Knee arthroscopy - ACL & meniscus & microfracture

[Matoonia]

Just had my MRI - ACL 75% damaged (moderate to high grade partial tear) and vertical tear of medial meniscus. I sustained the injury in my Sunday Futsal. For now I can straighten fully and bend almost 90% so ROM is still good.

 

Any bros here gone under the knife can share your experience?

 

 

[Chipsahoy8919]

Just had my MRI - ACL 75% damaged (moderate to high grade partial tear) and vertical tear of medial meniscus. I sustained the injury in my Sunday Futsal. For now I can straighten fully and bend almost 90% so ROM is still good.

 

Any bros here gone under the knife can share your experience?

 

 

Hi Matoonia,

 

Sorry to hear that. You can read my earlier post with regards to my personal experience of the much dreaded ACL injury, and yes I got that from a football match as well.

 

To be honest, I have seen ppl that goes about their normal lives without much interference from a torn ACL, but I am no doctor, thus I am not sure how the 75% will affect ur daily life in the time to come. For me, it was 100% torn thus the decision was more straightforward.

 

To share more about 'going under the knife', it is actually a minor one or what they call a keyhole surgery (I had 3 minor incisions on my knee). You will report in on the day of surgery, go under GA, the next thing you know when you awaken, is the feeling of drowsiness but the surgery is over, you are lying on the bed in the ward and the brace is already set on your knee. My operation was done in 2008 thus if my memory still serves me right, I was pretty much bed ridden on the first night (yes, you got to be warded for one night) and you will have to relieve yourself into a bottle. Thereafter, you can checkout the next day but that is really where the challenge starts.

 

You will pretty much be grounded at home (for the first few weeks) as your mobility is severely impeded due to the brace (that locks your knee in position) and you have to go about in crutches, thus its very difficult to even get a shower done much less strolling about Orchard Road. The only other place you will visit during this time frame will be to the hospital for the physio sessions which will be crucial to the recovery process ( I urged you not to miss any and to give your best during the sessions). The first few visits will be toughest and most painful as you will have to push through the pain barrier to regain your knee's range of motion. Thereafter, it will get better and better though if I recall correctly, I was only off the crutches after 2 months and in fact I started driving at about the same time (and I drive a manual by the way) thus you will have an indication of the recovery duration.

 

All in all, you will take about 3 months Hospitalisation Leave away from work thus it will have some impact to your work performance as well. You can see at this point that the surgery is pretty straightforward but it is the recovery process that will be the deal breaker. Hope the above 'knowledge sharing' will give you some basic insight of what to expect and aid you in your decision making.

 

All the best then!

[Matoonia]

Hi Matoonia,

 

Sorry to hear that. You can read my earlier post with regards to my personal experience of the much dreaded ACL injury, and yes I got that from a football match as well.

 

To be honest, I have seen ppl that goes about their normal lives without much interference from a torn ACL, but I am no doctor, thus I am not sure how the 75% will affect ur daily life in the time to come. For me, it was 100% torn thus the decision was more straightforward.

 

To share more about 'going under the knife', it is actually a minor one or what they call a keyhole surgery (I had 3 minor incisions on my knee). You will report in on the day of surgery, go under GA, the next thing you know when you awaken, is the feeling of drowsiness but the surgery is over, you are lying on the bed in the ward and the brace is already set on your knee. My operation was done in 2008 thus if my memory still serves me right, I was pretty much bed ridden on the first night (yes, you got to be warded for one night) and you will have to relieve yourself into a bottle. Thereafter, you can checkout the next day but that is really where the challenge starts.

 

You will pretty much be grounded at home (for the first few week( I urged you not to miss any and to give your best during the sessions). The first few visits will be toughest and most painful as you will have to push through the pain barrier to regain your knee's range of motion. Thereafter, it will get better and better though if I recall correctly, I was only off the crutches after 2 months and in fact I started driving at about the sams) as your mobility is severely impeded due to the brace (that locks your knee in position) and you have to go about in crutches, thus its very difficult to even get a shower done much less strolling about Orchard Road. The only other place you will visit during this time frame will be to the hospital for the physio sessions which will be crucial to the recovery process e time (and I drive a manual by the way) thus you will have an indication of the recovery duration.

