2013 Lexus GS caught undisguised

[Natnut]

 

Ultimately facts speak for themselves. You can talk about brand recognition, whether girls like which brand better, how you feel behind the steering wheel etc.

 

What doesn't change is that the numbers don't lie : BMW has poorer handling as measured by cornering G's, slalom speed, evasive manoeuvering speed, 0-60mph acceleration, high end 1/4 mile acceleration, braking distance.

 

I like how the moderator diverted the topic to the Japanese brand sub-forum when the objective facts don't favor BMW. Who's the BMWnazi now?

 

For years, BMW can justify poorer after-sales service, expensive repairs and poor reliability by their superior performance and handling

 

NOT ANY MORE.

 

Before anyone accuses me of being a secret Lexus sales-man, just answer this question : is any of the handling and performance data I posted untrue?

 

Argue facts with facts. Don't just hide behind "feel" and "heritage". Like I said before, I judge cars based on current performance, not on reputation or hype.

 

In this case, BMW is the epitome of over-ratedness considering that its reputation is built on handling and performance and yet it is losing based on the very same yardsticks its reputation is based on.

[Zyklon]

what about putting this key fob on the office table if it is 100bhp car green car in the future?

anyway, i recall a funny scene on speed dating that a long table with girls on one side and boys on one side

and all the boys put their car key on the table immediately they sat down

 

btw, i agree that buying car has to satisfy 2 major criteria .... status (shiokness) and performance

and in terms of weightage i'm sure everyone has a difference scale ... no right or wrong

 

Put a porky key fob only attract guys and gcp nia...

 

To most non-car folks, whether 8 years old or 80 years old, number 1 brand is 3 pointed star. Number 2 is blue white propeller.

[Zyklon]

What doesn't change is that the numbers don't lie : BMW has poorer handling as measured by cornering G's, slalom speed, evasive manoeuvering speed, 0-60mph acceleration, high end 1/4 mile acceleration, braking distance.

 

This is the problem.

 

I didn't feel that measured numercial paper advantage of the lexus during the test drive.

 

All I felt was an average car that feels really suited to city driving, and a pair of dye transfer stained leather seats.

[Zyklon]

Anyway what is the current price of the gs350 luxury?

[Voodooman]

Lexus and BMW are neck to neck in the US in terms of sales (one of the world's toughest car market) but in Asia (or at least in Singapore), Lexus is behind due to better BMW branding and marketing, the high Yen in recent years does not help as well. Think deeper.... Asians like angmo high end brands more at the back of our sub conscious minds, so even if Lexus can make good luxurious cars with superb handling, the Jap will still lose, they need to make freaking good cars to capture the crown, it had to beat the competitors by a mile, at least. Based on the GS350 many excellent reviews and supported by its bullet proof reliability, it has a fighting chance but it is still not good enough to convert the many BMW fanboys, unless Abe can cheapen the Yen so much to entice people to start buying discounted Lexus again. In a nutshell, same handling with better reliability, price needs to be attractive. 崇洋媚外, it is a tough market for Lexus in Asia.

 

[Natnut]

Know you are a lexus fanboy, but still...

 

You need to consider what tyres, options and package were tested.

 

Bmw actually has adaptive drive (electronics dampers, active arb, plus don't know what marketing terms), active steering (like 4 wheel steering on the gs)...etc, but these are all options on the f10, which probably makes the 350 f-sport a good value as these come standard on the f-sport, or so I was told.

 

More importantly, you need to consider how each of them will actually feel when driven on your favourite expressway that you take every evening after work. Then after you exit the expressway, what happens on the smaller roads. Unless you work a salom pad or car testing facility, then maybe the numbers will mean something to you.

 

Add in the ovetrade and their resale value 3 years down, then you will know why beemers and merc sell like hotcakes, while gs is seldom seen on the road.

 

To lexus's credit, their new gs is actually much better choice than any UDM if you are always stuck in peak hour jam on PIE, but once the traffic lightens up, there is just something misssing.

