Why does Japanese not to use TC on Family cars?

[Elfenstar]

Additional components which add to the chances of failures, costly repairs, lengthy downtimes, etc in the name of marginally better fuel economy / cleaner air as a marketing tool, imho is not really a good idea for most buyers who appreciate hassle free, reliable A to B transport offering normal power for normal driving needs.

 

 

Actually I think its about an individuals perception of value, and knowing what you're getting yourself into lah. I don't mind getting a peugeot or citroen if the price is right, BUT I would expect no less than to have the car spend a good 40-50% of it's time in the workshop for warranty for the first 2 years Once it's all rectified though it will last.

 

The problem with TC is the heat generated. Its usually the bearings that get fried, especially if low quality mineral oil is used. Synthetic oil is the best for a TC.

 

Rotary engines r the best in terms of simplicity. Fewer moving parts n no inertia to overcome. Only downside is high FC.

 

It's alright for B&B cars. As per any car, the options are to use a good oil and change less often, or an average oil and change more often. On my 180, I used to to 5000kms changes using magnatec, but only coz it was quite modified. For everything else I like Schaefers 9000 and back in melb elf excellium (which is bloody exp here).

[Maseratigood]

 

Actually I think its about an individuals perception of value, and knowing what you're getting yourself into lah. I don't mind getting a peugeot or citroen if the price is right, BUT I would expect no less than to have the car spend a good 40-50% of it's time in the workshop for warranty for the first 2 years Once it's all rectified though it will last.

Cars like Citroen etc have strong points but somehow are not very reliable here. If they dont require me to babysit them I am happy to have one. Using the warranty cover to iron out the problems is a good way to have peace of mind.

 

 

Saab was the first to pioneer turbocharging for cars. The key at the center consol was a novelty but it usually spoil cos it also locked the gear selector n many abused it till the key became loose. Hahaha.

 

The BMW2002tii was not turbo as many tot. It was twin induction....meaning twin carbs.

I thought 2002 turbo is a different model from 2002tii?

[Pisces69]

Cars like Citroen etc have strong points but somehow are not very reliable here. If they dont require me to babysit them I am happy to have one. Using the warranty cover to iron out the problems is a good way to have peace of mind.

 

I thought 2002 turbo is a different model from 2002tii?

 

 

Mine was Tii (twin carbs).

 

I not sure abt the Turbo cos some pple liked to buy word TORBO n stick it on the back of their car.

 

Even the Alfa Ti was twin carbs but fooled many into thinking it was turbo.

 

Those days very few cars had turbo. First mass produced was the Saab 900 Turbo if Im not mistaken.

[Maseratigood]

 

 

Mine was Tii (twin carbs).

 

I not sure abt the Turbo cos some pple liked to buy word TORBO n stick it on the back of their car.

 

Even the Alfa Ti was twin carbs but fooled many into thinking it was turbo.

 

Those days very few cars had turbo. First mass produced was the Saab 900 Turbo if Im not mistaken.

 

 

I suspect the actual 2002 Turbo was not sold here. Maybe some bros can help explain? My friend bought and restored a 2002Tii in the 80s, then he sold it, the new owner wrecked it within a year, what a waste!!!

[Quantum]

next month will be a lot NA conti cars fall in CAT A,

what is NA conti cars looks like

[LoverofCar]

next month will be a lot NA conti cars fall in CAT A,

what is NA conti cars looks like

 

Not really...there are a full range of Volvo car with TC falling under cat A...

[Quantum]

 

Not really...there are a full range of Volvo car with TC falling under cat A...

In my impression,

Ang mo don't know how to make car without TC

[Knoobie]

 

Not really...there are a full range of Volvo car with TC falling under cat A...

I think the Volvo in CAT A will be the diesel version?

 

the petrol TC one are already 180bhp.. it will be so obvious if they tune it down to sell at CAT A.

[Quantum]

I think the Volvo in CAT A will be the diesel version?

 

the petrol TC one are already 180bhp.. it will be so obvious if they tune it down to sell at CAT A.

Tune down to under 130bhp, buy at CAT A, aftermarket tunning up to 180bhp again,

does it work?

[Knoobie]

Tune down to under 130bhp, buy at CAT A, aftermarket tunning up to 180bhp again,

does it work?

it will not be allowed to be tuned down to 130bhp in the first place.

