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#1

Posted 25 November 2013 - 03:07 PM

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Cars that run on hydrogen and exhaust only water vapor are emerging to challenge electric vehicles as the world’s transportation of the future.

 
At auto shows on two continents Wednesday, three automakers unveiled hydrogen fuel cell vehicles to be delivered to the general public as early as next spring.
 
Hyundai Motor Co. will be the first to the mass market in the U.S. It unveiled a hydrogen-powered Tucson small SUV at the Los Angeles Auto Show that will be leased to consumers. Honda also revealed plans in Los Angeles for a car due out in 2015. Earlier, at the Tokyo Motor Show, Toyota promised a mass-produced fuel cell car by 2015 in Japan and 2016 in the U.S.
 
Hydrogen cars are appealing because unlike electric vehicles, they have the range of a typical gasoline car and can be refueled quickly. Experts say the industry also has overcome safety and reliability concerns that have hindered distribution in the past.
 
But hydrogen cars still have a glaring downside — refueling stations are scarce, and costly to build.
 
Consumers can expect costs in line with some luxury models. In Tokyo, Toyota promised a price of $50,000 to $100,000, and as close to the lower figure as possible. That’s comparable to its Lexus luxury sedans, but a range that makes the once space-age experiment with fuel cells more credible.
 
Hyundai said it will lease the Tucsons for $499 per month for three years with $3,000 down. And Hyundai is offering to pay the hydrogen and maintenance costs. The company will start leasing in the Los Angeles area, where most of the state’s nine fueling stations are located. California lawmakers have allocated $100 million to build 100 more. Honda wouldn’t reveal any pricing details.
 
Even as battery-powered and hybrid-electric cars took on conventional gasoline models in the past decade, automakers continued research into hydrogen fuel cells, said Paul Mutolo, director of external partnerships for the Cornell University Energy Materials Center. Manufacturers now are limited only by costs and the lack of filling stations, he said.
 
Hydrogen cars, Mutolo said, have an advantage over battery-powered electric cars because drivers don’t have to worry about running out of electricity and having to wait hours for recharging. “It’s very similar to the kind of behavior that drivers have come to expect from their gasoline cars,” he said.
 
Hydrogen fuel cells use a complex chemical process to separate electrons and protons in hydrogen gas molecules. The electrons move toward a positive pole, and the movement creates electricity. That powers a car’s electric motor, which turns the wheels.
 
Since the hydrogen isn’t burned, there’s no pollution. Instead, oxygen also is pumped into the system, and when it meets the hydrogen ions and electrons, that creates water and heat. The only byproduct is water. A fuel cell produces only about one volt of electricity, so many are stacked to generate enough juice.
 
Hydrogen costs as little as $3 for an amount needed to power a car the same distance as a gallon of gasoline, Mutolo said.
 

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#2

Posted 26 November 2013 - 10:39 AM

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Thanks. Hydrogen cars make most sense to me. CNG doesn't, to me, cos it's still a natural mining resource like oil. Electric cars are "stupid" because of the time it takes to charge them. Battery-operated cars are just so clumsy, may fail catastrophically, and are not environmentally friendly to product in the first place...


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#3

Posted 28 June 2019 - 05:12 PM

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Yeah.. Finally got a kick-start from Japan. I also feel hydrogen cars are the way of future not really electric cars.
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#4

Posted 28 June 2019 - 05:20 PM

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Remember the Hindenburg



#5

Posted 28 June 2019 - 10:17 PM

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bmw E65 760Li Hydrogen 7  [drivingcar]


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#6

Posted 28 June 2019 - 10:20 PM

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Remember the Hindenburg

Oh, I googled it and hindenburg disaster happened in 1937. Now is 2019, I am sure there are a lot of safety protocols in place and advancement in technology that also help mitigate the risk of hydrogen explosion.
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#7

Posted 28 June 2019 - 10:32 PM

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Oh, I googled it and hindenburg disaster happened in 1937. Now is 2019, I am sure there are a lot of safety protocols in place and advancement in technology that also help mitigate the risk of hydrogen explosion.

