STOP Abusing Borneo SE.....

[Canman42]

Hi all,

 

I started this thread because I realize that there are many people who have been affected by the Borneo CNY Fiasco....for those who do not know what I am talking about this thread is not for you!

 

Please stop abusing the Borneo Motors SEs....the real idiots behind this mess are those hiding behind them....

I urge you to direct your anger at them instead....

 

[email protected]

 

I am directing these questions to Borneo Motor MD, Mr. Koh Chin Hong:

 

1. How many CNY Promotion Orders did Borneo Motors take in? Was it sincere in wanting to fulfill them?

2. Of this number how many had to TOP UP?

3. How many got their cars eventually?

4. Why didn't Borneo bid earlier when COEs were lower? COEs can be kept 6 months...no need to wait till vehicle has arrived.....

 

I urge all who were affected to continue voicing their disatisfaction with Borneo...DO NOT LET THEM GET AWAY SCOT FREE? Otherwise next time even the other dealers will follow their example...and buying car becomes like buying lottery....

 

Andrew

 

Bro,

 

if cannot get mr koh, go direct to toyota japan, i think they are more concerned with toyota's reputation in singapore and are likely to act. this is a major screw up by thier agent (BM) in singapore and they should know about it.

 

i was lucky, coz was so near to booking a wish with them but changed my mind and booked a tucson instead. have been driving it around 1 month liao! cheers and good luck to bros that have gone with BM!

Edited April 10, 2010 by Canman42

[Beehive3783]

But the curious thing is that why is it only the Borneo customers who are whining...why?

Go ask the customers lo, ask me for fark.. i'm not a fortune teller

[Beehive3783]

Bro,

 

if cannot get mr koh, go direct to toyota japan, i think they are more concerned with toyota's reputation in singapore and are likely to act. this is a major screw up by thier agent (BM) in singapore and they should know about it.

 

i was lucky, coz was so near to booking a wish with them but changed my mind and booked a tucson instead. have been driving it around 1 month liao! cheers and good luck to bros that have gone with BM!

singapore market is smaller than a real life green pea.. u think Toyota will care about what's going on here? At the most they change the AD because sales target not realised.

Edited April 10, 2010 by Beehive3783

[Andrewlai]

Sorry to have hurt your feelings...I really wasn't trying to be sarcastic...I am really wondering how come there are no complaints from customers of other dealers....why?

[Andrewlai]

Sorry to have hurt your feelings...I really wasn't trying to be sarcastic...I am really wondering how come there are no complaints from customers of other dealers....why?

[Ben5266]

becasue of the 6k discount?

low profit margin? but does that matters?

TCM gave $10k discount with negative margin and almost all got their COE can car. Yes, it was in Oct/Nov, before the huge climb.

So, TCM management timed it correctly to clear old stock.

BM reacted late and completely miss timed.

Yes, those who rush in to buy after Jan also miss timed.

[Maldini03]

Honestly, I didn't know until now.

My previous purchases, all bid on 1st bid and got COE. 1 time need to top up $250, that was 6 years ago. So, I am assuming when I signed the purchase agreement, the AD will bid on the immediate upcoming round.

It is a surprise to me when everybody mention that it is normal for BM to sit on it for 4-5 rounds.

 

Frankly speaking, I also probably assume that you dun know. Last time car owner manage to get it because the Profit margin is high. When COE hike is higher then BM buffer, it eats into their profit margin. but low profits beats no profit. But yr case is since BM gives a discount of 6k their profit margin is lower, henceforth, no profit is better than losses. bad luck for you.

 

I share yr unhappyiness but it is realli the way of life. You cannot make a good decision without the aid of knowledge.

 

Life is nvr fair or good will. Good will is a favour not a obiligation. Otherwise there is no contract. Depend on how you see life.

 

You are unlucky this time round.

[Lufu]

I sincerely hope people won't be so harsh to Andrew. Reason and Argue your points but don't attack the person. We learn from others' experience and vice versa. Again, just my personal opinion, people obviously say whatever they like. Its free anyway.

 

I have to agree that BM SEs are the ones bearing the blunt from customers but this could be a management stuff up. I heard when Lehman collapse, relationship managers even received death threats.

 

 

The crux of the issue here is BM took in more orders than they can swallow from the CNY sale. BM will never bid for the COE when the delivery date is still far off, nevermind COE is valid for 6mths. Imagine if you've 200 orders. Each COE, assuming $20K a pop. That is 4 million dollars in cash tie up with LTA. Remember the bank will never disperse the loan until the car is registered, they need a collateral against their loan.

 

BM works on a DELL model. They only order when you pay the deposit, which is why the 3 months lead time for car collection. Granted there are occasional exceptions when they have ready stock (customer cancel order and so on). From BM business cash flow perspective, they won't tie up $4M dollars of their own funds in COE even if they can afford to.

 

Which is again the reason they bid closer to the date when customer's car are due to arrive.

 

This business model works perfectly well thus far. They can still fulfill their orders even with COE fluctuation, however the last COE up swing was way too drastic for them to handle. The percentage of increase and the number of orders they have to fulfill.

 

Right from the start, this is a disaster in the making. The business model cannot change/react fast enough to the change in Govt COE policy. Yes they knew COE quota will be cut, they were probably hoping the cut won't be so drastic and they can still fulfill the orders.

