Studied too much, stuck in an unstable dead-end job...how?

[Kb27]

I always thought a PhD holder should be working in the field of R&D, academia.

 

Maybe TS in the wrong field.

 

I'm sure gahmen jobs are aplenty like DSO, designing weapons to kill, etc.

[Tedlhw]

To the TS, unfortunately i agree with Enye here.

Basically you said you are happy to play second fiddle ONLY if the seniors got something to teach you.

IE, you feel your bosses are stupid...

 

This attitude comes out in your day to day interaction subtly..

I think you might need to look into your attitude and relationship management instead.

 

I have seen many of these new high qualification hotshots (MAS scholar, first Class in econs) coming in and then crashing out.

Why? Because of a lack of EQ.

A few months in a new job and you feel that you know everything?

Being on a team with senior staff is the best way to learn and project managers need not be experts in the field

Stay on the job to gain experience for at least 5 years then talk. I am in my industry for 11 years and still learning new stuff every day.

All that shiet about doing work and no credit given is present in any job unless you are willing to take initiative and network with the senior management to get noticed. But the trouble is well you are just too new....

if you want a career laid out for you, you should have gone to be a scholar since you can study so well

[Mockngbrd]

Song bo

[Soya]

This is MCF.

 

There's onli 1 way to measure success.

 

It's not about what PHD degree you have.

 

It's also not about how much you've given to society.

 

It's whether you can pay full cash.

 

Job done. 

 

[Ktglfc]

Understand there are quite a few old birds in MCF, will be grateful if anyone can shed some light on this situation. Facing some employment crisis...

 

A bit of my background, I graduated from a local university with an engineering degree a few years back. My GPA wasn't the best, but it was good enough for a first class honors and was in top 10% of the cohort. 

 

From there, I went on to work at a SME providing engineering services (basically, big companies outsource their engineering design needs to us), while doing a part time PhD at the same local university. Within 3.5 years, I ticked all the KPIs required for graduation and submitted my thesis. Reviews for my thesis were extremely positive and I was then able to graduate. This was by no means an easy feat because most full time students struggle to even produce a proper thesis in 4 years. I reckon that credit should also be given to the massive support I got from my professors at school and my ex-bosses at work.

 

Upon graduation, I moved on to another company. Salary isn't high, but I really wasn't expecting too much considering that I was "new" in their domain- Same type of work, but in a different domain. In layman terms, it will be equal to domestic helper cleaning home vs. hotel chambermaid cleaning hotel rooms. Things were fine in the beginning, mostly because I lacked the knowledge in the new industry and also their business processes. Aong the way, I learned and learned, and eventually got the hang of things after a few months.

 

Herein, the problem set in. Being a new guy, I was always assigned to some "senior" staffs under a couple of new area projects, playing the role of "assistant", which I am perfectly fine with. I do not mind being a follower, if the project leader is capable of teaching me something. However, in this cases, the project leaders knew nothing about the domain, nor the process. It was actually their first time running such projects too. What this effectively meant was that I was doing all the leg work, mind work and practically everything, while not a single credit was given. When things were not perfect, I had to take the blame because it was my work. When things were great, suddenly I was forgotten. At the same time, my company started looking at restructuring and I couldn't be sure when it will be my turn. Dejected, I started looking for opportunities outside.

 

Despite numerous attempts at dropping resume and cover letters, I just couldn't find another job. After 5 months of job seeking, I got interviews with three companies. Weirdly, all gave the same conclusion, " We like you a lot, but your area of expertise...". This is despite my attempts at making clear that I was willing to learn and am a quick learner.

 

I am wondering what exactly is my problem in preventing me from moving on or getting a chance for an interview. Is it the advance engineering degree? Or my current over-inflated job title? Or do I give off the vibe that I am expensive to hire?

 

What will you do if you were in my shoe?

 

*Disclaimer, I am really cheap to hire. My peers, who started PhD together with me and graduated 1 year later (Remember...I took 3.5 years...most full time were taking 4.5 to 5 years), are easily drawing 10-30% more than me even without work experience.