 

All in all, you will take about 3 months Hospitalisation Leave away from work thus it will have some impact to your work performance as well. You can see at this point that the surgery is pretty straightforward but it is the recovery process that will be the deal breaker. Hope the above 'knowledge sharing' will give you some basic insight of what to expect and aid you in your decision making.

 

All the best then!

 

Thks bro for sharing. I've read that the post-op is the worst part of the process. I've done anthroscopy on my shoulder years back, so I know all about op. But I could still drive my car a few days after the op, doing physio and quite mobile, so it was not too bad. Back to work after 2 weeks.

 

This time is meniscus tear + ACL, so doc initial advise is need to go for op. If I don't go for op, can rehab but definitely no more soccer, as ACL will not heal by itself. Still feeling devasated about this injury, as it did not seem that serious during the soccer session. It still does not hurt now, but feels like the knee is very wobbly and I get about with a knee brace now

 

 

[Getzsfv]

on the same note regarding the knee, would eating deer placenta helps in repairing our knee?

[Chipsahoy8919]

 

Thks bro for sharing. I've read that the post-op is the worst part of the process. I've done anthroscopy on my shoulder years back, so I know all about op. But I could still drive my car a few days after the op, doing physio and quite mobile, so it was not too bad. Back to work after 2 weeks.

 

This time is meniscus tear + ACL, so doc initial advise is need to go for op. If I don't go for op, can rehab but definitely no more soccer, as ACL will not heal by itself. Still feeling devasated about this injury, as it did not seem that serious during the soccer session. It still does not hurt now, but feels like the knee is very wobbly and I get about with a knee brace now

 

 

 

Hi Matoonia,

 

If you are keen to return to soccer, then its definitely worthwhile doing the surgery, especially when yours is a 2-in-1 injury. When I had my ACL injury, I tried to go back to play but there was just no way of sustaining that kind of movements as the knee will just buckle under the pressure. I 'degraded' from playing forward to goalie and it still buckled even though I was just a goalie. Thus, I made up my mind that I will take the hit (3 months downtime) to get it resolved completely for a peace of mind and to play out whatever remaining years I have.

 

Right now, I participate in the odd futsal sessions and my knee is still holding up. When I first returned, I wore those knee support, but as time goes by, I have weaned off those supports. Nowadays, after a 2 hr session, the knee will still be slightly sore for a day or two but it will return back to normal subsequently.

 

If it's any comfort for you, at least you can kill 2 birds with one stone (in a single surgery) rather than mine when I tore my ACL, went for surgery, played then tore my meniscus and went for surgery again!

 

I will say, go for the surgery!

Edited July 23, 2015 by Chipsahoy8919

[Lala81]

on the same note regarding the knee, would eating deer placenta helps in repairing our knee?

 

no evidence.

[Chipsahoy8919]

on the same note regarding the knee, would eating deer placenta helps in repairing our knee?

 

Hi Getzfv,

 

I threw the same question (just that in my case I asked about glucosamine) at my surgeon, and off the record he told me that it's more psychological than anything.

 

Thus, I have not consumed any supplements till date but my knee is well still working well!

 

So from my own limited experience, I will say regular (low impact) exercises will strengthen the knee well enough on it's own!

[Getzsfv]

 

Hi Getzfv,

 

I threw the same question (just that in my case I asked about glucosamine) at my surgeon, and off the record he told me that it's more psychological than anything.

 

Thus, I have not consumed any supplements till date but my knee is well still working well!

 

So from my own limited experience, I will say regular (low impact) exercises will strengthen the knee well enough on it's own!

