HDB should, however, remain a competitor in the housing market.

 

This is because by remaining a player, it would put pressure on the private sector to keep improving the conditions of the housing that it provides.

[Ryosuke]

it's all about the greedy seller/agent trying to make big bucks from the sale.

if the buying of resale flat stops, the prices of it will drop.

 

there's nothing wrong with hdb building more flats.

this problem is due to the huge influx of foreign talents in sgp, whom are not allow to buy new hdb flats.

they have no choice but to get either a 2nd hand hdb flats/pte houses.

these new PRs are cash rich, they are able to outbid most sporeans with more than 20-30k cash.

and this started the new trend of COV.

2 years back, you will never heard someone paying 20k COV for a hdb flat, but now it's sort of a norm thing.

 

how many young couples, those in 20s are able to fork out 20-40k for a hdb flat?

 

"This was because building more three-room flats to meet current demand would 'only intensify the financial difficulties of households' trying to sell their larger flats."

the above statement is total rubbish, larger flats tenants can always sell back to HDB at valuation prices.

those who complains are those greedy ones who are asking for 40K/skyhigh COV and are finding a hard time selling.

 

ultimately, this problem has nothing to do with the below statement, HDB is doing the right thing by building more new flats.

"The real estate market was in its current state because of distortions caused by Government policies to achieve 100 per cent home ownership, Prof Chua said."

Edited December 31, 2009 by Ryosuke

[Arowana1]

2 years back, you will never heard someone paying 20k COV for a hdb flat, but now it's sort of a norm thing.

 

try the 90s before the financial crisis. my fren paid 60k cov for simei 4room.

 

why the young 20s cannot buy direct from hdb? if no 20k cash, most probably combine income under 8k so sure qualify. or too fussy again? all aiming for duxton? dawson?

[Lamemonster]

it's all about the greedy seller/agent trying to make big bucks from the sale.

if the buying of resale flat stops, the prices of it will drop.

 

there's nothing wrong with hdb building more flats.

this problem is due to the huge influx of foreign talents in sgp, whom are not allow to buy new hdb flats.

they have no choice but to get either a 2nd hand hdb flats/pte houses.

these new PRs are cash rich, they are able to outbid most sporeans with more than 20-30k cash.

and this started the new trend of COV.

2 years back, you will never heard someone paying 20k COV for a hdb flat, but now it's sort of a norm thing.

 

how many young couples, those in 20s are able to fork out 20-40k for a hdb flat?

 

"This was because building more three-room flats to meet current demand would 'only intensify the financial difficulties of households' trying to sell their larger flats."

the above statement is total rubbish, larger flats tenants can always sell back to HDB at valuation prices.

those who complains are those greedy ones who are asking for 40K/skyhigh COV and are finding a hard time selling.

 

ultimately, this problem has nothing to do with the below statement, HDB is doing the right thing by building more new flats.

"The real estate market was in its current state because of distortions caused by Government policies to achieve 100 per cent home ownership, Prof Chua said."

[/quote

 

totally agreed with ur comment ! !

 

 

[Ender]

The prof has his wish come true.. Don't think many young singaporean or any one looking for HDB is happy with the current situation.

[Joseph22]

it's all about the greedy seller/agent trying to make big bucks from the sale.

if the buying of resale flat stops, the prices of it will drop.

 

there's nothing wrong with hdb building more flats.

this problem is due to the huge influx of foreign talents in sgp, whom are not allow to buy new hdb flats.

they have no choice but to get either a 2nd hand hdb flats/pte houses.

these new PRs are cash rich, they are able to outbid most sporeans with more than 20-30k cash.

and this started the new trend of COV.

2 years back, you will never heard someone paying 20k COV for a hdb flat, but now it's sort of a norm thing.

 

how many young couples, those in 20s are able to fork out 20-40k for a hdb flat?

 

"This was because building more three-room flats to meet current demand would 'only intensify the financial difficulties of households' trying to sell their larger flats."

the above statement is total rubbish, larger flats tenants can always sell back to HDB at valuation prices.

those who complains are those greedy ones who are asking for 40K/skyhigh COV and are finding a hard time selling.

 

ultimately, this problem has nothing to do with the below statement, HDB is doing the right thing by building more new flats.

"The real estate market was in its current state because of distortions caused by Government policies to achieve 100 per cent home ownership, Prof Chua said."

 

 

What you fail to see is this. HDB build more flat. Everyone rush to duxton. then complain not enough flat at duxton while there are alot of flat at jurong and woodlands that ppl dont want to take. that is what happen in 2004.

Also, you dont seems to understand how COV come about. before the current COV ruling come in. COV can go as high as wat you want. But the different is ppl can pay the COV from CPF. Its only when government remove that rights to use CPF to pay for COV then did COV become a hugh problem.

[Ryosuke]

What you fail to see is this. HDB build more flat. Everyone rush to duxton. then complain not enough flat at duxton while there are alot of flat at jurong and woodlands that ppl dont want to take. that is what happen in 2004.

