Dear CPF: Give Me Back My Money!

[Wt_know]

hard truth ...

 

cpf is to provide retirement

hdb is to provide affordable housing

 

now both are heavily intertwined and going up up up

 

Like I said before so many times. Cpf and hdb had long lost it initial mission, which was an excellent one.

 

Edited March 23, 2019 by Wt_know

[Throttle2]

Hard truth?

Its Singapore Inc

Thats the hard truth.

[Tiger1]

And it is also hard truth if you choose to vote the same white ants, you deserved to be screwed. Just don't scream pain pain cos you had chosen to be screwed!

[BanCoe]

cpf scheme is great

but when cpf is heavily linked to hdb = asset enhancement

there is where problem getting bigger and bigger

hdb price goes down ... coepeh

cpf withdraw extend to longer ... cowpeh

how to have the cake and eat it?

.

.

.

just like a wise man say your hdb value will continue to rise if the right people is governing

and now another wise man say your hdb is $0

I want to change from BanCoe to CoePehCOE

[Albeniz]

And it is also hard truth if you choose to vote the same white ants, you deserved to be screwed. Just don't scream pain pain cos you had chosen to be screwed!

Quite a number of supporters are new citizens.

 

GRC and new citizens. The surest and safest ways to secure votes.

Edited March 23, 2019 by Albeniz

[Heartlander]

If your ordinary account had been used to pay for HDB flat over 20 to 30 years depleting the account, and when your HDB flat becomes zero in values, at old age where are you going to find a roof over your head and where is any significant savings in CPF to live a similar life style as prior to retirement.

 

I would think that so long as we do not touch any HDB flat that is reaching the end of tenure, or get one that could reach end of tenure during your possession, then you will be spared the pain of having a zero value asset.

 

In the past the policy had not been clear and now that it had been made clear, it will be your fault only if you still insist on holding on or trying to get hold of a hot potato.

 

I would think that no government official has ever proclaimed that a HDB reaching its tenure will be renewed automatically as everyone should know that it is not possible to extend SERS to every old flat, just a lot of assumption on the ground that are subsequently disappointed and bitter about it. In fact I was glad when somebody finally clarified the official stand. As usual some will gain some will lose on any policy crafted, lets move on and build a better safety net for our retirement. Be wise and do not touch any very old unit and you will be more or less safe. Actually saving for retirement is quite a complex issue, housing is just one of the factor/pillar. It should not be the only pillar.

[Ash2017]

"85% of Singaporeans are living in HDB flats and we intend to keep the values of these homes up. It will never go down."

Lee Kuan Yew, 20 March 2011, "MM: Your HDB home value will never drop", Straits Times.

 

 

 

When Goh Chok Tong became Prime Minister in 1990, he introduced the “Asset Enhancement” policy, which was supposed to help enhance the prices of HDB flats for Singaporeans.

This policy was continued with his successor as Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong. PM Lee said at an international conference in 2010, “But the environment has changed.  Singaporeans’ aspirations have risen sharply.  Finding a roof over our heads is no longer the pressing requirement.  The HDB flat is not just a shelter but also a key investment asset…over the long term, the value of HDB flats depends on the strength of the Singapore economy.  Provided Singapore continues to do well, our flats will maintain their value, and Singaporeans can enjoy an appreciating asset.”

In fact, just before 2011 General Election, then National Development Minister Mah Bow Tan even said, “We’re proud of the asset enhancement policy. (It) has given almost all Singaporeans a home of their own… that grows in value over time.”

 

I would think that so long as we do not touch any HDB flat that is reaching the end of tenure, or get one that could reach end of tenure during your possession, then you will be spared the pain of having a zero value asset.

 

In the past the policy had not been clear and now that it had been made clear, it will be your fault only if you still insist on holding on or trying to get hold of a hot potato.

 

I would think that no government official has ever proclaimed that a HDB reaching its tenure will be renewed automatically as everyone should know that it is not possible to extend SERS to every old flat, just a lot of assumption on the ground that are subsequently disappointed and bitter about it. In fact I was glad when somebody finally clarified the official stand. As usual some will gain some will lose on any policy crafted, lets move on and build a better safety net for our retirement. Be wise and do not touch any very old unit and you will be more or less safe. Actually saving for retirement is quite a complex issue, housing is just one of the factor/pillar. It should not be the only pillar.