I am on the heavy side (95kg 1.78), and have sharp pain even when going down the stairs, seen specialist and told me to do an op to put some artificial cartilage, but have frens telling to eat deer placenta..lol. So just asking around..

 

no evidence.

Dats the problem, I did googled but no medical evidence to support this, other than those from the company that sell them

[Matoonia]

 

Hi Matoonia,

 

If you are keen to return to soccer, then its definitely worthwhile doing the surgery, especially when yours is a 2-in-1 injury. When I had my ACL injury, I tried to go back to play but there was just no way of sustaining that kind of movements as the knee will just buckle under the pressure. I 'degraded' from playing forward to goalie and it still buckled even though I was just a goalie. Thus, I made up my mind that I will take the hit (3 months downtime) to get it resolved completely for a peace of mind and to play out whatever remaining years I have.

 

Right now, I participate in the odd futsal sessions and my knee is still holding up. When I first returned, I wore those knee support, but as time goes by, I have weaned off those supports. Nowadays, after a 2 hr session, the knee will still be slightly sore for a day or two but it will return back to normal subsequently.

 

If it's any comfort for you, at least you can kill 2 birds with one stone (in a single surgery) rather than mine when I tore my ACL, went for surgery, played then tore my meniscus and went for surgery again!

 

I will say, go for the surgery!

 

Yes I am inclined to do surgery, just that the rehab is cumbersome. Guess I have to be diligent in the rehab for a full recovery.

 

[KR81]

Tore my meniscus playing footy in 2001 and went for surgery. Returned to jogging after 3-4 months and then footy another 2 months after.

Physiotherapy is very important if planning on going back to any physical activities/sports. Have had no further problems with my knees since then (touch wood) but started to notice some stiffness in the knees during/after prolonged jogging/footy sessions at the start of the year.

 

Chanced upon this product, recommended by the pharmacist at Guardian. Have used it for a few months and the stiffness sensation is almost immediately lost. The product leaflet recommends to apply the gel twice a day. I did that for a week and then reduced the application to 3 times a week (nightly). This could help those with knee stiffness when exercising.

 

http://sports.flexiseq.com/uk/

 

[Ronkovic]

Just had my MRI - ACL 75% damaged (moderate to high grade partial tear) and vertical tear of medial meniscus. I sustained the injury in my Sunday Futsal. For now I can straighten fully and bend almost 90% so ROM is still good.

 

Any bros here gone under the knife can share your experience?

 

 

 

Sorry to hear about your case. I can certainly emphatise because I am similarly afflicted with almost the same injury as you on my right master leg for football. For me, I got the injury also during football when I was making a turn and there was collision with another player, felt the snap and I knew that was it because I had previously already torn my left ACL some years before. Hope you don't mind and bear with me as I share my experience.

 

On the positive side, if you can straighten fully and bend up to 90%, you're still in relatively "good shape". If you do daily stretching and light strengthening exercises, you will slowly regain full flexion and movement. From my experience, after I sustained the injury, it took a couple of months off football for it to heal and regain flexion. During that time, the knees were quite weak and it would sometimes just suddenly buckle while I was in the midst of walking. In the meantime, I visited a Chinese physio to help with rectifying the swelling and circulation with some massage and medication and it was a big help.

 

The Chinese physio did share that it was highly possible that it was a meniscus injury so I went to see an Orthopaedic surgeon. As my regular surgeon was away, I saw another one that was recommended and after MRI, it was pretty much clear it was a high-grade ACL tear coupled with a torn meniscus. He suggested to immediately have surgery, where a 2 separate surgeries would be done one after the other - as apparently the recovery is different for both (one needs to have some movement, the other requires knee to be fixed). I was a little taken aback by this and so I took a breather and waited for my regular surgeon to seek a second opinion when he returned.

