The Secret To Germany's Low Youth Unemployment

[Alpha78]

I keep hearing this professional Engineer thingy. What actually are these?

 

Engineers who have gone through the mentorship with a professional engineer, and who have satisfied the requirements to the Institute of Engineers or Professional Engineers Board (forgot which is the one). These people will then be allowed to use the title Engineer (Er) in front of their names, just like doctors use Dr.

 

Most graduates that I know from engineering faculties do not go through that route. Quite a lot of them went on to become property agents or insurance agents.

[KARTer]

Our environment different. The hard truth: Government officers only keen on academic scholars. Skilled carftmen are neglected/thump-down. Now we even have foreigners as Resident Engineers who practice close-one-eye when they can not managed the job. The priority is academic qualifications, not value-for-money work delivery. Some call it work smart, not work hard. Example: Ever told 20 years service only ASP. 2 years experience can be Asst. Director. Construction industry: Foreigners who do not know the job can be Resident Engineer. Locals can only be Resident Technical Officers.

Last GE: new candidate can defeat new candidate from PAP. New GRC can defeat existing PAP GRC. Time has changed.

Time has indeed changed. Will 12 dec 2012 be a special day?

[KARTer]

The main reason was because last time....we got cheap mechanics labour from Malaysia. They undercut the salary.

 

Now we got Chinese cheap mechanics from china. They undercut the salary.

 

In Germany, there are few overseas workers to come and undercut the mechanics salary.

 

Singapore has all along being undercut here and there....how to have appreciation for these foreigner mechanics that come and goes very frequent.

 

And the poor perceptions for these skilled workers has thus being unfavorably formed in many mind sets.

In a way, the employments of cheap engineers etc "cheapened" the image of the profession?

[Mecontle]

how much is good pay?

<2k is sustainable , 6k is decent , 10k is professional , none of these can afford a posh life in sg

[Kb27]

Companies here will rather hire cheapie FTs than locals.

[Good-Carbuyer]

The main reason was because last time....we got cheap mechanics labour from Malaysia. They undercut the salary.

 

Now we got Chinese cheap mechanics from china. They undercut the salary.

 

In Germany, there are few overseas workers to come and undercut the mechanics salary.

 

Singapore has all along being undercut here and there....how to have appreciation for these foreigner mechanics that come and goes very frequent.

 

And the poor perceptions for these skilled workers has thus being unfavorably formed in many mind sets.

I was told among Western countries, their Trade Unions dictate prestige for their trades/members. Hence foreigners can not compete with lower salary basis. They also do not protect professionals like we do over here.

[Good-Carbuyer]

Germany is a manufacturing powerhouse where engineers, technicians and other technical craftsman are respected for their know-how.

 

Engineers in Singapore used to be respected a long time back, when engineering is still a fashionable choice of study.

Our engineers are protected by statutory requirements. Foreigners always sneer at ou engineers for engineering incompetency. Example: I ever encounter Professional Electrical Engineer who did not even understand basic electricity. It sounds like a cruel joke. However, every now and then one of them get killed in a substation due to their incompetency (more often then electrical workers).

[Good-Carbuyer]

Nyp just started a new program consist of working adult for some kind of master craftmanship course...

Lip service course? The trainers master craftmen or some redundant U-graduates?

[Good-Carbuyer]

In Spore, Professional engineers also got Er in front of name.

But most of the Er i've encountered so far are for the 'chop' only. They are not very good.

When I was working with Germans, they laughed at our Professional Engineers' engineering knowledge. The Germans commented: need to go back to school. Our assumption/imagination that anyone holding a U-degree to be knows all about engineering is flawed. Most of them knows little about the subject. Hence the inflated prices we pay for housing here. Example: one former minister mentioned: material and labour costs in Japan US, about 3 to 5 times ours. Yet our completed buildings 3 to 5 times theirs. We pay for compensating the incompetency of our professionals.

[Good-Carbuyer]

I keep hearing this professional Engineer thingy. What actually are these?

These are U-degree holders assumed/imagined to be knowledegeable in engineering. The local Authorities only entertain them as Elites. All development to be endorsed by them regardless. These people can simply endorsed for payment regardless of delivery(a few got struck off once in a while).

[Good-Carbuyer]

to chop and sign drawings, electrical mechanical or civil. other discipline never see PE chop before

Used to be good $$$.

The hard truth: Most of them can not read drawings that they endorsed. Example: Civil Professional Engineer can endorsed for Mechanical Engineering design because he gets paid...

[Good-Carbuyer]

Engineers who have gone through the mentorship with a professional engineer, and who have satisfied the requirements to the Institute of Engineers or Professional Engineers Board (forgot which is the one). These people will then be allowed to use the title Engineer (Er) in front of their names, just like doctors use Dr.

