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Bid COE yourself - I tried it!


Boringchap
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Thanks for the video!! Gave insights that dealers are still willing to bid at least 46k next round. Self biddings next round please beat this if u wanna secure. I would rather wait. Meanwhile, grab blue chips to keep.

 

Thanks for your comment!

 

Well, what has surprised me a lot is the traction of this thread.  

 

I still am very keen to get my own COE and buy a new car with that COE.  Even if I ended up paying more, I can say that I did it on my own and I can blog about it.

 

This morning, I called Borneo to ask them whether they will sell me a Toyota Altis without COE.  The answer was yes and the sale lady gave me a price that didn't sound too exorbitant, however, she then went into a long but polite spiel about how it is much better for me to buy their package.  At least she wasn't rude. 

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I don't quite understand what is the coe rebate part..

 

Say altis at 100k, rebate at 40k coe.

 

So if u bring your own coe, the car price bm will sell to you is at 60k is it?

 

But if you secured your coe at 45k,won't u end up paying more at 60+45k?

That's right!

In 1996 I got my own cat A COE at $18,250 and in 2001 I got it at $101. TC n BM charged me list price - rebate.

In the open bidding era, I didn't bother to self bid. Booked with BM in 2009 and they absorbed the increased amount of COE. The better spec 2009 car with $4,460 COE was much cheaper than the lower spec 2001 car with $101 COE !!

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In the first place, no AD knows how big another AD's order book is though an educated guess might gather some results. In the second place, in a dog eat dog business world, u won't trust your fellow big AD to collaborate with u. Likely he'll screw u instead. Apologies for the words used.

 

There is a story about how a few pawnshop bosses gathered to rig a bidding process n all the heads had a gentleman's agreement to bid low to screw the seller. When the bids came out, all the prices were not what was agreed by the pawnshops bosses n it was each man for his own. So much for gentleman's agreement but I guess when it comes to their livelihood there is no such thing as being a gentleman! This is a true story which happens in the 60s.

 

So in short even if a few ADs managed to come around the table to collobarate the COE bidding, would PML trust C & C to keep their side of the bargain? Think I'd rather trust someone else!

 

you did not answer the questions lah... 

 

I do agree with you it is hard to get people to collaborate especially if there is incentive to break ranks. That is why the number of ADs needed to control the price is a crucial factor, dont you think?

 

Do you think 1 AD can control the price based on the above scenario? Or 2? or 3? or 10?

Edited by Wind30
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you did not answer the questions lah...

 

I do agree with you it is hard to get people to collaborate especially if there is incentive to break ranks. That is why the number of ADs needed to control the price is a crucial factor, dont you think?

 

Do you think 1 AD can control the price based on the above scenario? Or 2? or 3? or 10?

Sorry not only do I think it can't be collobarated but I also don't see the need to do so.

ADs job is to put cars on the road so I don't see what benefit they derive out of collobarating the COE price if it can be done at all. Maybe I'm simplistic but I can't quite get what u trying to put across.

 

There are many players so even if a few big ones manage to collobarate this means they just pushing the small ones out and 1) they don't stand to gain financially cos they still need to pay the COE price n 2) not necessary they get the market share of the small ones they push out cos it might go to the other big ADs so why even bother to try? Anyway stats show that there are more than 20 official ADs n countless PIs who got COEs last year, so much for collaboration!

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That's right!

In 1996 I got my own cat A COE at $18,250 and in 2001 I got it at $101. TC n BM charged me list price - rebate.

In the open bidding era, I didn't bother to self bid. Booked with BM in 2009 and they absorbed the increased amount of COE. The better spec 2009 car with $4,460 COE was much cheaper than the lower spec 2001 car with $101 COE !!

They are smart. Make the environment not ideal for people who self bid. So all will have to go through them.
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There is no need for dealers to work together, ultimately the one who pays COE is the consumer. Regardless of COE 10k or 100k, dealers will just sell their 10k cost price car at either 30k or 120k and make the same 10k margin.

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Sorry not only do I think it can't be collobarated but I also don't see the need to do so.

ADs job is to put cars on the road so I don't see what benefit they derive out of collobarating the COE price if it can be done at all. Maybe I'm simplistic but I can't quite get what u trying to put across.

 

There are many players so even if a few big ones manage to collobarate this means they just pushing the small ones out and 1) they don't stand to gain financially cos they still need to pay the COE price n 2) not necessary they get the market share of the small ones they push out cos it might go to the other big ADs so why even bother to try? Anyway stats show that there are more than 20 official ADs n countless PIs who got COEs last year, so much for collaboration!

 

 

ADs already have a number of orders with a certain rebate level on hand. There is OBVIOUS advantages for them if they can secure the highest number of COE at the lowest prices. I think everyone agree here IF ADs can collaborate and set the price, it is definitely advantageous for them. 

 

Besides a bit of fluctuations in COE prices also help to spur demand as seen recently. It makes people sitting on the fences go down to showrooms and allow the dealers to "SELL". 

 

ya, my scenario has plenty of independent bidders.

If you cannot figure out the maths, how can you say confidently it can't be collaborated???? What if the answer is 1 AD????