 

[Heartlander]

 

"85% of Singaporeans are living in HDB flats and we intend to keep the values of these homes up. It will never go down."

Lee Kuan Yew, 20 March 2011, "MM: Your HDB home value will never drop", Straits Times.

 

 

 

When Goh Chok Tong became Prime Minister in 1990, he introduced the “Asset Enhancement” policy, which was supposed to help enhance the prices of HDB flats for Singaporeans.

This policy was continued with his successor as Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong. PM Lee said at an international conference in 2010, “But the environment has changed.  Singaporeans’ aspirations have risen sharply.  Finding a roof over our heads is no longer the pressing requirement.  The HDB flat is not just a shelter but also a key investment asset…over the long term, the value of HDB flats depends on the strength of the Singapore economy.  Provided Singapore continues to do well, our flats will maintain their value, and Singaporeans can enjoy an appreciating asset.”

In fact, just before 2011 General Election, then National Development Minister Mah Bow Tan even said, “We’re proud of the asset enhancement policy. (It) has given almost all Singaporeans a home of their own… that grows in value over time.”

 

What LKY talked about could be about flat ownership generally, that its value will appreciate when times are good. I do not think he is ignorant to say that values of flats will continue to rise even in bad times, this is pretty obvious isn't it? Did any body ever announced that the flats will continue to rise in values after it has run its 99 years of tenure? 

 

I remember very hesitant when deciding against getting very old flats as nobody talked about what happens when the lease run out. Everyone were just assuming that it will automatically renewed, but I did not dare to get one because there was no black and white about it.

 

Perhaps the government has been shaking its head all along that the citizens could be so goondu/ignorant, as isn't it so obvious that all flats all comes with a lease of 99 years? And what is the meaning of a 99 years lease? 

 

What you quoted is still quite true, just that we have to be reminded to look at the tenure when we get one. And  do not get one that is near to its ORD.

Edited March 23, 2019 by Heartlander

[Ash2017]

I understand your logical conclusion but what you and I conclude would contradict "asset enhancement policy".

 

What LKY talked about could be about flat ownership generally, that its value will appreciate when times are good. I do not think he is ignorant to say that values of flats will continue to rise even in bad times, this is pretty obvious isn't it? Did any body ever announced that the flats will continue to rise in values after it has run its 99 years of tenure? 

 

I remember very hesitant when deciding against getting very old flats as nobody talked about what happens when the lease run out. Everyone were just assuming that it will automatically renewed, but I did not dare to get one because there was no black and white about it.

 

Perhaps the government has been shaking its head all along that the citizens could be so goondu/ignorant, as isn't it so obvious that all flats all comes with a lease of 99 years? And what is the meaning of a 99 years lease? 

 

What you quoted is still quite true, just that we have to be reminded to look at the tenure when we get one. And  do not get one that is near to its ORD.

 

[Kopites]

I completely agree with about overspending lifestyle.

 

Look just in MCF

 

There are watch salesman who tried to portrait the atas style of living and convince you, you have arrived when you buy one and wear one. What is the difference from MLM? All trying to con others for personal gain.

 

Did anybody see Radx promoting his multi-million dollar underworld business (perhaps on very few occasion when approaching 7th month)?

 

 

With regards to CPF, a promise or compact had been made between the government and the people that they would be allowed to withdraw completely when reached 55 years old. This was completely destroyed by the government. You go to bank and make a fixed deposit for 1 year and when 1 year is reached you go to the bank to withdraw but the bank say you likely spend your money on girls Staff69 did not want to pick up, they deny you and say come back in 15 years and we slowly disburse small amount of money to you.

 

CPF is a retirement protection and the people believe the that the CPF would grow. For many decades the government had telling the people, your HDB flat (80 plus % of Singaporeans) will ONLY INCREASE in value not only in solemn parliament session but also at each and every past general elections. So people are willing to pay whenever the government decides to sell because they believe the money would be returned to their CPF or if not cash. Then last few years the government say your HDB would become zero? This time ownself say ownself.

