Jump to content

  • Search this thread
  • Reply to this topic
650 replies to this topic | 2,190 praises

#1

Posted 21 September 2015 - 12:37 PM

Caravan
  • THREAD STARTER
  • Caravan
    6th Gear
    The points of the user determines the rank. The higher the points, the higher the rank.
    Author Image
    The bar represents the rank and points of the user. The longer the bar, the higher the rank and points.
     
    Points:
    Points are accumulated from other users who Praise or Disliked this users' posts.
    2,593
      Joined: 01 January 2003
      Posts: 1,679
     

http://www.bloomberg...clean-air-group

http://www.latimes.c...0918-story.html

 

 

Volkswagen called them “clean diesels,” branding them as the fun-to-drive alternatives to hybrids as it dominated the U.S. market for the engine technology.

Turns out the increasingly eco-conscious buyers of the sporty German cars have been unwittingly pumping smog into the air — because of software VW installed to cheat on U.S. emissions tests.

The world’s largest automaker has admitted selling 482,000 such diesels since 2009, California and U.S. regulators announced Friday. The scandal could cost the company billions of dollars in fines and lawsuit judgments and threatens to stunt the development of all diesel vehicles.

Autos editor Brian Thevenot explains how Volkswagen used a software trick to hide illegal pollution levels in half a million diesel cars.

VW’s software trick allows the cars to emit up to 40 times the legally allowed amount of nitrogen oxide, environmental officials said. The automaker will have to recall all the vehicles and modify the emissions systems at its own expense, regulators said. Additionally it could face a fine of about $18 billion, or $37,500 per car, federal environmental officials said.

“It's pretty ugly,” Kelley Blue Book analyst Karl Brauer said. “Volkswagen has far outstripped everyone else in selling diesel cars. This challenges everything they've been saying about those vehicles.”

Nitrogen oxide is among the auto pollutants that put more smog into California’s skies, Air Resources Board Executive Officer Richard Corey said.

“Under the hot California sun [nitrogen oxide] cooks and creates ozone and fine particles,” Corey said.

Many owners of VW diesels — who tend to be enthusiasts — were enraged at being deceived.

“It's just a blatant disregard and intentional manipulation of the system,” said Priya Shah, a San Francisco owner of a 2012 VW diesel Jetta station wagon. “Not only lying to the government, but also lying to your consumer. People buy diesel cars from VW because they feel they are clean diesel cars.”

Shah said the car is likely to be her last Volkswagen.

Justin Balthrop, of Topanga, has driven four VWs over many years and just bought a 2015 Golf TDI because of its mix of performance and fuel efficiency.

He’s concerned that bringing the car into compliance with pollution limits might lower its fuel mileage.

“I was just kind of shocked that they would do that,” said Balthrop, 36.

The affected diesel models include: Jetta (model years 2009-15), Beetle (model years 2009-15), Audi A3 (model years 2009-15), Golf (model years 2009-15), and Passat (model years 2012-15).

The EPA made its charges by sending Volksagen a notice of violation of the Clean Air Act. It covers models equipped with 2.0-liter, four-cylinder diesel engines. The California Air Resources Board issued a similar letter for violations of state regulations.

 

Volkswagen and Audi vehicles from model years 2009 to 2015 have the software, which uses an algorithm that automatically detects when the vehicle is undergoing pollution tests and changes the way it performs.

The EPA said the device senses the testing environment by analyzing a variety of data — steering position, speed, duration of engine operation and barometric pressure.

“These inputs precisely track the parameters of the federal test procedure,” the agency wrote in its notice of violation to VW.

The test manipulation “is illegal and a threat to public health,” said Cynthia Giles, assistant administrator for the Office of Enforcement and Compliance Assurance. “We expected better from VW.”

Volkswagen admitted that the cars contained “defeat devices,” after EPA and the state air regulator demanded an explanation for the emission problems.

Volkswagen is the world’s biggest auto company, outselling Toyota and General Motors this year. The automaker issued a statement saying it is cooperating with the investigation and declined further comment.

It is also by far the industry leader in diesel car sales in the U.S. The German automaker last year sold 78,847 diesel passenger vehicles in the U.S., well ahead of its nearest competitor, according to online auto sales company TrueCar. Its corporate sibling Audi sold 15,732 vehicles during the same period.