 

 

This comparison test was comparing Like or Like. Both cars had their respective sports suspension : F-Sport for the Lexus, M-Sport for the BMW. Furthermore, pay attention to the video : The BMW M-Sport also had the rear steering option added. Both cars have exactly equivalent options added So the 5 series lost due to its poorer chassis tuning plain and simple not because Lexus resorted to some trick.

 

You mustn't have driven BMWs much. I drove the E39 and E60 5 series ( 2 and 1 generation respectively before the current F10 5 series) and BMW has lost its legendary "feel". Not surprising considering that the current generation 5 series adopted the 7 series chassis and consequently has gained 400 pounds over the previous generation.

 

Talking about feel, many car magazines have noted that ironically, the new GS feels more like old BMWs of the past than the current 5 series.

 

Digest this fact slowly : Lexus built a GS that is more BMW than BMW.

 

I have driven both GS and 5 series and I disagree with you. In my opinion, the new GS drives much like the old legendary E39 5 series and the current 5 series feels numb, overweight and feels really heavy and ponderous when turning a corner.

 

BMW has really lost sight of what made BMWs great. As BMW fans you should be holding the company to account, not hiding your head in the sand and blindly defending the poor decisions that BMW has made, decisions that have made BMWs a much lesser driver's car.

Edited March 24, 2013 by Natnut

[Kiadaw]

I watch the comparison videos to see whats the fuss all about, & the Lexus logo show up in the end...talk about credibility.

 

Anyway, Natnut, which magazines do you refer? Just a question.

[Zyklon]

This comparison test was comparing Like or Like. Both cars had their respective sports suspension : F-Sport for the Lexus, M-Sport for the BMW. Furthermore, pay attention to the video : The BMW M-Sport also had the rear steering option added. Both cars have exactly equivalent options added So the 5 series lost due to its poorer chassis tuning plain and simple not because Lexus resorted to some trick.

 

You mustn't have driven BMWs much. I drove the E39 and E60 5 series ( 2 and 1 generation respectively before the current F10 5 series) and BMW has lost its legendary "feel". Not surprising considering that the current generation 5 series adopted the 7 series chassis and consequently has gained 400 pounds over the previous generation.

 

Talking about feel, many car magazines have noted that ironically, the new GS feels more like old BMWs of the past than the current 5 series.

 

Digest this fact slowly : Lexus built a GS that is more BMW than BMW.

 

I have driven both GS and 5 series and I disagree with you. In my opinion, the new GS drives much like the old legendary E39 5 series and the current 5 series feels numb, overweight and feels really heavy and ponderous when turning a corner.

 

BMW has really lost sight of what made BMWs great. As BMW fans you should be holding the company to account, not hiding your head in the sand and blindly defending the poor decisions that BMW has made, decisions that have made BMWs a much lesser driver's car.

 

I didn't watch the video, but M-sport suspension=no electronic damper and active arb. Believe that is a 10+k option locally called dynamic drive.

 

I have driven both of them too. Actually was really interested in trading the f10 for the gs as a daily driver, which is why I went to test the gs.

 

Have also driven beemers with the ///M badge, so I think I can form my own opinion of what is and what is not.

 

All I can say is that despite the "numb and poor feedback" electronic steering of the f10, it still felt more like the steering of a beemer than the gs. The lexus steering felt closer to a toyota than a bmw. In fact, it felt exactly like my 03 camry, just heavier and more numb. BUT I am not saying one is better than the other, just different. In lexus's fairness, I test drove the non f-sport version, which I assume did not have 4 wheel steering.

 

I am not a bmw fan. Just speaking my own opinion. In fact, if you are after a sporty ride and not a refined corseting ride which this gs doesn't have anyway, I will suggest getting neither of these. Just get a m135i with a lot of spare change.

[Kiadaw]

Or wait for the new S3, 300hp & come standard with AWD. But handling does not interest me as much as traction. But then again, my prespective come from having to drive through white roads often. But I agree that M135i is a nice car, perfect for Singapore road condition & purpose.