 

 

Just my few cents of opinions:

 

- the economy is generally not that good nowadays... many companies are tightening the belt, and not really recruiting... unless its iron rice bowl from govt. Would you consider govt job if it fits into what you studied?

 

- companies always have the idea not to engage PhD cos they are generally higher-paid and more academic. They prefer hands-on ppl with much lesser pay.

 

Anyway, it really depends on luck in finding a better job ... I have not much advice to you, just wish you better luck and hope you can get your dream job soon :)

[Philipkee]

Hi ts, I am a nurse and maybe my industry is a bit different from yours but well, from my experience, just wanna share some things with you that others have not shared in this thread so far.

 

1). Qualifications does not equate high salary. I do not know your pay but every employee thinks his pay is too low and every employer in private sector thinks his employee is paid too much. Benchmarking with your peers is not accurate as there may be other variables.

 

2). Focus on being good at what you do. It does not matter if you never get credit and always get the blame. If you are good at what you do, people will take notice, even if the people are your competitors. Eventually you can make your move, but first you must show you are good.

 

3). Your seniors may seem stupid or less competent but they are able to become a senior. There is a reason why. It might be they can play politics or maybe they are able to network. Or maybe they have connection. Learn from it and move on.

 

I am not saying you must play politics but from a junior point of view, learn how to overcome or defend yourself so that when you become senior, you can survive. Of cos networking skills are important and so on.

 

4). Lastly, don't quit unless it is affecting your health and life. It is better to be stressed with a regular pay check then to be stress free with no income.

 

If, of course, you already have a million dollars in your bank, feel free to disregard my advice BUT don't forget me in the event you feel like sharing your wealth. Sharing is caring after all.

[Unltd]

Understand there are quite a few old birds in MCF, will be grateful if anyone can shed some light on this situation. Facing some employment crisis...

 

A bit of my background, I graduated from a local university with an engineering degree a few years back. My GPA wasn't the best, but it was good enough for a first class honors and was in top 10% of the cohort.

 

From there, I went on to work at a SME providing engineering services (basically, big companies outsource their engineering design needs to us), while doing a part time PhD at the same local university. Within 3.5 years, I ticked all the KPIs required for graduation and submitted my thesis. Reviews for my thesis were extremely positive and I was then able to graduate. This was by no means an easy feat because most full time students struggle to even produce a proper thesis in 4 years. I reckon that credit should also be given to the massive support I got from my professors at school and my ex-bosses at work.

 

Upon graduation, I moved on to another company. Salary isn't high, but I really wasn't expecting too much considering that I was "new" in their domain- Same type of work, but in a different domain. In layman terms, it will be equal to domestic helper cleaning home vs. hotel chambermaid cleaning hotel rooms. Things were fine in the beginning, mostly because I lacked the knowledge in the new industry and also their business processes. Aong the way, I learned and learned, and eventually got the hang of things after a few months.

 

Herein, the problem set in. Being a new guy, I was always assigned to some "senior" staffs under a couple of new area projects, playing the role of "assistant", which I am perfectly fine with. I do not mind being a follower, if the project leader is capable of teaching me something. However, in this cases, the project leaders knew nothing about the domain, nor the process. It was actually their first time running such projects too. What this effectively meant was that I was doing all the leg work, mind work and practically everything, while not a single credit was given. When things were not perfect, I had to take the blame because it was my work. When things were great, suddenly I was forgotten. At the same time, my company started looking at restructuring and I couldn't be sure when it will be my turn. Dejected, I started looking for opportunities outside.

 

Despite numerous attempts at dropping resume and cover letters, I just couldn't find another job. After 5 months of job seeking, I got interviews with three companies. Weirdly, all gave the same conclusion, " We like you a lot, but your area of expertise...". This is despite my attempts at making clear that I was willing to learn and am a quick learner.

 

I am wondering what exactly is my problem in preventing me from moving on or getting a chance for an interview. Is it the advance engineering degree? Or my current over-inflated job title? Or do I give off the vibe that I am expensive to hire?