 

During consultation, my regular surgeon took a look at the scans and confirmed the injury. He then asked me if my knee was affecting me badly to the extent that I can't walk properly felt a lot of pain, and I told him frankly not really as it seemed to be better aside from the odd buckle. Being a very passionate football person, I next asked if I could go back and play again or if I needed immediate surgery; to which he replied that the knee was already quite badly injured, but since my movement was not hampered and pain was minimal, he told me that I could just essentially carry on playing but to note that the snap could happen any time. He advised that the leg be strapped very firmly for games and to also do stretching and strengthening exercises as much as I could. In the event that a full tear occurs or if my movement becomes limited or pain is too great do I come to him for surgery. I was a bit surprised but I always trust his advice as he is a veteran in this field and his patients include alot of current and former national and regional footballers.

 

Since then, I've gone back to playing football on and off - perhaps 2 matches a month plus the odd kick-about/training sessions with my 2 sons. Every time I play I make sure I strap my affected knee very tightly. If you wish to continue playing you may want to invest in a good, supporting knee brace for sports. Sometimes, if the game was more intense, I do get that 'weak' feeling in the knees once I take off the brace and the rare buckling occasionally, but after some ice and rest, it gets better and back to 'normal'. For now I guess, my fun from football is living on borrowed time until the knee really goes.

 

ACL surgery and recuperation is really not fun - As what some forumers have shared and from what I've experienced from my previous , the recovery period takes awhile and it will affect your daily life quite a fair bit. Previously with my left leg, it wasn't so bad as I drive an auto car so the only struggle was getting in and out of the car and aligning your straightened leg properly. If the affected leg is the right leg, its not possible to drive as you won't be able to bend your knee and also exert pressure on the pedals properly. Mobility will also be hampered as you will be moving on crutches (outside home) and/or hopping/hobbling at home for at least 6 weeks. Exercise and physiotherapy will also be quite intense as your leg would have lost all its muscle strength and flexibility but you will be working on a lot of weights and strengthening exercises to get it back. These sessions are usually about twice to thrice a week plus you have to be disciplined and do some easier strengthening and stretching exercises at home every day. I don't believe in taking painkillers so if you don't there will be times where you have to grit your teeth and bear with the pain until it subsides.

 

Hope this provides another useful perspective for you.

Edited July 23, 2015 by Ronkovic

[Matoonia]

 

Sorry to hear about your case. I can certainly emphatise because I am similarly afflicted with almost the same injury as you on my right master leg for football. For me, I got the injury also during football when I was making a turn and there was collision with another player, felt the snap and I knew that was it because I had previously already torn my left ACL some years before. Hope you don't mind and bear with me as I share my experience.

 

On the positive side, if you can straighten fully and bend up to 90%, you're still in relatively "good shape". If you do daily stretching and light strengthening exercises, you will slowly regain full flexion and movement. From my experience, after I sustained the injury, it took a couple of months off football for it to heal and regain flexion. During that time, the knees were quite weak and it would sometimes just suddenly buckle while I was in the midst of walking. In the meantime, I visited a Chinese physio to help with rectifying the swelling and circulation with some massage and medication and it was a big help.

 

The Chinese physio did share that it was highly possible that it was a meniscus injury so I went to see an Orthopaedic surgeon. As my regular surgeon was away, I saw another one that was recommended and after MRI, it was pretty much clear it was a high-grade ACL tear coupled with a torn meniscus. He suggested to immediately have surgery, where a 2 separate surgeries would be done one after the other - as apparently the recovery is different for both (one needs to have some movement, the other requires knee to be fixed). I was a little taken aback by this and so I took a breather and waited for my regular surgeon to seek a second opinion when he returned.

 

During consultation, my regular surgeon took a look at the scans and confirmed the injury. He then asked me if my knee was affecting me badly to the extent that I can't walk properly felt a lot of pain, and I told him frankly not really as it seemed to be better aside from the odd buckle. Being a very passionate football person, I next asked if I could go back and play again or if I needed immediate surgery; to which he replied that the knee was already quite badly injured, but since my movement was not hampered and pain was minimal, he told me that I could just essentially carry on playing but to note that the snap could happen any time. He advised that the leg be strapped very firmly for games and to also do stretching and strengthening exercises as much as I could. In the event that a full tear occurs or if my movement becomes limited or pain is too great do I come to him for surgery. I was a bit surprised but I always trust his advice as he is a veteran in this field and his patients include alot of current and former national and regional footballers.