Edited March 24, 2013 by Kiadaw

[Porker]

Can you arrange a test drive of the new GS for me?

[RadX]

I like how the moderator diverted the topic to the Japanese brand sub-forum when the objective facts don't favor BMW. Who's the BMWnazi now?

 

 

It is called putting topics where they should be. I dun see BMW topics in jap section. If you continue your nonsense and baseless allegations, you will have a very short stay here, and all evidence of yoru existence will also go faster than your GS does 0-100.

 

Forummers have eyes. We dun see other marques posting their figures. We know where to find them and read them. Do yourself a favor and post less, as your credibility might go up a notch. As of now, your agenda is pretty clear

[Tayspiderx]

BMW knows you cannot afford lah

They will think siao at this fella always come in molest our 528

[Sg571958]

Why are all the argument base on figures you guys can't prove?

 

I own BMW and Lexus, my Dad is all time BMW fan till today. But it's ths very fact the Bavarian Brand commands much better Brand recognition in Asia. But I would not agree that BMW is trouble free!!! 14. BMW cars till date for my family, there is not one without issue within the 1st year. Don't tell me this is luck.....same with my relatives and subordinates who owns one.

 

So far The 2 Lexus I own have prove to be totally problem free and way cheaper to maintain than any of they bimmers of lower mileage. My issue is not the cost!!! Why buy a 535 or GS350 and worry about cost!!!

 

The only issue I've with bimmers is the number of time I need to send my car to workshop! I do love. The design of bimmers much more than Lexus.

 

Bimmers are like mistress and Lexus is your wife. You don't have to expect that your mistress is reliable!!!

 

Btw can I ask all that posted a question? Have anyone of you floor your car accelerator Every month to redline up NS or "total" a car? Some serious driving to tested the car? If not, I suggest lets just focus on the car in discussion to Make it a better discussion. I burnt VW VR4 engine and have overheating with a bimmer, nothing happens to my GS. We talking about 150k mileage for a 4 year old Lexus and less than 15k for both bimmers and VW. Lets not argue Conti are more reliable, even when I wrk in Munich back in early 2000. My Mercedes was full of issues...so don't blame the weather. Well....I kept coming back to Conti cars....why? They are all design to take the autobahn!!!!!! That's is what a aggressive driver look for.....but argument on cost of maintenance and reliability is not a relevant discussion here nor to prove unless someone is a "car salesman"!!!

[Shadow6447]

Depends on how you define an "Ultimate Driving Machine" eh? Often it's not the car that pulls the best numbers on the skidpad, through the slalom or on the speed tests.

 

I'm not a bmw fanboy, just sayin'.

 

ps. I wonder if they used the same tires for both cars...

 

The "Ultimate Driving Machine" is as ultimate as the car you are willing to pay .. and it's very subjective since the "wants" differ from people to people : )

 

I have owned the 523i F10 for slightly more than a year and currently with the GS350 F-sport for 9 mths. Both are great cars with different strengths .. and weaknesses. I must qualify that the following is not an apple to apple comparison, but just some of the cars' characteristics to share. The BMW has a more "solid" feel and the power delivery is more predictable with the downshift. The Lexus feels "small" (and a little "light") especially in the sport + mode and having a larger engine, it still has a good balance of power and control in this mode .. and it's more ready to blip. I do red line both cars in safe environment .. and I find the Lexus has very very nice engine/exhaust note after 4500 rpm . Unfortunately, in S'pore you hit speed limit by 2nd gear : (

 

For me, I also find the Lexus more comfortable with the fun, especially going over speed hump and uneven road, and the 6-speed transmission is smooth and sufficient .. the 8-speed BMW was a little jerky at low speed. Anyway, I do agree that BMW has more prestige. My would like my next car to be the CLA45 AMG .. but think it's going to be pricy .. IS350 F-sport or BMW 435 coupe would also be good .. : )

Edited March 25, 2013 by Shadow6447

[Zyklon]

Why are all the argument base on figures you guys can't prove?

