Used car dealers tampering odometer readings

[Daniu82]

Agreed. My new car is at 20k plus but I already done 40k servicing cos low mileage and I follow 6 months servicing once.

 

There might be some truth in the mileage. Look at the attachment, right hand side with the vehicle details. The car was sent in to the AD for servicing on 6 June 2018 at 14,537 km. 

 

The problem with ADs is the servicing policy is either time or mileage, whichever comes first. So even if your car is at 5k, they will still put you on the 10k servicing package. So this owner has low mileage but if he follows the 6 monthly servicing routine, they will keep giving him the next servicing mileage package. 

 

[Ct3833]

Slightly more than a year ago I traded my Citroen C5 for another car. Mileage was recorded as 128k km after driving for 6 years. I was the first owner. after a few days, I saw an ad in SGCarmart for my Citroen. Mileage altered to 80K km. No point whistle blowing the company that I traded with but just to show everyone that most of them will adjust to suit the buyers(feel good factor). As for me, I drove the traded car to my mechanic to evaluate it's condition. So I bought the car as I trust my mechanic but after knowing that the mileage of my Citroen was tampered, I kinda wonder about the actual mileage of the car I bought from them. Ignorant is a bliss.

You have a good point , having a dependable mechanic is important. And it is important to go in with eyes open. I have been buying used car(dont laugh, I boh lui) and i am still do not have confidence when dealing with these people though i am already quite selective in who i want to deal with .

And mileage wise, while it is not right for the dealers to unwind the mileage, it is also not wrong for them to do so because mata also wont catch. It is a common practice.

Edited December 11, 2018 by Ct3833

[1fast1]

Same with my AMG GT. Luckily it wasn't too far off since my handover mileage was low to begin with, but now I know why my dealer friend refused to take over my extremely detailed service records with CnC.

 

I believe my McLaren mileage is likely to be accurate as its a single owner car bought directly from McLaren with a full service history from the dealer that tallies with the mileage. That's one of the main reasons I opted to pay the price premium of buying straight from them rather than one of the units from a third party used dealer.

 

By the way, I would never condone this but I've heard of some exotic car owners taking their cars in to shady dealers to get their clocks rolled back *before* they go in for servicing by AD. It's not a big quantum but the effect is obviously cumulative. The AD will obviously be none the wiser and resale would be better with seemingly perfect service records backing up the "low" mileage.

 

I've heard of this (rumour only) occurring on some Ferraris. Never with a McLaren but one never knows, and even I can't be sure (which is why I said "believe" and "likely" and not "know" and "definitely" earlier). Without better regulation of the car industry here, it's a crapshoot.

[Showster]

A good used car would have servicing frequency of once every half year, unless OPCs which still should be serviced annually I feel.

[Othello]

I once asked a dealer after taking over the car "ok, now can you tell me if mileage was tampered?" 

 

imo, the only danger in mileage tampering is the timing belt. 

 

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and of course he said NO 

[1fast1]

Modern cars do have the true mileage stored in electronic form in the ECU or TCU (transmission control unit).

 

The first difficulty is in finding a qualified technician with equipment specialised enough to do a read out. Ordinary OBD II/CANBUS can't hack it I think.

 

The second, and altogether more serious, difficulty is in getting the second hand dealer to agree to this. In most cases a PPI in Singapore doesn't involve going down to this depth of detail. I think if you even ask the question and sound semi-serious, most dealers would ask you to take a hike rather than agree. The rare ones that agree will still collect a deposit, still make you pay for the PPI and mileage readout and still act blur and innocent when you find a discrepancy.

 

Whole damn system is crooked.

Edited December 11, 2018 by Turboflat4

[inlinesix]

Modern cars do have the true mileage stored in electronic form in the ECU or TCU (transmission control unit).

 

The first difficulty is in finding a qualified technician with equipment specialised enough to do a read out. Ordinary OBD II/CANBUS can't hack it I think.

 

The second, and altogether more serious, difficulty is in getting the second hand dealer to agree to this. In most cases a PPI in Singapore doesn't involve going down to this depth of detail. I think if you even ask the question and sound semi-serious, most dealers would ask you to take a hike rather than agree. The rare ones that agree will still collect a deposit, still make you pay for the PPI and mileage readout and still act blur and innocent when you find a discrepancy.

 

Whole damn system is crooked.

This country has no consumer protection.

[RogerNg_185295]

This country has no consumer protection.