 

Hydrogen explosive power has not changed for millennia, it will never change.

Try to tame a wild horse with new techniques, but the wild horse beneath still remains. 

 

Already, current news of exploding lithium battery powered cars are in the news.

No one will want an exploding hydrogen powered car. [laugh]



#8

Posted 29 June 2019 - 12:42 PM

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Apparently the hydrogen tanks are CF reinforced and bulletproof. Also I read that hydrogen dissipates into the atmosphere very quickly and is not likely to exist as an explosive mixture. Petrol, however, exists as a liquid or heavy vapour that contains a lot of energy and even more likely to explode.

It is comparatively safer than the typical plastic petrol tank we have in our cars now.

Edited by Toeknee_33, 29 June 2019 - 12:44 PM.

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#9

Posted 29 June 2019 - 01:06 PM

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Man has a century-long love affair with the automobile for a simple reason - it give us freedom.

A fuel-powered internal combustion engine automobile allows one to go as far as we desire, and when it runs out of juice, just pop into a fuel station, top up the tank in 5 minutes, and continue on the journey. Freedom - to go where we want to go, on road or off-road, as far as you want, as long as there is fuel. Even if there is no fuel station, you can pack spare fuel in the vehicle.

Fancy a drive to Bangkok tomorrow? You can!

You can't quite do that with an electric vehicle. You need to plan your route carefully taking into account the availability of charging stations. There is this emotion called range anxiety we need to deal with. Even if there are charging stations everywhere, there is still the considerable charging time. Your journey is interrupted. Of course it is not possible to go off-roading in an electric vehicle. Getting stranded is a real possibility. Freedom is compromised.

A hydrogen-powered automobile returns some of that freedom to us, compared to an electric one. Provided that there is an available network of hydrogen refuelling station, it's the closest thing to a fossil-fuel vehicle.

Edited by Toeknee_33, 29 June 2019 - 01:22 PM.

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#10

Posted 29 June 2019 - 01:22 PM

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Man has a century-long love affair with the automobile for a simple reason - it give us freedom.

A fuel-powered internal combustion engine automobile allows one to go as far as we desire, and when it runs out of juice, just pop into a fuel station, top up the tank in 5 minutes, and continue on the journey. Freedom - to go where we want to go, on road or off-road, as far as you want, as long as there is fuel. Even if there is no fuel station, you can pack spare fuel in the vehicle.

You can't quite do that with an electric vehicle. You need to plan your route carefully taking into account the availability of charging stations. There is this emotion called range anxiety we need to deal with. Even if there are charging stations everywhere, there is still the considerable charging time. Your journey is interrupted. Of course it is not possible to go off-roading in an electric vehicle. Getting stranded is a real possibility. Freedom is compromised.

A hydrogen-powered automobile returns some of that freedom to us, compared to an electric one. Provided that there is an available network of hydrogen refuelling station, it's the closest thing to a fossil-fuel vehicle.

Doesnt apply to sg and its drivers. For us, we're driven by convenience

#11

Posted 29 June 2019 - 01:31 PM

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Doesnt apply to sg and its drivers. For us, we're driven by convenience

Well, I was sharing my thoughts about automobile as a phenomenon, not just about the applicability in Singapore.

Even in SG, where perhaps 90% of us stay in high-rise apartments, charging up our electric vehicles is going to be a challenge.

#12

Posted 29 June 2019 - 01:57 PM

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Apparently the hydrogen tanks are CF reinforced and bulletproof. Also I read that hydrogen dissipates into the atmosphere very quickly and is not likely to exist as an explosive mixture. Petrol, however, exists as a liquid or heavy vapour that contains a lot of energy and even more likely to explode.

It is comparatively safer than the typical plastic petrol tank we have in our cars now.