 

I own BMW and Lexus, my Dad is all time BMW fan till today. But it's ths very fact the Bavarian Brand commands much better Brand recognition in Asia. But I would not agree that BMW is trouble free!!! 14. BMW cars till date for my family, there is not one without issue within the 1st year. Don't tell me this is luck.....same with my relatives and subordinates who owns one.

 

So far The 2 Lexus I own have prove to be totally problem free and way cheaper to maintain than any of they bimmers of lower mileage. My issue is not the cost!!! Why buy a 535 or GS350 and worry about cost!!!

 

The only issue I've with bimmers is the number of time I need to send my car to workshop! I do love. The design of bimmers much more than Lexus.

 

Bimmers are like mistress and Lexus is your wife. You don't have to expect that your mistress is reliable!!!

 

Btw can I ask all that posted a question? Have anyone of you floor your car accelerator Every month to redline up NS or "total" a car? Some serious driving to tested the car? If not, I suggest lets just focus on the car in discussion to Make it a better discussion. I burnt VW VR4 engine and have overheating with a bimmer, nothing happens to my GS. We talking about 150k mileage for a 4 year old Lexus and less than 15k for both bimmers and VW. Lets not argue Conti are more reliable, even when I wrk in Munich back in early 2000. My Mercedes was full of issues...so don't blame the weather. Well....I kept coming back to Conti cars....why? They are all design to take the autobahn!!!!!! That's is what a aggressive driver look for.....but argument on cost of maintenance and reliability is not a relevant discussion here nor to prove unless someone is a "car salesman"!!!

 

It is really heng suay.

 

My current bmw has been trouble free, but I will expect it to need some work in a few years time. Probably the usual stuff, like here leak there leak, air con coil, radiator...just praying that gearbox don't fail.

 

I won't say lexus and toyota are trouble free either, at least not when the mileage goes up. I know coz mine has not been trouble free. My worst case was a leaking window seal from new that borneo managed to fix on first attempt. By 65k km, that car already had, jammed windows, cracked side mirror plastic, bad tranny, leaking engine head gasket, bad suspension bushing, dead oxygen sensor, and a bad idle that required some adaptation reset that borneo actually charged $300 for!!! In all fairness though, I was never left stranded on the road.

 

Of course, the most reliable car my family ever had was also a toyota. A 96 corona. Only replaced 1 pair of front cv rubber cover in the 7 years of ownership at 45k km mileage.

 

My point? Conti are unreliable. New jap sedans are not any more reliable. Cars are getting to clever.

[Imaginary]

It is really heng suay.

 

My current bmw has been trouble free, but I will expect it to need some work in a few years time. Probably the usual stuff, like here leak there leak, air con coil, radiator...just praying that gearbox don't fail.

 

I won't say lexus and toyota are trouble free either, at least not when the mileage goes up. I know coz mine has not been trouble free. My worst case was a leaking window seal from new that borneo managed to fix on first attempt. By 65k km, that car already had, jammed windows, cracked side mirror plastic, bad tranny, leaking engine head gasket, bad suspension bushing, dead oxygen sensor, and a bad idle that required some adaptation reset that borneo actually charged $300 for!!! In all fairness though, I was never left stranded on the road.

 

Of course, the most reliable car my family ever had was also a toyota. A 96 corona. Only replaced 1 pair of front cv rubber cover in the 7 years of ownership at 45k km mileage.

 

My point? Conti are unreliable. New jap sedans are not any more reliable. Cars are getting to clever.

 

The (recent) numbers don't quite agree with your point though, which is more believable than anecdotal evidence.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/9...ity-survey.html

[RadX]

Good to see more objective views and increases my want to know abt the 350

 

nazis like the lexusnazi just put me off to the core and i believe will others too.....

[Sugar]

i just saw the price of the gs350, its around 330k !!!

 

Thats damm expensive.