 

If your ordinary account had been used to pay for HDB flat over 20 to 30 years depleting the account, and when your HDB flat becomes zero in values, at old age where are you going to find a roof over your head and where is any significant savings in CPF to live a similar life style as prior to retirement.

 

Please as others read your reasoning, appreciate if you may also read others reasoning with an open mind.

 

It is great if you are loyal party supporter, but don't be blinded supporter, so blinded that even if it kills your fellow citizens you still have blind faith. If that is true, the Catholic Church Pope would like a word with you on the power of

blind faith.

Can I sum up for you?

[Heartlander]

I understand your logical conclusion but what you and I conclude would contradict "asset enhancement policy".

Perhaps what the government failed to do had been to spell everything out very clearly when touting the "asset enhancement policy",that it intends to repossess the flats when its tenure runs out. 

 

But I am sure I am not the only ones worried about this situation, thus not touching very old HDB units. Curious anyone else also feeling the same?

[Kopites]

What LKY talked about could be about flat ownership generally, that its value will appreciate when times are good. I do not think he is ignorant to say that values of flats will continue to rise even in bad times, this is pretty obvious isn't it? Did any body ever announced that the flats will continue to rise in values after it has run its 99 years of tenure?

 

I remember very hesitant when deciding against getting very old flats as nobody talked about what happens when the lease run out. Everyone were just assuming that it will automatically renewed, but I did not dare to get one because there was no black and white about it.

 

Perhaps the government has been shaking its head all along that the citizens could be so goondu/ignorant, as isn't it so obvious that all flats all comes with a lease of 99 years? And what is the meaning of a 99 years lease?

 

What you quoted is still quite true, just that we have to be reminded to look at the tenure when we get one. And do not get one that is near to its ORD.

Well, whether getting a new BTO or a resales old flat the lease eventually will still run out either with you (long life) or with your next generation.

 

The bottom line with hdb is to make it cheap and affordable for all citizen without needing citizen to work for their whole life merely to rent the hdb unit.

 

Remove the land cost (left to right pocket) and see how the pricing head southward or northward.

 

Current situation there will come and era that a hdb unit will need two generation to service the loan.

Perhaps what the government failed to do had been to spell everything out very clearly when touting the "asset enhancement policy",that it intends to repossess the flats when its tenure runs out.

 

But I am sure I am not the only ones worried about this situation, thus not touching very old HDB units. Curious anyone else also feeling the same?

General discussion.

 

Even with a new unit bto do you intend to pass onto your next generation?

Perhaps what the government failed to do had been to spell everything out very clearly when touting the "asset enhancement policy",that it intends to repossess the flats when its tenure runs out.

 

But I am sure I am not the only ones worried about this situation, thus not touching very old HDB units. Curious anyone else also feeling the same?

General discussion.

 

Even with a new unit bto do you intend to pass onto your next generation?

[Ash2017]

Perhaps what the government failed to do had been to spell everything out very clearly when touting the "asset enhancement policy",that it intends to repossess the flats when its tenure runs out. 

 

But I am sure I am not the only ones worried about this situation, thus not touching very old HDB units. Curious anyone else also feeling the same?

 

 

In other countries (UK and HK), at the end of the lease, the government allows the leasee can pay a small premium to extend the lease.

 

Singapore can do that too, but I guess their aim is to squeeze every drop of potential revenue (profit) from all sources.

 

I can't imagine the first batch of HDB residents whose lease runs out, there would be thousands who cant afford a new home would be left roofless.

 

But the government is smart, announcing this reality now, so give the next generation to prepare to buy their own flat and not rely on their parents.

 

 

 

[Kopites]

In other countries (UK and HK), at the end of the lease, the government allows the leasee can pay a small premium to extend the lease.

 

Singapore can do that too, but I guess their aim is to squeeze every drop of potential revenue (profit) from all sources.

 

I can't imagine the first batch of HDB residents whose lease runs out, there would be thousands who cant afford a new home would be left roofless.

 

But the government is smart, announcing this reality now, so give the next generation to prepare to buy their own flat and not rely on their parents.

It will be politically suicide to leave thousand homeless.

 

Furthermore many of them will be in their twilight years. Likely many will be house under rental unit or at even smaller unit.