Petrol is also a form of hydrogen anyway haha just with carbon molecules
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#13

Posted 29 June 2019 - 01:59 PM

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Doesn't apply to any country either, as far as I understand hydrogen refueling stations are not common yet even in the U.S. However, it is not more difficult to transport hydrogen than transporting petrol in a truck. So when there is a demand, it should be fairly easy to distribute hydrogen to existing petrol stations.

 

The real problem is not with lack of hydrogen stations, but with harvesting and extracting hydrogen (e.g. from water) as there isn't much naturally occurring hydrogen in our environment. New technology has been developed lately which is driving the new discussions on Hydrogen Fuel Cell cars.

 

Doesnt apply to sg and its drivers. For us, we're driven by convenience

 


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#14

Posted 29 June 2019 - 02:13 PM

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Water tax to be raise 1000%.

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#15

Posted 29 June 2019 - 02:52 PM

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Well, I was sharing my thoughts about automobile as a phenomenon, not just about the applicability in Singapore.

Even in SG, where perhaps 90% of us stay in high-rise apartments, charging up our electric vehicles is going to be a challenge.

 

maybe, but if the sg govt says they'll back electric cars, then we know what will happen......  they'll tender out 8-min charging stations for every carpark, reduce no. of petrol and diesel stations, increase petol tax x10, etc. Rather than suffer all these, we'll just stick to what's convenient in the country. With satellite erp, i foresee they'll be smart enough to analyse each driver and remind them when/where to charge.

 

Driving up to bangkok? Trust me... if SG cars are 100% electric, MY businesses will queue to provide charging stations all along NSH



#16

Posted 29 June 2019 - 03:11 PM

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SG will never back electric cars, we do not have cheap sources of electricity such as nuclear power like China or US. Hydrogen could be a possible alternative when technology matures.

 

MY is more likely to back electric cars than SG, but they are not motivated to do, with cheap petrol and cheap petrol cars, together with higher costs of manufacturing electric cars and complication with batteries.

 

maybe, but if the sg govt says they'll back electric cars, then we know what will happen......  they'll tender out 8-min charging stations for every carpark, reduce no. of petrol and diesel stations, increase petol tax x10, etc. Rather than suffer all these, we'll just stick to what's convenient in the country. With satellite erp, i foresee they'll be smart enough to analyse each driver and remind them when/where to charge.

 

Driving up to bangkok? Trust me... if SG cars are 100% electric, MY businesses will queue to provide charging stations all along NSH

 



#17

Posted 29 June 2019 - 04:56 PM

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What about Hydrogen diesel hybrid vehicle?
Adding hydrogen into a normal Diesel engine.
It could double the mileage of diesel and reduce the emission.
If hydrogen run out, can still move as normal diesel vehicle.
Singapore got this tech already.
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#18

Posted 29 June 2019 - 05:17 PM

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SG will never back electric cars, we do not have cheap sources of electricity such as nuclear power like China or US. Hydrogen could be a possible alternative when technology matures.

MY is more likely to back electric cars than SG, but they are not motivated to do, with cheap petrol and cheap petrol cars, together with higher costs of manufacturing electric cars and complication with batteries.

Car dealers gonna die with phasing out of ICE by 2050.

Or we gonna stuck with outdated car

#19

Posted 29 June 2019 - 07:55 PM

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Doesn't apply to any country either, as far as I understand hydrogen refueling stations are not common yet even in the U.S. However, it is not more difficult to transport hydrogen than transporting petrol in a truck. So when there is a demand, it should be fairly easy to distribute hydrogen to existing petrol stations.

 

The real problem is not with lack of hydrogen stations, but with harvesting and extracting hydrogen (e.g. from water) as there isn't much naturally occurring hydrogen in our environment. New technology has been developed lately which is driving the new discussions on Hydrogen Fuel Cell cars.

 

If this gets through , all the petroleum co can close shop   :D


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#20

Posted 29 June 2019 - 08:07 PM

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If this gets through , all the petroleum co can close shop :D

They are invested in these new developments. Shell and Toyota got some partnership.


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