Have but not strong

[sHy3r]

Lets put it to a case where original owners want higher price for trade in... and dealers who buy in have to tune the milege to sell higher. Asked if the original owners will verify? Answer likely is no. Cos there might be 1-to-1 agreement or original owners does not want to involve in this situation, especially they had sold the car to the dealer.

 

Even if u send in to AD for servicing, they wont tell u the previous owner’s milege... they will only overwrite the updated current milege.

[1fast1]

Lets put it to a case where original owners want higher price for trade in... and dealers who buy in have to tune the milege to sell higher. Asked if the original owners will verify? Answer likely is no. Cos there might be 1-to-1 agreement or original owners does not want to involve in this situation, especially they had sold the car to the dealer.

 

Even if u send in to AD for servicing, they wont tell u the previous ownerâs milege... they will only overwrite the updated current milege.

To the last paragraph, not true for all cases.

 

Both exotics I bought used - my Ferrari before and my current McLaren - I was able to get a full service history from the AD (wherever the car actually had contact with the AD). For the F430, that even included clutch wear percentage, since that was a concern with the F1 transmission.

 

For used non-exotics, I've never tried ('cos not that important). For more expensive cars, I tend to buy single owner direct or via consignment where possible to minimise handover uncertainty issues. Even for consignment, I make it a point to chat with the owner (usually with dealer present).

Edited December 11, 2018 by Turboflat4

[walkofwinners]

Always better to buy from direct owner instead of "teacher owner, retiree owner to fetch kids, used by parents to fetch maid to market" blahblah nonsense.

 

Another tip is to get the direct owner to drive you so that you can evaluate his driving style and how much tlc is given to the car.

[Atankh]

Sold my pte hire car to dealer, dealer put car for sale on sgcarmart mileage adjusted by 100k km

[Fastfive1]

Haha yall have no idea how cheap it is to tamper with the mileage. Dealers always say "if i want, I can pay 500 dollars to change the mileage but why would I since it eats into my profits, I rather give an honest deal, etc". bulls**t la. It costs under 100 bucks to tamper with the mileage. There are people who specialise in this and these people are damn rich. Before I sell my car, I will ask my car dealer friend for his contact to adjust my mileage and sell to someone else.

 

By the way AutoPrestige at turf city that takes in a lot fo BMW F10s usually adjusts the the mileage. You must see the cars that they bid on. The mileage of these cars are higher than what eventually appears on Sgcarmart. They never have servicing records on most of their cars because the mileage all fake one. 

[Hoseyboh]

Haha yall have no idea how cheap it is to tamper with the mileage. Dealers always say "if i want, I can pay 500 dollars to change the mileage but why would I since it eats into my profits, I rather give an honest deal, etc". bulls**t la. It costs under 100 bucks to tamper with the mileage. There are people who specialise in this and these people are damn rich. Before I sell my car, I will ask my car dealer friend for his contact to adjust my mileage and sell to someone else.

 

By the way AutoPrestige at turf city that takes in a lot fo BMW F10s usually adjusts the the mileage. You must see the cars that they bid on. The mileage of these cars are higher than what eventually appears on Sgcarmart. They never have servicing records on most of their cars because the mileage all fake one.

Walau eh, don't do this lah....My friend's car mileage high ask me to kai seow people to adjust the mileage before selling, I told him off...

[Fcw75]

I once asked a dealer after taking over the car "ok, now can you tell me if mileage was tampered?"

 

imo, the only danger in mileage tampering is the timing belt.

 

.

.

.

.

 

and of course he said NO

Buy a car with timing chain?

[Fastfive1]

Walau eh, don't do this lah....My friend's car mileage high ask me to kai seow people to adjust the mileage before selling, I told him off...

[RogerNg_185295]

Sold my pte hire car to dealer, dealer put car for sale on sgcarmart mileage adjusted by 100k km

Which dealer?

[Budgetdriver]

Buy a car with timing chain? ð

That's why used Toyotas are so popular, coz most are running chains.

 

Actually you can rev the engine and listen carefully especially when the rpm is dropping. Compare a few cars of the same model you can tell the difference. Best is get a trusted mechanic along.

 

All this is still happening because there are still people willing to pay more for "low mileage" cars driven by "careful lady driver" to "buy groceries less than 5km km away". Don't know hear this how many times already.

Edited December 12, 2018 by Budgetdriver