 

Most graduates that I know from engineering faculties do not go through that route. Quite a lot of them went on to become property agents or insurance agents.

Almost like the blind leads the blind. One day I was making enquiry on behalf of a contractor, to one of them. The following year he had left that consultancy firm for his negligence/incompetency.

[Good-Carbuyer]

In a way, the employments of cheap engineers etc "cheapened" the image of the profession?

I like to believe its their actual market worth/competency that is being realized now that there is competition among themselves. The arrival of foreigners to expose their competency also makes it challenging.

[Good-Carbuyer]

Companies here will rather hire cheapie FTs than locals.

The lack of competition in the market (simply go MOM declared labour shortage, and be allowed to bring in more unskilled foreign workers)

Unable to appreciate differences between skilled and unskilled (observed at site: a skilled workers can be cheaper than 12 unskilled workers)

Lack of skilled people available (most/all contractors peg wages based on unskilled foreign workers only)

Many contractors going bust if not for the recent surge in construction industry. When the surge is oever, the government needs to stimulate another one to sustain. Hence the inflation. Otherwise the buddle can burst

[Kiadaw]

When I was working with Germans, they laughed at our Professional Engineers' engineering knowledge. The Germans commented: need to go back to school. Our assumption/imagination that anyone holding a U-degree to be knows all about engineering is flawed. Most of them knows little about the subject. Hence the inflated prices we pay for housing here. Example: one former minister mentioned: material and labour costs in Japan US, about 3 to 5 times ours. Yet our completed buildings 3 to 5 times theirs. We pay for compensating the incompetency of our professionals.

I think, to be fair, the high cost of our construction is due to land price.

 

But engineering, like art, or sports are skills that need to be develop, from young. Of course, I am not talking about specialise skills, but skills in creativity, innovations, how different object interact, & the physics must be form from young. There need to be alot of hands on, interest, as well as environments to allow expression & creativity.

 

You cannot just take a 3- 4 years degree course & think you can be a good engineer, just like your cannot become an artist just by joining an art class. You also need to continuously improve over the years.

 

Our education emphasis too much on memories, doing 10 years series, practice on standand questions. When we are presented with something not in the book, or hands on, or have to give a presentation, or interact, which incidentally happens alot in the real work, we found ourselves wanting.

 

In my early days of work, as well as internship, I always have difficulties in presentation, or even convey my ideas, or message & drag if I have to interact with a stranger to get some things done. The only saving grace is I am always interested in how things work as a kid, & play a little more as a child & pretty good at art & craft. But I have to put a lot of effort to improve my presentation, speaking with confidence etc. Only then, I wonder why these ain't focus at all in school.

 

 

[Good-Carbuyer]

I think, to be fair, the high cost of our construction is due to land price.

 

But engineering, like art, or sports are skills that need to be develop, from young. Of course, I am not talking about specialise skills, but skills in creativity, innovations, how different object interact, & the physics must be form from young. There need to be alot of hands on, interest, as well as environments to allow expression & creativity.

 

You cannot just take a 3- 4 years degree course & think you can be a good engineer, just like your cannot become an artist just by joining an art class. You also need to continuously improve over the years.

 

Our education emphasis too much on memories, doing 10 years series, practice on standand questions. When we are presented with something not in the book, or hands on, or have to give a presentation, or interact, which incidentally happens alot in the real work, we found ourselves wanting.

 

In my early days of work, as well as internship, I always have difficulties in presentation, or even convey my ideas, or message & drag if I have to interact with a stranger to get some things done. The only saving grace is I am always interested in how things work as a kid, & play a little more as a child & pretty good at art & craft. But I have to put a lot of effort to improve my presentation, speaking with confidence etc. Only then, I wonder why these ain't focus at all in school.

Agree land is costly, but not that significant ratio to the completed project cost.

I believe many professions/vocations are subject to individual's suitablility. 3-years degree course should not be assumed to produce supermen/superwomen out of anyone, who in another 3 years becomes professionals (but can not read engineering drawings). So they just stamped and endorsed onto drawings for a fee, even though drawings incomplete/errors allover. No way to promote the profession in such manner. If you recall the plan shown by the media of the Marina Barrage (design flaws), causing the repeated Orchard Road floodings. The then Minister himself a Professional Engineer, too.

Edited April 15, 2012 by Good-Carbuyer

[David]

First you gotta know how to write - I mean as in technical handwriting. Next you got to know what is a b------d File. After that, know how to file to get a flat and squared surface. You also got to rock a flat surface into a round surface. That's german workmanship I know.

[KARTer]

I like to believe its their actual market worth/competency that is being realized now that there is competition among themselves. The arrival of foreigners to expose their competency also makes it challenging.

Correction:- the arrival of outsiders to expose their incompetency....