 

Your last point. Fully agreed. Younger working adults likely to get a newer fresh unit which literally means restart the cycle working whole life to service another 99 years lease.

 

Inherit a unit that are fully paid up bring the government zero or no benefit at all.

[Heartlander]

In other countries (UK and HK), at the end of the lease, the government allows the leasee can pay a small premium to extend the lease.

 

Singapore can do that too, but I guess their aim is to squeeze every drop of potential revenue (profit) from all sources.

 

I can't imagine the first batch of HDB residents whose lease runs out, there would be thousands who cant afford a new home would be left roofless.

 

But the government is smart, announcing this reality now, so give the next generation to prepare to buy their own flat and not rely on their parents.

I am not familiar with what UK and HK are doing, but one is a famous welfare state while another has a very low base of public housing.

 

Do you think given our situtation, would it bankrupt the government eventually if it is to renew the flats tenure whenever they run out given the size of its public housing? And if the answer is true, do you still think it should do that?

 

I would think the answer is pretty obvious. Which outcome would you prefer?

 

I would think there would be eventually some welfare measures to manage those whose flats are repossess, but that is yet to be seen. Just guessing only.

[Kopites]

I am not familiar with what UK and HK are doing, but one is a famous welfare state while another has a very low base of public housing.

 

Do you think given our situtation, would it bankrupt the government eventually if it is to renew the flats tenure whenever they run out given the size of its public housing? And if the answer is true, do you still think it should do that?

 

I would think the answer is pretty obvious. Which outcome would you prefer?

 

I would think there would be eventually some welfare measures to manage those whose flats are repossess, but that is yet to be seen. Just guessing only.

The biggest creditors are hdb and ura. Bankrupt?

 

If I am the government. "I would like to ask how do we tied down the younger generation to continue contribute to spore economic".

 

A pricy so called asset that they need to spend their life time to service the loan. Their next generation can repeat the whole cycle.

 

Come to think of it..a coe last you for 10 years upfront. A hdb last you for 99 years. Monthly servicing of loan. There is a resales market. You do not own the asset. One last you for 10 years. One last you for 99 years. Cycle to be repeated after tenure run out.

Edited March 23, 2019 by Kopites

[Heartlander]

The biggest creditors are hdb and ura. Bankrupt?

 

If I am the government. "I would like to ask how do we tied down the younger generation to continue contribute to spore economic".

 

A pricy so called asset that they need to spend their life time to service the loan. Their next generation can repeat the whole cycle.

 

Come to think of it..a coe last you for 10 years upfront. A hdb last you for 99 years. Monthly servicing of loan. There is a resales market. You do not own the asset. One last you for 10 years. One last you for 99 years. Cycle to be repeated after tenure run out.

Good analogy. But at least the price of flats has potential to go higher and higher till near its sunset years where it will diminish till zero value. To a smaller extent some car owners might benefit due to fluctuation of COE, myself included. But the gain is much less than that for housing.

 

If you think our houses are so expensive, how about for HK? Are the HK citizens able to buy cheap public housing for all? And how many generations do they take to service the loans right now, for how big the units? At least most of us here now are able to finish paying the loan in 10 to 20 years.

 

I am always baffled by how we like to complain about everything. HDB value high we complain, value drop we also complain. Understanding that it is not something the hovernment can control to a T, to me i prefer abit higher as at least i can unlock to release the gain when needed, but of course not so high to the extent that it will take 2 generations to repay. At least the values of HDB has been rising steadily over the last few decades so to me there is nothing wrong to term it asset enhancement. Just be wise not to buy older units.

[Nhyone]

Purchasing an old unit so as to stay on the same block with my mum. Taking care of her. There is a formula age over the number of lease you can use from your OA. Balance either you take up loan or mortgage from the bank.

 

 

The CPF rule is there to ensure you don't inevitably "lose" your CPF, as such flats are, despite whatever a statesman or propaganda might claim otherwise, depreciating assets. You are spending your retirement savings.

 

Lease is a problem now because it has been ignored for too long.

 

To ease loan restriction for old flats is a double-edge sword. It keeps the value up now, but the decline will be steeper in the future -- the final value is still $0 at 99 years old. (This is something the Government can change at a stroke of a pen. Just allow lease to be extended.)