 

After all, they have a contingency plan (the clauses in their contract protecting them). In the worst case scenario, they'll simply not fulfill the orders.

They took a gamble, if they win, good. Lots of orders to fulfill, Toyota will make it to the top seller list again.

If they lost, customer will bear the losses. Although they probably knew this is a very high risk gamble. Offering huge CNY discount during Jan 10 in the face of changing COE quota Apr 10.

 

This is a very shrew business strategy but again, this would have been a lot different had they won. Unfortunately, they didn't.

 

Just my personal point of view from another 'uneducated' buyer affected by this BM fiasco. Again if you followed the thread I started, you would have realised, I've accepted this as my mistake and moved on. This whole finger pointing can never change the fact that I did not sign on for the guaranteed package regardless whether the SE mislead me or not. Expensive lesson for a newbie uneducated car buyer who never understood the meaning of 3 months 6 bids until this incident.

 

Borneo Motors

Edited April 10, 2010 by Lufu

[Jman888]

singapore market is smaller than a real life green pea.. u think Toyota will care about what's going on here? At the most they change the AD because sales target not realised.

 

toyota chairman will come here ...... to congratuate the MD for a good job when Toyota is suffering brand damage in other countries due go the recall crisis, only in sg that many still fighting to get their car [laugh]

[The_Bear]

Yes. But a buyer who gets his own COE before car-shopping will almost always be disadvantaged in the current system. After COE prices stabilise, he will still be paying at least 2-3k more for his car than somebody who took the package deal.

 

Which is why the gahmen needs to immediately OUTLAW dealer-bidded COEs. Remove open cat COEs which would make all car COEs non-transferable. You want a car, bid your own COE, then go to a dealer, who's only authorised to sell you that hunk of metal.

 

Lazy-arse buyers need not apply - being lazy is what brought us to live under the mercy of the dealerships and the gahmen.

 

which rises another problem. Assuming buyer has a COE b4 he goes shopping. The COE is valid only for six months. The following can happen:

 

1) Dealer rises price of car knowing that buyer got not much time & choice to bargain

2) Delivery of car is delayed and COE expires

3) Buyers without the cash up front to bid COE

 

This COE & Car is like an egg and chicken situation.

 

Dealers need to constantly strategize to minimize their risk and Buyers beware.

[Pisces]

The crux of the issue here is BM took in more orders than they can swallow from the CNY sale. BM will never bid for the COE when the delivery date is still far off, nevermind COE is valid for 6mths. Imagine if you've 200 orders. Each COE, assuming $20K a pop. That is 4 million dollars in cash tie up with LTA. Remember the bank will never disperse the loan until the car is registered, they need a collateral against their loan.

If I'm not wrong, it's $5K COE deposit until the car is registered.

But I must agree that it's still not a small sum assuming there's 200 orders with COE bidded and waiting for stocks to arrive.

[SLing]

Look at today's and yesterday's car ads in the newspapers. Do you see the newly created "Borneo Motors Effect"? Every other car dealer is now guaranteeing delivery. I am still waiting to see Borneo's ad for this weekend. Will it guarantee delivery too?

 

You all better not complain too much. THEre was a letter in the ST forum suggesting that COE be issued to the buyer, not the car. AD cannot bid any more if the govt decides to implement this.

 

Not only will it be inconvenient, the AD would have lost the change to make a few extra thousands

[Lufu]

If I'm not wrong, it's $5K COE deposit until the car is registered.

But I must agree that it's still not a small sum assuming there's 200 orders with COE bidded and waiting for stocks to arrive.

 

Thanks for correcting my mistake. Yes you're right, I confirmed by reading up COE bidding from one.motoring.

Deposit is $5K, the balance is only payable upon registration.

[Beehive3783]

Sorry to have hurt your feelings...I really wasn't trying to be sarcastic...I am really wondering how come there are no complaints from customers of other dealers....why?

hurt my feelings? I'm laughing at you dude! what hurt?

[Andrewlai]

Many thanks for the words of encouragement!

For those who oppose it, I also welcome well-reasoned comments....We want to make this the NUMBER 1 thread!

Hopefully Borneo's MD will respond...does someone out there have his email?

[Andrewlai]

Thanks for your support of this thread...keep up the good work...I want to make this the number 1 thread....

[Yattokame]

I bought 4D and TOTO.

 

They told me if I win I will get a lot of money.

 

They didn't even offer me guaranteed win option. The salesperson laughed at me and told me no such option.

 

Then over the weekend, my friends won something each. I did not win anything.

 

I am going to bitch here and complain to singapore pools CEO.

 

 

[Mcfmun]

which rises another problem. Assuming buyer has a COE b4 he goes shopping. The COE is valid only for six months. The following can happen:

 

1) Dealer rises price of car knowing that buyer got not much time & choice to bargain

2) Delivery of car is delayed and COE expires

3) Buyers without the cash up front to bid COE

 

This COE & Car is like an egg and chicken situation.

 

Dealers need to constantly strategize to minimize their risk and Buyers beware.

 

If the quota is based on the numbers deregistered, there is no need to make the COE valid for 6 months. I hope to see LTA require bidders to bid in full. this will surely make everyone think twice before bidding.

 

Better still, make bidders pay for what they bid, even if the strike price is much cheaper.

 

I cannot see why LTA cannot implement this even if this means less money into the Govt coffers. They can always recover from other motor-related means, such as usage charges.