Also, you dont seems to understand how COV come about. before the current COV ruling come in. COV can go as high as wat you want. But the different is ppl can pay the COV from CPF. Its only when government remove that rights to use CPF to pay for COV then did COV become a hugh problem.

 

had you seen the application for all hdb BTOs regardless of area not only dawson lately?

all the 4rm/5rm are over subscribed in whichever areas.

 

and also, can you pls enlighten me whether the 2004 vacant flats in jurong/woodlands.

has the occupancy rates for those vacant rates reached more than 80% or fully occupied now?

 

but, you had really enlighten me on paying COV via CPF.

i really didn't know that.thanks.

[Espire]

u r right....

[Espire]

Every point raised has being implemented.....look at the outcome....are citizen happy or the gov is happy?

If you are not happy with the increasing property prices, you can go talk to this prof.

 

 

 

MAY 28, 2004

Expert concerned about 100% home ownership

NUS don says move led to policies that distorted market; he also calls for halt to new flats so prices of homes can rise

 

A VETERAN analyst of public housing yesterday took issue with the Government's housing policy, saying the push for 100 per cent home ownership had distorted the market and led to financial hardship for many families.

 

To correct the situation, Professor Chua Beng Huat, who once worked in the Housing Board, called in part for a stop to the building of new flats so as to allow current excess supply to be soaked up.

 

The move will also create a 'shortage' and thus prompt an increase in the price of existing homes.

 

Prof Chua, now a sociologist at the National University of Singapore (NUS), also described the HDB's promise to continue building flats for sale as 'wrong headed'.

 

This was because building more three-room flats to meet current demand would 'only intensify the financial difficulties of households' trying to sell their larger flats.

 

His remarks came in a speech at a forum organised by the NUS Real Estate Department in honour of the late Dr Amos Koh, a former lecturer.

 

Some in the audience of about 100 property professionals, including officers from HDB, were clearly surprised by his frank comments.

 

The real estate market was in its current state because of distortions caused by Government policies to achieve 100 per cent home ownership, Prof Chua said.

 

This approach was itself driven by what he said was the ruling party's 'need for legitimacy to continue its monopolisation of parliamentary, hence political power; a legitimacy that is based on a quid pro quo of improved material life for all in exchange for popular electoral support'.

 

Prof Chua added later: 'The implication of this achievement, is that every household already has a house and the need to move to another place of residence is entirely preferential rather than necessary.'

 

Any new demand for housing is from newlyweds and new immigrants.

 

This combined with low marriage rates and the shrinking of average family sizes has resulted in a 'generalised depression of real estate prices, particularly in the public housing sector and the low-end private housing sector', he argued.

 

Those hardest hit by this state of affairs in the market are the retrenched, those whose businesses have failed and retirees.

 

The solution was a moratorium on new public housing, 'to create a shortage in order to refloat the prices of existing housing,' he said.

 

This would transfer some of the cost of present home ownership to the younger generation and thereby enable retirees to finance their future, he added.

 

He acknowledged that the move to create such a shortage would be unpopular with the younger generation.

 

'However, with their ability to pay still ahead of them, their dissatisfaction will dissipate over time and the political cost to the ruling regime may not be very high,' he said.

 

Prof Chua was also critical of the approach taken to maintain the goal of 100 per cent home ownership through various policies.

 

These were actively discouraging flat rentals; encouraging consumption and upgrading to bigger homes through a resale policy; creating new markets for the older and smaller flats; and maintaining real estate prices above a certain level.

 

Arguing that the State should discard its monopoly over the provision of public housing, he said the HDB should, however, remain a competitor in the housing market.

 

This is because by remaining a player, it would put pressure on the private sector to keep improving the conditions of the housing that it provides.

 

 

Professor Chua Beng Huat is Singaporean. Like most Singapore students during his secondary school days, he studied for BSc in Biology and Chemistry in his undergraduate. After completing his degree, he realized that the isolated life of a lab scientist is not for him and switched to postgraduate study in Sociology. After obtaining his MA and PhD in Sociology from York University, Canada, he stayed on in Canada and taught at Trent University, Ontario. He returned to Singapore in 1984 to take up the Director of Research post at the HDB but was fired from that job for his critical writings on Singapore politics. He joined NUS subsequently and has been here since 1985.

 

http://profile.nus.edu.sg/fass/soccbh/index.htm

[Tigerwoods]

had you seen the application for all hdb BTOs regardless of area not only dawson lately?

all the 4rm/5rm are over subscribed in whichever areas.

Sporeans are very predictable.

In 1998 crisis, People don't want to buy 5rm, Executive Flat and all go for 3rm, 4rm flat.

At one stage, 4rm flat price UP UP UP almost close to 5rm.

 

When economy improves, everyone go after 5rm flats - look at the market now ? all go for 5rm, HDB, BTO and resale.