Diesel vehicles made up about 3% of U.S. auto sales last year, similar to the share of hybrid cars. Many have viewed diesel as a promising green technology that could grow as the nation heads for more stringent fuel economy standards.

The state Air Resources Board became suspicious after hearing about emissions problems from automotive pollution analysts in Europe, Corey said. Additionally, researchers at West Virginia University, working with the International Council on Clean Transportation, a nongovernmental organization, raised questions about emissions levels.

Air board investigators started testing the vehicles on a special dynamometer — a kind of treadmill for vehicle testing — and on the open road using portable equipment.

The investigation showed the cars behaving quite differently on the open road than in EPA testing environments. The agency devised a special test that detected how software on the engine’s electronic control module was fooling the certification tests.

VW programmed the engines to detect certification tests over many years and through three generations of engines, said Dave Sullivan, manager of product analysis at consulting firm AutoPacific Inc.

Officials did not specify VW’s motivation for cheating, but some benefits might be to increase real-world performance or fuel economy, Sullivan said.

In addition to fines, VW will likely face consumer lawsuits on two fronts, said Steve Berman, a class action attorney in Seattle who has successfully brought such cases against Toyota, Hyundai among others.

Berman said he is already preparing a lawsuit on behalf of a Marin County, Calif. owner who bought a VW because it was marketed as a clean car and “now they find out it was polluting the environment at 40 times standards.”

VW also will face what is known as a “diminished value” lawsuit because the vehicles are likely to lose a portion of their resale value because of the problem, he said.

“They will have to retool the emissions system, and that will hurt the performance of the car,” Berman said.

Luke Tonachel, director clean vehicles and fuels project at Natural Resources Defense Council, was puzzled as to why VW would have to cheat.

“Other vehicle manufacturers don’t appear to be doing the same thing, but still get good performance from diesel vehicles,” Tonachel said.

But he fumed at VW’s actions.

“Tightening government standards are making cars cleaner, and it is disturbing to learn that VW is flouting those standards,” Tonachel said. “The EPA action is important to protecting public health.”

Consumers should not read VW’s action as an indictment of all diesel cars, said Don Anair, research director for the Clean Vehicles Program at the Union of Concerned Scientists.

“There has been major progress in advancing emissions controls for diesels over the past 10 years,” Anair said. “That’s a fact. This is a problem with the manufacturer, not the technology.”

Consumer Reports on Friday suspended its recommendation for two of the diesels, the Jetta and Passat.

VW will have to develop a fix to bring the cars into compliance with federal and state clean air, regulators said. Owners can continue to drive the cars — there is no safety issue — and can still sell them, regulators said.

But the automaker and regulators may have trouble getting consumers to bring their cars into get fixed — especially if the fix decreases performance or fuel economy, the main selling points for the cars.

“It is not like the engines are catching on fire,” Sullivan said. “They will think that if it is not broken, why fix it?”

The public relations damage may ultimately be worse for the technology than the VW brand, said TrueCar analyst Eric Lyman. Volkswagen and Audi are largely responsible for selling American consumers on the idea that “clean” diesel is a viable green alternative.

“This is going to be a blow to the progress they’ve made and may call into question whether this is a clean technology at all,” Lyman said.

 

 

Hmm how will this impact the emissions rebate for VW cars here?


F355, Bacteria83, Nicfoo, Micb, Tonydeath and 3 Anonymous members praised this

#2

Posted 21 September 2015 - 01:02 PM

Forte3737

Another bashing thread?


BanCoe, Ktglfc and 2 Anonymous members praised this

#3

Posted 21 September 2015 - 01:07 PM

Little_prince
  • Premium member
    Little_prince
    2Fast2Furious
    The points of the user determines the rank. The higher the points, the higher the rank.
    Author Image
    The bar represents the rank and points of the user. The longer the bar, the higher the rank and points.
     
    Points:
    Points are accumulated from other users who Praise or Disliked this users' posts.
    49,123
      Joined: 20 January 2009
      Posts: 19,542
     

it's not bashing if it's the truth.