 

What will you do if you were in my shoe?

 

*Disclaimer, I am really cheap to hire. My peers, who started PhD together with me and graduated 1 year later (Remember...I took 3.5 years...most full time were taking 4.5 to 5 years), are easily drawing 10-30% more than me even without work experience.

Those senior guys who throw you in the deep end to do all the work... That's life, they are there to take the credit and have a junior do the work, in the process they help edit and correct your work so it's passable. Otherwise they are the seniors who reached a dead end.

 

You seem to have angst and keep emphasizing your Ph.D. And your intellect, in the real world that's not all that matters. Are you too smart for the rest (or so you think?), then that's really bad.... For you... without knowing you personally it's hard to say anything at all about your soft skills, like perhaps how many friends you have, I am talking about long term loyal friends... You may want to reflect on yourself instead, because your questions seem to point towards all the hard qualifications you have and you question your problems but state nothing about the much needed soft skills at work.

 

Good at hard KPIs and studies ain't everything bro... Soft skills are very important.

[Raychay]

"Do not go on a paper chase for qualifications or degrees, especially if they are not relevant". PM Lee say one.

[Piyopico]

In my opinion, in order of importance and relevance whether you make it in the private sector:

 

EQ

AQ

IQ

 

In the public sector:

 

IQ

EQ

AQ

[Yeshe]

Understand there are quite a few old birds in MCF, will be grateful if anyone can shed some light on this situation. Facing some employment crisis...

 

A bit of my background, I graduated from a local university with an engineering degree a few years back. My GPA wasn't the best, but it was good enough for a first class honors and was in top 10% of the cohort. 

 

From there, I went on to work at a SME providing engineering services (basically, big companies outsource their engineering design needs to us), while doing a part time PhD at the same local university. Within 3.5 years, I ticked all the KPIs required for graduation and submitted my thesis. Reviews for my thesis were extremely positive and I was then able to graduate. This was by no means an easy feat because most full time students struggle to even produce a proper thesis in 4 years. I reckon that credit should also be given to the massive support I got from my professors at school and my ex-bosses at work.

 

Upon graduation, I moved on to another company. Salary isn't high, but I really wasn't expecting too much considering that I was "new" in their domain- Same type of work, but in a different domain. In layman terms, it will be equal to domestic helper cleaning home vs. hotel chambermaid cleaning hotel rooms. Things were fine in the beginning, mostly because I lacked the knowledge in the new industry and also their business processes. Aong the way, I learned and learned, and eventually got the hang of things after a few months.

 

Herein, the problem set in. Being a new guy, I was always assigned to some "senior" staffs under a couple of new area projects, playing the role of "assistant", which I am perfectly fine with. I do not mind being a follower, if the project leader is capable of teaching me something. However, in this cases, the project leaders knew nothing about the domain, nor the process. It was actually their first time running such projects too. What this effectively meant was that I was doing all the leg work, mind work and practically everything, while not a single credit was given. When things were not perfect, I had to take the blame because it was my work. When things were great, suddenly I was forgotten. At the same time, my company started looking at restructuring and I couldn't be sure when it will be my turn. Dejected, I started looking for opportunities outside.

 

Despite numerous attempts at dropping resume and cover letters, I just couldn't find another job. After 5 months of job seeking, I got interviews with three companies. Weirdly, all gave the same conclusion, " We like you a lot, but your area of expertise...". This is despite my attempts at making clear that I was willing to learn and am a quick learner.

 

I am wondering what exactly is my problem in preventing me from moving on or getting a chance for an interview. Is it the advance engineering degree? Or my current over-inflated job title? Or do I give off the vibe that I am expensive to hire?

 

What will you do if you were in my shoe?

 

*Disclaimer, I am really cheap to hire. My peers, who started PhD together with me and graduated 1 year later (Remember...I took 3.5 years...most full time were taking 4.5 to 5 years), are easily drawing 10-30% more than me even without work experience.

 

go the academic or civil service route?