 

So if you want to make good money, do the Opposite.

 

I bought 5rm when everyone go for 4rm and I got my place at cheap price.

Now I think of selling my 5rm and go for 4rm as few people wanna buy - but I want to wait longer as its gonna be better next year onwards.

 

 

 

 

 

[Joseph22]

had you seen the application for all hdb BTOs regardless of area not only dawson lately?

all the 4rm/5rm are over subscribed in whichever areas.

 

If you notice the over subscribe rate of the flat in both region, you will realise that duxton or so call mature estate with good location are more over subscribe but due to the high cost, ppl are force to go for those at the out skirt.

 

and also, can you pls enlighten me whether the 2004 vacant flats in jurong/woodlands.

has the occupancy rates for those vacant rates reached more than 80% or fully occupied now?

They are currently fully subscribe, but not due to because they want to leave there. the main reason are because HDB stop building flat in advance and only resort to BTO and the continue raising price of houses in mature estate.

 

 

but, you had really enlighten me on paying COV via CPF.

i really didn't know that.thanks.

No problem, i believe you are around the same age as me, hence you are not aware of the rule change, this practise was to curb cash kick back for the buyer.

 

 

 

personally, i felt hdb should do pre build at jurong and woodlands area and BTO at mature estate.

Edited January 1, 2010 by Joseph22

[Ahhuat]

The HDB should just shut down. It's fulfilled it's role of providing 80% of sg with affordable housing back in the 70s and early 80s. Why did they carry on providing housing instead of leaving it to the pte sector just like any other country? Why did someone who could afford a massionette require PUBLIC housing? Now we've got a weak bunch of ppl barking up the govt's tree asking for housing every single time. Not just that, they want the best location, best floor, best view for almost no $$. All too happy for their lovely homes to be paid from someone else's tax dollars.

 

Tear down the old hdb flats and release the land to pte developers. Repossess some flats and open it as rental units to the really needy. The rest of the ppl should just go find their own housing like everyone in NY, Tokyo and HKG does. No metropolis I know of in this planet has a government that provides housing the way our PAmPering govt does. Mebbe then we'll have a more resiliant society which doesnt have to rely on FT to do their jobs, and do it more efficiently.

[Saycheese78]

Sounds like someone who cannot buy HDB flat cos of high income (prof income) making irresponsible remarks and result in whole world suffering. Or maybe he got a flat and trying to sell. sigh.

[Tt_hh]

paid 29k cov.... fark the garhment and hdb..... will vote for hammer

[Joseph22]

actually i just heard from my mother, about 25 years ago, they wanted to buy 3 room flat at boon lay resake. valuation at 22K. cov 8K.

[Relagsingh]

can use CPF for COV now?

 

really??

[Ahhuat]

Sounds like someone who cannot buy HDB flat cos of high income (prof income) making irresponsible remarks and result in whole world suffering. Or maybe he got a flat and trying to sell. sigh.

 

no leh. Combined salary below $8k and own a HDB. Not even 5 yrs yet and thus cant sell even if I wanted to. Whole family owns HDB, nobody ever owned pte housing.

 

Yet, I donno, perhaps it's exposure to things beyond Singapore that tells me that the housing deal here is artificially tooooo good (as compared to my frens living in other cities). It creates a very dependent society and it makes it very difficult for people to rise up and it also makes it very difficult for people to garner the right skills survive overseas. My frens oseas (even in asian cities) find their own housing and compete fiercely for it. While yes, they have a tough time and we might not want it, I just find them a more resiliant bunch overall.

 

I'm all for the deregulation of housing. HDB sells off it's land. Land for housing is sold to developers at special rates and they are then bound by rules to keep the cost of housing low. Then let there truly be a free market. Good or bad, deal with the developer. Now it's like all suan the HDB yet got no b@lls to live in the real world where ppl deal with landlords and pte developers. Realistically, it's either all suck thumb and live in a world where we are at the mercy of the HDB and all its agenda, or grow up and live in the real world and not have to deal with 'one size fits all' policies of public housing.

[Waffenss]

The HDB should just shut down. It's fulfilled it's role of providing 80% of sg with affordable housing back in the 70s and early 80s. Why did they carry on providing housing instead of leaving it to the pte sector just like any other country? Why did someone who could afford a massionette require PUBLIC housing? Now we've got a weak bunch of ppl barking up the govt's tree asking for housing every single time. Not just that, they want the best location, best floor, best view for almost no $$. All too happy for their lovely homes to be paid from someone else's tax dollars.

 

Tear down the old hdb flats and release the land to pte developers. Repossess some flats and open it as rental units to the really needy. The rest of the ppl should just go find their own housing like everyone in NY, Tokyo and HKG does. No metropolis I know of in this planet has a government that provides housing the way our PAmPering govt does. Mebbe then we'll have a more resiliant society which doesnt have to rely on FT to do their jobs, and do it more efficiently.

 

Well said bro, I agree with you.