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#361

Posted 13 January 2017 - 09:34 AM

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the main BAD thing is the high loan required. The interests itself is around 16k. Actually, car price is very opaque and you have to work out a lot of numbers.

Well, they have to make some money.. 

But you can negotiate the terms..



#362

Posted 13 January 2017 - 10:47 AM

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Well, they have to make some money.. 

But you can negotiate the terms..

 

It  makes comparing deals very difficult as its tied to loan, omv, overtrade, so many numbers.... everything in one package.



#363

Posted 13 January 2017 - 10:49 AM

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All you have to work out is the nett price, and unless you are paying cash, you will need a loan, and you can work the total cost into your final price.

So is it really now a Merc instead of the City / Corolla?



#364

Posted 13 January 2017 - 11:05 AM

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Yes, wonder how they arrive at that figure and surprised they put it up so openly since they always seem to want to give the appearance that C180 pricing is very high and stable. [laugh] 

Actually it's not hard to figure out:

180xxx is their usual figure.

This is without OT, service credit, camera, welcome package etc all worked in.

They like to count these in and to come up with a net 12k discount if you add all of them in, is actually pretty standard.

If the CLA price posted by bro wind30 is around 170k, the C 180 can't be lower, especially since it's one of their most popular cars and sells itself.



#365

Posted 13 January 2017 - 11:14 AM

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Actually it's not hard to figure out:

180xxx is their usual figure.

This is without OT, service credit, camera, welcome package etc all worked in.

They like to count these in and to come up with a net 12k discount if you add all of them in, is actually pretty standard.

If the CLA price posted by bro wind30 is around 170k, the C 180 can't be lower, especially since it's one of their most popular cars and sells itself.

 

I did not go motorshow though, just showroom but the prices should be similar. 

 

The main thing is the loan I think. Cheap price but force you to take max loan which has 16k interest. As I said, just the advertised price is actually meaningless.

 

To really compare, you need to know the loan, overtrade, detailed Freebies.


All you have to work out is the nett price, and unless you are paying cash, you will need a loan, and you can work the total cost into your final price.

So is it really now a Merc instead of the City / Corolla?

 

Most probably. :)


Edited by Wind30, 13 January 2017 - 11:11 AM.


#366

Posted 13 January 2017 - 04:09 PM

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I believe it is 1 year for merc.  They offered you a guaranteed COE with rebate at 50k for cat A?  Are you sure, as I recall that C&C always set a very wide gap between latest COE price and rebate level - usually 10k or more!  I'm surprised they offer a guaranteed COE too!

 

This is what the SE says too that the rebate level is usually lower for Merc. But for the model CLA180SB I am looking at, it seems that some units come with high rebate level and some doesn't. 



#367

Posted 13 January 2017 - 04:40 PM

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the main BAD thing is the high loan required. The interests itself is around 16k. Actually, car price is very opaque and you have to work out a lot of numbers.

 

Is there a requirement to stay for the entire period of the loan?

I have friends who took loans for Subaru and BMW all paid off the loan with reduced interest after only 1 month, but you must give the bank 1 month notice that you are redeeming the loan.

 

SE will normally ask you to stay with the loan for at least 1 year, but I think the loan agreement with the bank does not have a minimum period or a heavy penalty for early redemption of loan.


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#368

Posted 13 January 2017 - 05:00 PM

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Is there a requirement to stay for the entire period of the loan?

I have friends who took loans for Subaru and BMW all paid off the loan with reduced interest after only 1 month, but you must give the bank 1 month notice that you are redeeming the loan.

 

SE will normally ask you to stay with the loan for at least 1 year, but I think the loan agreement with the bank does not have a minimum period or a heavy penalty for early redemption of loan.

 

You can do prepayment and that is what the SE advices but the penalty is still there. The rebate level is calculated differently and usually there is a clawback of 20% rebate and a 1% penalty on balance.

 

Example, if you take a 6 year loan at 2.68% interest rate for 99k loan, the total interest paid is around 16k. The effective interest rate is a whopping 5%. If you prepay after 1 year, the total interest or extra you paid will be around 8k. Better than 16k but hardly insignificant. 

 

The savings is small because of the penalty which makes the case for prepayment a bit grey. The remaining 5year loan has an effective interest rate of 3.45% (calculated based on the savings) which is on the high side but lower than 5%.

 

I made a spreadsheet for the calculation. If you pay off everything in one month, the interest you will pay is $4.6k which is probably less than the freebies they are offering. That is why most people take the loan. I am not sure if mercedes allow prepayment after one month.


Edited by Wind30, 13 January 2017 - 05:13 PM.


#369

Posted 13 January 2017 - 06:02 PM

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I found that a 3 year loan works for me.
And I get all their freebies. Ymmv.
As for rebates, if they are trying to push certain colors you may get a better deal ..