[Ake109]

I think it is partly a matter of the R&D direction taken in the past decade or so.

 

The Japanese betted on hybrids. The Europeans betted on Direct Injection and Turbo and Diesel.

 

Seems like the way forward now is Direct Injection plus Turbo plus maybe Diesel.

 

I think for Turbos to have good FC and emissions, you really need to pair it up with Direct Injection, otherwise the compression ratio is so low that you suffer when off-boost (which for the japanese, with their majority city-driving, would be a big negative).

 

Another thing is, the rules/laws cater to only 'Paper Spec' when the car is NEW. e.g. Many of these conti-cars, have good specs (including emissions) when they are brand new on paper. But we can see :

 

VAG direct injection engines : Carbon build up on the valves due to the DI cycle not spraying fuel on the valve seats.

DSG : Nice for for FC on paper and new and working perfectly, after a few years, rosak.

Diesel engines : Nice FC and CO2 numbers when new, but look at some of the older Sonatas and Magentis on our roads, all spewing clouds of black fumes under acceleration.

 

It is all really quite wayang. Look good on paper but the reality isnt so rosy.

 

[Wt_know]

turbo turbo turbo ... usa and europe is hunger for bhp/nm

high bhp high nm and and less co2 emission to meet regulation = sure sell

 

japan concentrate on hybrid especially electric and also energy saving

high bhp high nm is not in their high priority

in japan market car maker is focus on small-to-medium car with high efficiency not high power

in japan ... any engine that got turbo means racer car liao ... like wrx, evo, gtr, etc

Edited July 14, 2014 by Wt_know

[Watwheels]

Anything man made has short comings.

 

Turbocharging: better fuel efficiency but more air forced into the engine it will pump in more fuel to match the programmed air/fuel mixture. In the end what ppl are getting is more bang from the buck or more power from a drop of fuel. Is it really fuel saving? Not really.

 

Hybrids: Hybrids reminds me of the catalytic converter. It takes about 6 mins to warm up in order to be efficient when it comes to converting toxic gases to less harmful gas. So before the 6 mins it's spilling toxic gases around us. Something like a temporary measure but not a real solution.

 

Hydrogen Fuel: A workable alternative fuel but it requires rare metals to store the fuel cells in the car. In other words very high cost to buy and probably run.

 

So no real & affordable solutions yet. So might as well make the most out of it before fossil fuel runs out. Enjoy your ride while it lasts. So the question is what would you choose? A TC engine car or a hybrid or a NA engine car? You decide. Don't have much time left.

Edited July 14, 2014 by Watwheels

[inlinesix]

I think it is partly a matter of the R&D direction taken in the past decade or so.

 

The Japanese betted on hybrids. The Europeans betted on Direct Injection and Turbo and Diesel.

 

Seems like the way forward now is Direct Injection plus Turbo plus maybe Diesel.

 

I think for Turbos to have good FC and emissions, you really need to pair it up with Direct Injection, otherwise the compression ratio is so low that you suffer when off-boost (which for the japanese, with their majority city-driving, would be a big negative).

 

Another thing is, the rules/laws cater to only 'Paper Spec' when the car is NEW. e.g. Many of these conti-cars, have good specs (including emissions) when they are brand new on paper. But we can see :

 

VAG direct injection engines : Carbon build up on the valves due to the DI cycle not spraying fuel on the valve seats.

DSG : Nice for for FC on paper and new and working perfectly, after a few years, rosak.

Diesel engines : Nice FC and CO2 numbers when new, but look at some of the older Sonatas and Magentis on our roads, all spewing clouds of black fumes under acceleration.

 

It is all really quite wayang. Look good on paper but the reality isnt so rosy.

 

 

Soon or later, there will be convergent of Turbo, DI & Battery+Motor.

 

DI: The carbon build up is mainly due to city drive. It could be minimized with more frequent oil change + oil catch can.

DSG: VAG problem arised from dry clutch. I haven't hear much bad news on wet clutch. Other than CVT, this will be NEW direction.

Diesel: How come i did not see diesel BMW/Merc in Germany spew clouds of black fumes? In Sg, drivers drive the car very very hard. A 2 yr old Merc cab sounds as bad as 30 yr old Merc cab in MY.