 

Since then, I've gone back to playing football on and off - perhaps 2 matches a month plus the odd kick-about/training sessions with my 2 sons. Every time I play I make sure I strap my affected knee very tightly. If you wish to continue playing you may want to invest in a good, supporting knee brace for sports. Sometimes, if the game was more intense, I do get that 'weak' feeling in the knees once I take off the brace and the rare buckling occasionally, but after some ice and rest, it gets better and back to 'normal'. For now I guess, my fun from football is living on borrowed time until the knee really goes.

 

ACL surgery and recuperation is really not fun - As what some forumers have shared and from what I've experienced from my previous , the recovery period takes awhile and it will affect your daily life quite a fair bit. Previously with my left leg, it wasn't so bad as I drive an auto car so the only struggle was getting in and out of the car and aligning your straightened leg properly. If the affected leg is the right leg, its not possible to drive as you won't be able to bend your knee and also exert pressure on the pedals properly. Mobility will also be hampered as you will be moving on crutches (outside home) and/or hopping/hobbling at home for at least 6 weeks. Exercise and physiotherapy will also be quite intense as your leg would have lost all its muscle strength and flexibility but you will be working on a lot of weights and strengthening exercises to get it back. These sessions are usually about twice to thrice a week plus you have to be disciplined and do some easier strengthening and stretching exercises at home every day. I don't believe in taking painkillers so if you don't there will be times where you have to grit your teeth and bear with the pain until it subsides.

 

Hope this provides another useful perspective for you.

 

Thks bro for sharing. Just to check, how long ago was this and if you continued with the TCM therapy? I've read that ACL do not heal by itself though the meniscus might. Since I have both, it results in the knee being very unstable and feel like bucking. My ACL is partial (75%) so that's why maybe my flexion(ROM) is still ok at 90% and don't really experience pain.

[Ronkovic]

 

Thks bro for sharing. Just to check, how long ago was this and if you continued with the TCM therapy? I've read that ACL do not heal by itself though the meniscus might. Since I have both, it results in the knee being very unstable and feel like bucking. My ACL is partial (75%) so that's why maybe my flexion(ROM) is still ok at 90% and don't really experience pain.

 

Hi Matoonia.

 

You are right - The ACL will not heal on its own. Usually the meniscus won't really heal on its own either, especially if the damage is very bad. Its only a matter of how much the torn meniscus will affect your mobility and ability to play sports. If you continuously feel the buckling, it means that the injury is quite serious and you'd probably need some time ( 2 to 3 months) for it to heal and strengthen before you return to a 'semi-normal' state.

 

The injury hit me about a year ago, and I sought the TCM therapy once a week for about 1 month, and thereafter occasionally as and when required (if there was any swelling). I was advised to lay off football for about 2 months at least; so I stayed away for about 3 and a half. During that time, the affected knee would buckle every now and then even while I was walking, but it stopped after 3 months. I make a point to do stretching at least twice a day (morning and night) and to do some light strengthening exercises, which I learnt from my previous ACL injury.

 

When I got back to playing football some months back, it was still ok at a lower intensity (e.g. light kick-about futsal sessions). However, in higher intensity games, where alot of running/sprinting, jumping, turning or stretching out of knees (e.g. tackling) is done, the affected knee would feel very weak and on some occasions buckle, but there won't be any swelling or pain and it gets better/stronger after about 2 days of rest.