#370

Posted 13 January 2017 - 06:14 PM

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This is what the SE says too that the rebate level is usually lower for Merc. But for the model CLA180SB I am looking at, it seems that some units come with high rebate level and some doesn't. 

 

I remember you were looking at a "reliable and cheap to maintain car for my family, two adults two kids. Don't care how it looks or how the drive is", so this a significant upgrade. I just kapo to know the reasons behind the sudden change of plan/criteria. Don't think CLA is super fuel efficient as well.  No malice intended, just trying to validate some observations. 


Edited by Voodooman, 13 January 2017 - 06:14 PM.


#371

Posted 13 January 2017 - 07:01 PM

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Good deal  or not is very relative

CLA always pegged 10-15k below C180

When they need to clear stocks/colors, the internal discounts (service/overtrade) will be more

 

For advertised price, the lowest C180 has gone down (since 2014 launch of 196k) to was around 170k

and CLA 155-160k. But when advertised price is low, the freebies will be less

 

So historically, in past 2 years or so, a C180 nett of 165 to 170 will be a good deal and CLA180 around 155 to 160k 

 

overtrade of course is a different kettle of fish

 

did not go motorshow but the showroom has this offer

 

CLA180, List price 170888

 

with 60%loan 6 years plus in house insurance you get

 

$5k discount

$5k service credit

$1.6k insurance rebate ($800 off car, $400 off 1st 2nd year)

Solar film, collect return 12 trips, 3D floormat, head cushion.

Essential plus package

Guaranteed COE bid. rebate 50k

 

overtrade starts at 10k without bargaining.

 

I did not follow the previous pricing. Is this a good deal? 

 


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#372

Posted 13 January 2017 - 07:17 PM

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I found that a 3 year loan works for me.
And I get all their freebies. Ymmv.
As for rebates, if they are trying to push certain colors you may get a better deal ..

 

mind saying when you bought your car? what model? and the overtrade you got? Usually they are more willing to give you discount if you take a bigger loan. 

 

Everything is tied together so it makes the selling price of a car very opaque...

 

It not like I go and buy a computer. 3k is 3k. 



#373

Posted 13 January 2017 - 07:25 PM

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I remember you were looking at a "reliable and cheap to maintain car for my family, two adults two kids. Don't care how it looks or how the drive is", so this a significant upgrade. I just kapo to know the reasons behind the sudden change of plan/criteria. Don't think CLA is super fuel efficient as well.  No malice intended, just trying to validate some observations. 

 

CLA180 is pretty decent in fuel economy right? When I started out looking for a car, it was because my old car was giving me problems, engine oil leak. So I thought it is about time to change. First thing to mind is reliability....

 

Then you see more cars and some cars look really nice :) 

 

It is really two choices, go cheap and get the Altis or go higher and buy a car that is exciting for me. I did not look at cars like Teana, Camry, etc because my first car was a cefiro so been there drove that. 

 

what you trying to validate huh? so chim...


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#374

Posted 13 January 2017 - 07:35 PM

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Good deal  or not is very relative

CLA always pegged 10-15k below C180

When they need to clear stocks/colors, the internal discounts (service/overtrade) will be more

 

For advertised price, the lowest C180 has gone down (since 2014 launch of 196k) to was around 170k

and CLA 155-160k. But when advertised price is low, the freebies will be less

 

So historically, in past 2 years or so, a C180 nett of 165 to 170 will be a good deal and CLA180 around 155 to 160k 

 

overtrade of course is a different kettle of fish

 

CLA180 155-160k excluding overtrade? how much overtrade can you get during that time? 

 

The only detailed info point I had was from Admiralty, but I don't know how much loan he took, what was the list price then, so it is still an incomplete picture. So I gave up trying to compare... that is a very clever way of selling actually

 

Not really...

I bought a cla sb200 on 7dec, besides scrap-value calculated till Mar'17 (waiting time for new ride), OT$10k was pushed to OT14.2k.

So, old ride (9+yrs) scrap (Mar'17) is $17.8k + $14.2OT, 32k total took-in price.

 

The others were 3yrs or 100k service credits of $5k, caressential pkg ($3+k), $500 welcome pack or JS F&B car cam, 1yr RT, extra diamond grile in silver


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#375

Posted 13 January 2017 - 08:22 PM

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Including  overtrade, and thats when it can become tricky (depends on quoted used car price), the best is when car is near scrap

 

For C series, C & C service vouchers ranges from 3 to 6k, overtrade, 4 to 6k, the other perks (cameras, paint protection, shampoo and many small non cash items etc etc are fairly standard)

 

Additional loan discounts or "real" cash discounts depends on period

 

The advertised price for C & C C series has the best correlation with coe price unlike some other brands, that is if coe drops 10k, the price will drop about 10k and vice versa

 

A nett price for c180 below 165k and CLA 155k would be considered a very good price in the past 2-3 years.