Edited by Wind30
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ADs already have a number of orders with a certain rebate level on hand. There is OBVIOUS advantages for them if they can secure the highest number of COE at the lowest prices. I think everyone agree here IF ADs can collaborate and set the price, it is definitely advantageous for them.

 

Besides a bit of fluctuations in COE prices also help to spur demand as seen recently. It makes people sitting on the fences go down to showrooms and allow the dealers to "SELL".

 

ya, my scenario has plenty of independent bidders.

If you cannot figure out the maths, how can you say confidently it can't be collaborated???? What if the answer is 1 AD????

It's not about maths. To me, it's about demand n supply. Many players after a limited no. of COEs. Each player out to gather as many COEs as they require. The maths of demand n supply n market forces ensure that its a fair game.

 

Anyway it's not for me to prove that it can't be collaborated. It's for conspiracy theorists like u to prove that it can. Till I see evidence to support this, I've faith in the system. As they say innocent until proven guilty!

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It's not about maths. To me, it's about demand n supply. Many players after a limited no. of COEs. Each player out to gather as many COEs as they require. The maths of demand n supply n market forces ensure that its a fair game.

 

Anyway it's not for me to prove that it can't be collaborated. It's for conspiracy theorists like u to prove that it can. Till I see evidence to support this, I've faith in the system. As they say innocent until proven guilty!

 

Its just maths, not conspiracy theorists....

 

In my scenario, all you need is the top 2 AD to collaborate and they can fix the price. This is just maths.

 

Of course you don't know how many bidders there will be every bid but I am just pointing out in our COE system where there is limited number of big bidders and the price is set by the lowest winning bid, you can control the COE price without even being the majority of the bidders....

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There is no need for dealers to work together, ultimately the one who pays COE is the consumer. Regardless of COE 10k or 100k, dealers will just sell their 10k cost price car at either 30k or 120k and make the same 10k margin.

Exactly! Dealers just want to put their cars on the road n earn their margins. The COE cost goes to the govt so they won't really bother whether it's lower or higher as all the dealers pay the same anyway n the cost is ultimately borned by the buyers so why the need to conspire but of course there will always be people who think otherwise unfortunately.

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Its just maths, not conspiracy theorists....

 

In my scenario, all you need is the top 2 AD to collaborate and they can fix the price. This is just maths.

 

Of course you don't know how many bidders there will be every bid but I am just pointing out in our COE system where there is limited number of big bidders and the price is set by the lowest winning bid, you can control the COE price without even being the majority of the bidders....

So Borneo n Kah (based on last year top 2 sellers) can do this n PML, Tan Chong, C&C, Trans Eurokars n the other ADs just sit back n let them fix it. And u call this maths!

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Seriously guys, please go down to your AD/PI and ask them what is the selling price of the car you want w/o COE.

 

Good question.  I asked around and I got this quote for a Honda Vezel from a PI.

Price - $53,000.  Loan of 50K for 5 years @ 2.78%.

 

How is this price?  

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Good question. I asked around and I got this quote for a Honda Vezel from a PI.

Price - $53,000. Loan of 50K for 5 years @ 2.78%.

 

How is this price?

Tough to beat. They were selling it at 95k with COE. Savings of only a few thousand at most. Car buying is one of those things where it's better to get it as a package, rather than try to DIY.

So Borneo n Kah (based on last year top 2 sellers) can do this n PML, Tan Chong, C&C, Trans Eurokars n the other ADs just sit back n let them fix it. And u call this maths!

There's nothing to fix since if they bid low to artificially lower COE, that also means all the other smaller ADs are filling up all their orders while Borneo and Kah end up with only a handful of COEs.
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Imagine 10 COEs up for grabs. Borneo putting in 7 bids, 2 other small dealers put in 2 and 1 bid.

 

If small dealers put 50k but Borneo think they wanna lowball and put 20k, end up only 3 COEs successful at 50k

 

If you assume Borneo submit 3 bids at 20k, 3bids at 30k, 1 bid at 40k, end up 7 successful at 30k, Borneo get all 4.

 

But if Borneo got the budget, might as well straight away bid 7 at 55k, and clear their entire order book. 7 bids successful at 55k, all other ADs eat grass for that 2 weeks.

 

Pardon for the long and confusing example. I don't see why any dealer has incentive to artificially lower COE.

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Neutral Newbie

actually this bidding process itself sucks, it just take 1 stupid AD to bid 50k, the rest die die must follow, or else wait long long to get coe.

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actually this bidding process itself sucks, it just take 1 stupid AD to bid 50k, the rest die die must follow, or else wait long long to get coe.

 

that's will only possible if 1 AD bid for more than 1,659 Cat A!!  [;)]

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Neutral Newbie

that's will only possible if 1 AD bid for more than 1,659 Cat A!!  [;)]

yes ofcos i am talkin about once quota exceeded, those kiasu bidder wil anyhow gancheong spider to bid higher.

can some one form a car buying group to commit not to buy car wif coe >20k and pressurize the AD to lower the bid if not, the deal is off?

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