Xanavi, Hydrocarbon, Mercury1, Volvobrick, Fuelsaver, Count-Bracula, Ivan_06, 3 other members and 1 Anonymous member praised this
"Everybody is a genius. But, if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it'll spend it's whole life believing that it is stupid." - Albert Einstein

HungryPaPa - https://instagram.com/hungrypapa/

#4

Posted 21 September 2015 - 01:35 PM

Xanavi
  • Premium member
    Xanavi
    5th Gear
    The points of the user determines the rank. The higher the points, the higher the rank.
    Author Image
    The bar represents the rank and points of the user. The longer the bar, the higher the rank and points.
     
    Points:
    Points are accumulated from other users who Praise or Disliked this users' posts.
    1,458
      Joined: 07 June 2012
      Posts: 631
     

Another bashing thread?


How can it be called bashing when TS just quote the news?

Edited by Xanavi, 21 September 2015 - 01:37 PM.

Windkel20, F355, Mercury1, Baal, Micb, Ivan_06, BanCoe, 2 other members and 2 Anonymous members praised this
發啊!

#5

Posted 21 September 2015 - 01:46 PM

Mustank
  • Mustank
    2Fast2Furious
    The points of the user determines the rank. The higher the points, the higher the rank.
    Author Image
    The bar represents the rank and points of the user. The longer the bar, the higher the rank and points.
     
    Points:
    Points are accumulated from other users who Praise or Disliked this users' posts.
    105,964
      Joined: 03 May 2007
      Posts: 39,417
     

time to up the diesel tax for vw diesel? [sly]


Darryn and 1 Anonymous member praised this

#6

Posted 21 September 2015 - 02:35 PM

Tianmo
  • Premium member
    Tianmo
    2Fast2Furious
    The points of the user determines the rank. The higher the points, the higher the rank.
    Author Image
    The bar represents the rank and points of the user. The longer the bar, the higher the rank and points.
     
    Points:
    Points are accumulated from other users who Praise or Disliked this users' posts.
    127,634
      Joined: 22 March 2010
      Posts: 40,528
     

Another bashing thread?

 

 

reported in news.................bash simi LJ..............you cannot read or you too lazy to read???............


Bismarck, Xanavi, F355, Blackyv, Baal, Uncle2, Carnoob, 3 other members and 2 Anonymous members praised this
芸芸人海,罪孽深重,神佛不渡,唯我魔渡

with the spirit of the MCF tiko club..............We are................ TIKO RANGERS!!!


#7

Posted 21 September 2015 - 02:50 PM

Lala81
  • Lala81
    2Fast2Furious
    The points of the user determines the rank. The higher the points, the higher the rank.
    Author Image
    The bar represents the rank and points of the user. The longer the bar, the higher the rank and points.
     
    Points:
    Points are accumulated from other users who Praise or Disliked this users' posts.
    124,290
      Joined: 26 May 2004
      Posts: 34,958
     

Not bashing when VW knows it's in serious crap.

The maximum fine is estimated @ 18 billion USD dollars.


I'm pretty sure they will try to settle it for a few billion dollars.


Tonydeath praised this

#8

Posted 21 September 2015 - 03:02 PM

Wt_know
  • Wt_know
    2Fast2Furious
    The points of the user determines the rank. The higher the points, the higher the rank.
    Author Image
    The bar represents the rank and points of the user. The longer the bar, the higher the rank and points.
     
    Points:
    Points are accumulated from other users who Praise or Disliked this users' posts.
    50,473
      Joined: 07 March 2005
      Posts: 24,211
     

what about Singapore ... can SUE?

smelly smelly 10 billions ... [sly]

VW is really ... no word to describe

VW has gone so deep to develop a sophisticated software to cheat ...

 

Not bashing when VW knows it's in serious crap.

The maximum fine is estimated @ 18 billion USD dollars.

I'm pretty sure they will try to settle it for a few billion dollars.

 


Edited by Wt_know, 21 September 2015 - 03:05 PM.


#9

Posted 21 September 2015 - 03:06 PM

Lala81
  • Lala81
    2Fast2Furious
    The points of the user determines the rank. The higher the points, the higher the rank.
    Author Image
    The bar represents the rank and points of the user. The longer the bar, the higher the rank and points.
     
    Points:
    Points are accumulated from other users who Praise or Disliked this users' posts.
    124,290
      Joined: 26 May 2004
      Posts: 34,958
     

what about Singapore ... can SUE?

smelly smelly 10 billions ... [sly]

VW is really ... no word to describe

VW has gone so deep and so dark to develop a very sophisticated software to cheat ...

even the usa authority said the software was so "deep" that it took them years to discover

 

 

 

I'm actually amazed by the USA people who actually found out abt the cheating.