[Baal]

Tune down to under 130bhp, buy at CAT A, aftermarket tunning up to 180bhp again,

does it work?

 

Thats what going on with those C180? Along those lines? From 150-160hp chipped down to 122hp?

 

Heard LTA bought a treadmill for cars.....so even if the mods are not visually apparant...

[Ake109]

 

Soon or later, there will be convergent of Turbo, DI & Battery+Motor.

 

DI: The carbon build up is mainly due to city drive. It could be minimized with more frequent oil change + oil catch can.

DSG: VAG problem arised from dry clutch. I haven't hear much bad news on wet clutch. Other than CVT, this will be NEW direction.

Diesel: How come i did not see diesel BMW/Merc in Germany spew clouds of black fumes? In Sg, drivers drive the car very very hard. A 2 yr old Merc cab sounds as bad as 30 yr old Merc cab in MY.

 

Yes, Turbo + DI + Electric and/or KERS seems to be the way forward. This is going to result in 'normal' cars having 0-100 times that will put 80s performance cars to shame.

 

For diesel, I can think of a few reasons why the situation in Singapore is like this :

 

1.) Maintenance. The latest diesel turbos need very expensive engine oil (low ash, especially). The fleet owners here might be saving a few bucks here.

 

2.) Maintenance . To acheive the fantastic on paper emissions, the engines need the Diesel Paticulate Filters (DPF) in good condition. Again, you bet the companies are saving a few bucks here. DPFs are not cheap and dont last forever. In fact, I understand that some of the cabs here, have their DPFs _removed_ to save on OMV. I don't know how LTA allowed this. Someone might have been sleeping on the job. Not surprising, considering the LTA doesn't seem to up to date with technical knowledge.

 

3.) Sulphur. Some cabbies buy cheap diesel (smuggled in the old days, e.g. there used to be tankers selling smuggled diesel or marine diesel in Jalan Lam Sam in the last decade, not sure how prevalent it is now). The high sulphur content of these, wrecks havoc on the emissions and equipment.

 

4.) In Germany, the drivers own their Mercs. So they take care of it. Here the cabbies drive it like they stole it. Doing things like over-revving or sleeping in the carpark with engine running.

 

5.) Further to point (2) above. The EU6 vehicles that will come soon will need ad-blue to be added in order to acheive their on-paper emissions. You think the average cabby/goods vehicle driver will top up the ad-blue tank? Ha! Again, this is where LTA needs to wake up and do their job.

[inlinesix]

 

Yes, Turbo + DI + Electric and/or KERS seems to be the way forward. This is going to result in 'normal' cars having 0-100 times that will put 80s performance cars to shame.

 

For diesel, I can think of a few reasons why the situation in Singapore is like this :

 

1.) Maintenance. The latest diesel turbos need very expensive engine oil (low ash, especially). The fleet owners here might be saving a few bucks here.

 

2.) Maintenance . To acheive the fantastic on paper emissions, the engines need the Diesel Paticulate Filters (DPF) in good condition. Again, you bet the companies are saving a few bucks here. DPFs are not cheap and dont last forever. In fact, I understand that some of the cabs here, have their DPFs _removed_ to save on OMV. I don't know how LTA allowed this. Someone might have been sleeping on the job. Not surprising, considering the LTA doesn't seem to up to date with technical knowledge.

 

3.) Sulphur. Some cabbies buy cheap diesel (smuggled in the old days, e.g. there used to be tankers selling smuggled diesel or marine diesel in Jalan Lam Sam in the last decade, not sure how prevalent it is now). The high sulphur content of these, wrecks havoc on the emissions and equipment.

 

4.) In Germany, the drivers own their Mercs. So they take care of it. Here the cabbies drive it like they stole it. Doing things like over-revving or sleeping in the carpark with engine running.

 

5.) Further to point (2) above. The EU6 vehicles that will come soon will need ad-blue to be added in order to acheive their on-paper emissions. You think the average cabby/goods vehicle driver will top up the ad-blue tank? Ha! Again, this is where LTA needs to wake up and do their job.

It is not LTA sleeping. It is NEA sleeping.

 

If DPF can be removed & not caught, u need to ask all the inspection centre.

 

Sooner or later, taxi will be purely hybrid as these diesel taxi will fail inspection from poor maintenance.

[Rocketmania]

wrote in before to NEA they push to LTA