 

otherwise PHD really doesnt make much of a difference in private sector.

i got a ex-colleague, also PHD, draws about the same as me who is just a normal grad.

 

[Sosaria]

In my opinion, in order of importance and relevance whether you make it in the private sector:

 

EQ

AQ

IQ

 

In the public sector:

 

IQ

EQ

AQ

 

Not true that public sector values IQ leh... By the way, high qualification does not equate to IQ.

 

In the public sector we do see a lot of clueless people helming the operation.

[Piyopico]

Not true that public sector values IQ leh... By the way, high qualification does not equate to IQ.

 

In the public sector we do see a lot of clueless people helming the operation.

I qualify IQ as the ability to get paper grades. Ace the exams.

 

To do well in public sector you need IQ as in the the first class honours and the ivy leagues certs. With it you are already on a fast track. Another lego piece added to the existing lego architecture.

 

In a crisis, these are the last people you wanna depend on though.

[Jman888]

get a business degree to understand how top management or bosses work. it will also help in your career.

[A_korusawa]

Understand there are quite a few old birds in MCF, will be grateful if anyone can shed some light on this situation. Facing some employment crisis...

 . . . . .

*Disclaimer, I am really cheap to hire. My peers, who started PhD together with me and graduated 1 year later (Remember...I took 3.5 years...most full time were taking 4.5 to 5 years), are easily drawing 10-30% more than me even without work experience.

look around you carefully again!

up, down, left, right, front & back - besides your peers, your seniors, your bosses, your customers, vendors, contractors, suppliers etc....

if you are really good at what you are doing, "they" will know and can see!

get good referentials from them . . .  if the pond is too small for you; try swimming into the ocean IF YOU THINK YOU CAN!

go regional if you find local opportunties are too small for you, afterall the world is getting smaller and merciless . . . .

ask yourself about what markets, demands, remunerations and appreciations in your professions more besides in this country

 

if you have no dependencies, no emotional entanglements, then venture out (not just your fields or comfort zones . . . .

or get overeseas postings etc..... grow from there

cheers

[mersaylee]

Just remember this when the going is rough...

 

合理的要求是训练

不合理的要求是磨练

没人叫你做你却去做是"好练"

[Alheych]

What does "studied too much" mean?

 

One very senior civil servant once told me... "a university degree is not a university education"... he was speaking in the context of all the chapalang programmes that are sprouting today, but it is also instructive in terms of our intentions behind "studying".

 

As some have mentioned, if by having a PhD you want to get more recognition, only the government can do that now. And that's only for some agencies. Beyond your starting pay, your qualifications will never speak as loud as your performance.

 

I also think you won't give off a vibe that you are too expensive to hire, unless your own expectation is badly managed. In any case, that can be made known when you are talking about pay expectations.

[Sosaria]

If you seriously want to leave, then widen your job search. Apply for ANY job that need graduates. This approach will get you out from current situation faster than if you cherry-pick and apply to only one or two jobs and wait.

 

Land the interviews and offers, then you have the choice whether to accept or not. Also sharpens your interviewing skills.

 

Going from job no.2 to current one, also took long time for me, so it's not unusual especially if changing to a new role with little previous experience. Took me 2+ years of trying!

[Hydrocarbon]

A lot of MCF bros already shared about EQ / IQ.

 

I'll relate a short story about two of my friends.
 

Friend A was (at that time, diploma holder) looking to switch jobs, and one company (MNC) called him in for interview, and offered him a good pay. He choose another job, but he did recommend friend B to the first job, and since friend B had the benefit of the information that A gave, as well as the advantage of a degree, B should get the job right?

The company didn't even offer B the job or call him back. Better education, more intel on the job, as well as a direct recommendation from a potential hire and he didn't get it.

I know the both of them for a long time, and even though friend A is less well educated, he carries himself better, and he inspires confidence when he talks. A lot of times, even if you are more educated, or have more experience, but are unable to carry yourself well, the employer will not have confidence in you.

 

If you have confidence in your skills and knowledge / education, maybe you can take a look at your soft skills and see how you can improve them.