 

They actually drove a jetta and a BMW over long distances and not just rely on the lab testing numbers.


btw the BMW passed the emissions test LOL.



#10

Posted 21 September 2015 - 06:58 PM

Rayoflight
  • Rayoflight
    6th Gear
    The points of the user determines the rank. The higher the points, the higher the rank.
    Author Image
    The bar represents the rank and points of the user. The longer the bar, the higher the rank and points.
     
    Points:
    Points are accumulated from other users who Praise or Disliked this users' posts.
    2,778
      Joined: 21 May 2006
      Posts: 1,918
     

http://www.bloomberg...emissions-cheat

 

 

Wah VW shareprice plunged!


1 Anonymous member praised this

#11

Posted 21 September 2015 - 07:07 PM

Wt_know
  • Wt_know
    2Fast2Furious
    The points of the user determines the rank. The higher the points, the higher the rank.
    Author Image
    The bar represents the rank and points of the user. The longer the bar, the higher the rank and points.
     
    Points:
    Points are accumulated from other users who Praise or Disliked this users' posts.
    50,473
      Joined: 07 March 2005
      Posts: 24,211
     
waiting for porsche price plunged 50% !!! [sly]

http://www.bloomberg...emissions-cheat
 
 
Wah VW shareprice plunged!


Volvobrick praised this

#12

Posted 21 September 2015 - 08:09 PM

Rayoflight
  • Rayoflight
    6th Gear
    The points of the user determines the rank. The higher the points, the higher the rank.
    Author Image
    The bar represents the rank and points of the user. The longer the bar, the higher the rank and points.
     
    Points:
    Points are accumulated from other users who Praise or Disliked this users' posts.
    2,778
      Joined: 21 May 2006
      Posts: 1,918
     

lol, actually fact that buyers dont really care about emissions right? who the f**k cares about carbon emissions when buying a car?


Privacy, F355, Holdenutessv and Tonydeath praised this

#13

Posted 21 September 2015 - 08:17 PM

Wt_know
  • Wt_know
    2Fast2Furious
    The points of the user determines the rank. The higher the points, the higher the rank.
    Author Image
    The bar represents the rank and points of the user. The longer the bar, the higher the rank and points.
     
    Points:
    Points are accumulated from other users who Praise or Disliked this users' posts.
    50,473
      Joined: 07 March 2005
      Posts: 24,211
     

lol ... just buy whatever car gives the best REBATE ...

but ... do the savings transferred to buyer or makan by dealer? [sly]

 

 

QQ 1.2L, anyone?

 

lol, actually fact that buyers dont really care about emissions right? who the f**k cares about carbon emissions when buying a car?

 


Edited by Wt_know, 21 September 2015 - 08:26 PM.


#14

Posted 21 September 2015 - 08:21 PM

Lala81
  • Lala81
    2Fast2Furious
    The points of the user determines the rank. The higher the points, the higher the rank.
    Author Image
    The bar represents the rank and points of the user. The longer the bar, the higher the rank and points.
     
    Points:
    Points are accumulated from other users who Praise or Disliked this users' posts.
    124,290
      Joined: 26 May 2004
      Posts: 34,958
     

lol ... just buy whatever car gives the best REBATE ...

but ... do the savings transferred to buyer or makan by dealer? [sly]

 

 

 

mlmlwml

The moving off issue. I mean that can really seriously injure u one day when u trying to do a right turn on a busy dual carriageway road.


Edited by Lala81, 21 September 2015 - 08:21 PM.


#15

Posted 21 September 2015 - 08:33 PM

Baal
  • Baal
    2Fast2Furious
    The points of the user determines the rank. The higher the points, the higher the rank.
    Author Image
    The bar represents the rank and points of the user. The longer the bar, the higher the rank and points.
     
    Points:
    Points are accumulated from other users who Praise or Disliked this users' posts.
    31,713
      Joined: 17 September 2013
      Posts: 6,617
     
Lalio say in Frankfurt, shares drop by 20% liao. Ya qq have that deep concern.
Nicfoo and 1 Anonymous member praised this
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.