 

I won't deny that the injury does somewhat affect my approach to football psychologically. There is always some apprehension when going in for sliding tackles or 50/50 balls because of that fear that the knee may just snap when you overstretch. I guess I try to get over it and not let it get to me, but that worry is always there. I just love my football too much and I dread the day when the knee decides to snap, but till then will just try to enjoy as much as I can.

[Matoonia]

 

Hi Matoonia.

 

You are right - The ACL will not heal on its own. Usually the meniscus won't really heal on its own either, especially if the damage is very bad. Its only a matter of how much the torn meniscus will affect your mobility and ability to play sports. If you continuously feel the buckling, it means that the injury is quite serious and you'd probably need some time ( 2 to 3 months) for it to heal and strengthen before you return to a 'semi-normal' state.

 

The injury hit me about a year ago, and I sought the TCM therapy once a week for about 1 month, and thereafter occasionally as and when required (if there was any swelling). I was advised to lay off football for about 2 months at least; so I stayed away for about 3 and a half. During that time, the affected knee would buckle every now and then even while I was walking, but it stopped after 3 months. I make a point to do stretching at least twice a day (morning and night) and to do some light strengthening exercises, which I learnt from my previous ACL injury.

 

When I got back to playing football some months back, it was still ok at a lower intensity (e.g. light kick-about futsal sessions). However, in higher intensity games, where alot of running/sprinting, jumping, turning or stretching out of knees (e.g. tackling) is done, the affected knee would feel very weak and on some occasions buckle, but there won't be any swelling or pain and it gets better/stronger after about 2 days of rest.

 

I won't deny that the injury does somewhat affect my approach to football psychologically. There is always some apprehension when going in for sliding tackles or 50/50 balls because of that fear that the knee may just snap when you overstretch. I guess I try to get over it and not let it get to me, but that worry is always there. I just love my football too much and I dread the day when the knee decides to snap, but till then will just try to enjoy as much as I can.

 

Bro what happens when the knee buckle? My knee is quite unstable as I can feel it, but it has not bucked though it feels like.

 

And what straps/knee guard do you use for the knee now?

 

I've visited my PT yesterday and started to do strengthening like squats, stationary bike. so far no problem.

 

[Moniq]

If knee very wobbly you may wear knee braces with metal pivot hinge at side. If just a lil wobbly those knee compression wear will aid in stability.

 

It will take months to make it stronger (more stable) but you are not able to go back to those sports that will stress your knee too much unless you opt for surgery.

 

Take care :)

 

p/s: i have read some claims of hGH to aid recovery, however it does not seem to be legal.

[Ben5266]

 

Bro what happens when the knee buckle? My knee is quite unstable as I can feel it, but it has not bucked though it feels like.

 

And what straps/knee guard do you use for the knee now?

 

I've visited my PT yesterday and started to do strengthening like squats, stationary bike. so far no problem.

 

Your ACL still has 25%. It will heal. Just need some time.

 

If you want to heal faster, can try this machine. Indiba activ.

It is used by FC Barcelona.

 

http://demo.indibaactiv.com/?attachment_id=7190

This machine will speed up the repair of our tissues.

 

I would recommend you this before going under the knife.

Take care.

[Matoonia]

Your ACL still has 25%. It will heal. Just need some time.

 

If you want to heal faster, can try this machine. Indiba activ.

It is used by FC Barcelona.

 

http://demo.indibaactiv.com/?attachment_id=7190

This machine will speed up the repair of our tissues.

 

I would recommend you this before going under the knife.

Take care.

 

Wow sounds expensive. Not sure if Singapore ortho have these machines. Will ask my ortho next time I see him

 

But I've read that ACL in itself will not heal as there is no blood flow there. Meniscus though is possible to self heal. Most injuries are like mine, ACL + Meniscus.

 

My knees are starting to feel better this week, after doing some leg strengthening exercises. Lots of isometric squats and cycling on stationary bike. Even if I decided to go for op, strengthening of the leg will help a lot in the post op rehab.

[Matoonia]

No one mention BMI or being overweight?

 

I'm not fat leh :(