Friedrich Nietzsche

#16

Posted 21 September 2015 - 08:36 PM

Baal
  • Baal
    2Fast2Furious
    The points of the user determines the rank. The higher the points, the higher the rank.
    Author Image
    The bar represents the rank and points of the user. The longer the bar, the higher the rank and points.
     
    Points:
    Points are accumulated from other users who Praise or Disliked this users' posts.
    31,713
      Joined: 17 September 2013
      Posts: 6,617
     

lol, actually fact that buyers dont really care about emissions right? who the f**k cares about carbon emissions when buying a car?


Inspection time by owner? Unless when stick the pipe in....will trigger sophisticated software. .
2BDriver praised this
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.

Friedrich Nietzsche

#17

Posted 21 September 2015 - 08:56 PM

Voodooman
  • Voodooman
    NOS-ed
    The points of the user determines the rank. The higher the points, the higher the rank.
    Author Image
    The bar represents the rank and points of the user. The longer the bar, the higher the rank and points.
     
    Points:
    Points are accumulated from other users who Praise or Disliked this users' posts.
    18,802
      Joined: 02 April 2007
      Posts: 6,154
     

what about Singapore ... can SUE?
smelly smelly 10 billions ... [sly]
VW is really ... no word to describe
VW has gone so deep to develop a sophisticated software to cheat ...
 
 


The way they handle the DSG issue is a telling sign, this just confirms it.
Blackyv, Count-Bracula, Nicfoo and Ivan_06 praised this

#18

Posted 21 September 2015 - 09:00 PM

Tenghock
  • Premium member
    Tenghock
    2nd Gear
    The points of the user determines the rank. The higher the points, the higher the rank.
    Author Image
    The bar represents the rank and points of the user. The longer the bar, the higher the rank and points.
     
    Points:
    Points are accumulated from other users who Praise or Disliked this users' posts.
    157
      Joined: 01 July 2014
      Posts: 44
     
Toyota doesn't need to fight anymore. #1 is in the bag liao!!
Blackyv and 1 Anonymous member praised this

#19

Posted 21 September 2015 - 09:10 PM

Watwheels
  • Premium member
    Watwheels
    2Fast2Furious
    The points of the user determines the rank. The higher the points, the higher the rank.
    Author Image
    The bar represents the rank and points of the user. The longer the bar, the higher the rank and points.
     
    Points:
    Points are accumulated from other users who Praise or Disliked this users' posts.
    53,209
      Joined: 21 May 2006
      Posts: 25,608
     

lol, actually fact that buyers dont really care about emissions right? who the f**k cares about carbon emissions when buying a car?

 

You are right. On 1 car it doesn't make much of a difference but looking at thousands and thousands of cars.....good example will be Beijing. Even our ah loong says who need to smoke in Beijing? Just open the windows. Someone has to care or else many health issues will arise.


 

I'm actually amazed by the USA people who actually found out abt the cheating.

 

They actually drove a jetta and a BMW over long distances and not just rely on the lab testing numbers.


btw the BMW passed the emissions test LOL.

 

Actually most OBDII device can measure the CO2 emitted, just have to install a CO2 sensor. You do not really require any sophisticated lab devices.


Too much to think about...

#20

Posted 21 September 2015 - 09:13 PM

F355
  • F355
    NOS-ed
    The points of the user determines the rank. The higher the points, the higher the rank.
    Author Image
    The bar represents the rank and points of the user. The longer the bar, the higher the rank and points.
     
    Points:
    Points are accumulated from other users who Praise or Disliked this users' posts.
    11,263
      Joined: 22 November 2002
      Posts: 1,120
     

VW share price plunge ; I not interested la . I hope OMV plunge , at least can buy their car cheaper . [:p]

 

Anyway , what they just did , are a lot like our own behavior . We speed, see speed cam slow down , the after cam speed again .  We do illegal mods , before inspection we change back to legal ones , then after inspection we put back illegal one again .  So they are just like us , except that for them its about carbon emissions .

 

Like many here have pointed out , who gives a f**k about carbon emmissions , when we cant even settle the haze problem after so many decades .


Tianmo and Baal praised this


Back to Conti Talk  ·  Car Brands Top Reply to this topic



Quick Reply



Tags: volkswagen, volkswagendiesel and 2 more...

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users