 

CLA180 155-160k excluding overtrade? how much overtrade can you get during that time? 

 

The only detailed info point I had was from Admiralty, but I don't know how much loan he took, what was the list price then, so it is still an incomplete picture. So I gave up trying to compare... that is a very clever way of selling actually

 

Not really...

I bought a cla sb200 on 7dec, besides scrap-value calculated till Mar'17 (waiting time for new ride), OT$10k was pushed to OT14.2k.

So, old ride (9+yrs) scrap (Mar'17) is $17.8k + $14.2OT, 32k total took-in price.

 

The others were 3yrs or 100k service credits of $5k, caressential pkg ($3+k), $500 welcome pack or JS F&B car cam, 1yr RT, extra diamond grile in silver

 


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#376

Posted 13 January 2017 - 09:30 PM

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I am trying to calculate the penalty for a two loan scenario.

 

Loan A at 100k 6 years 2.68%

Loan B at 70k 3 years 2.68%

 

On first calculation, the Loan B saves $10k in interest paid. But one need to calculate the lost opportunity cost for putting in your money early in. I calculated that Loan A will give one an average of $29k more money over 6 years. If I used a return of 2.5% on those money (no compunding, too complicated maths) it will give 4.35k. To the delta is actually $5.6k, roughly.

 

The numbers get even murkier if you include the option to do prepayment. If Loan A prepay after one year, I think it narrows it down to around $3.5k

 


Edited by Wind30, 13 January 2017 - 09:50 PM.


#377

Posted 13 January 2017 - 09:54 PM

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CLA180 is pretty decent in fuel economy right? When I started out looking for a car, it was because my old car was giving me problems, engine oil leak. So I thought it is about time to change. First thing to mind is reliability....

Then you see more cars and some cars look really nice :)

It is really two choices, go cheap and get the Altis or go higher and buy a car that is exciting for me. I did not look at cars like Teana, Camry, etc because my first car was a cefiro so been there drove that.

what you trying to validate huh? so chim...

You probably will see about 10-11km/l for a normal drive. The engine aren't that fuel efficient. 122 horses tugging a semi heavy shell.

I'm also curious why the sudden swing to a merc? IMHO I would come up with the the extra 15k for the c180. The rwd platform are the hallmarks of a German car.

Would take the a180 if I wanted to save money and just buying the badge or just go c180.

Edited by Mkl22, 13 January 2017 - 09:55 PM.


#378

Posted 13 January 2017 - 10:05 PM

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You probably will see about 10-11km/l for a normal drive. The engine aren't that fuel efficient. 122 horses tugging a semi heavy shell.

I'm also curious why the sudden swing to a merc? IMHO I would come up with the the extra 15k for the c180. The rwd platform are the hallmarks of a German car.

Would take the a180 if I wanted to save money and just buying the badge or just go c180.

That's why I suspected bro wind has the financial capability all along and he is reaching the YOLO mid-life stage.. 

And yes, if it's only 15k, the C180 is a better bet.

Bigger, faster and a better car in general.

If the 168k net price is true, that's not too bad a deal..

Of course you have to come up with the loan matrix that gives you the minimum outlay... but as with all dealers, don't squeeze them dry, the result may be a delay in COE or worse, you become one of the rare folks who doesn't get it.. 

 

As for South African vs Hungarian... tough call on the that one, but the basic build and chassis of the C Class is in a, well, different class..


mind saying when you bought your car? what model? and the overtrade you got? Usually they are more willing to give you discount if you take a bigger loan. 

 

Everything is tied together so it makes the selling price of a car very opaque...

 

It not like I go and buy a computer. 3k is 3k. 

Replied you..

How come you don't want to tell us the purpose of the car??

Is it for you, your family, and what car type are you looking for.. 

Looking at your car choice thread, it's pretty much a EDMW thread now ... so I hope you are truly keen on the Merc considering that people are genuinely trying to chip in to help you with your choice here... 

 

Good luck and keep your choices simple and less random, cheers.



#379

Posted 13 January 2017 - 10:44 PM

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It's tied to the freebies right? Did you know how much freebies he got with a smaller loan?

 

I am quite sure he got all the same freebies, but if I recall his negotiating power was strong as he bought 2 mercs! [laugh]  I understand you need to take a loan to get the freebies but amount of freebies usually not linked to loan amount and tenure. 



#380

Posted 13 January 2017 - 11:12 PM

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CLA180 is pretty decent in fuel economy right? When I started out looking for a car, it was because my old car was giving me problems, engine oil leak. So I thought it is about time to change. First thing to mind is reliability....

 

Then you see more cars and some cars look really nice :) 

 

It is really two choices, go cheap and get the Altis or go higher and buy a car that is exciting for me. I did not look at cars like Teana, Camry, etc because my first car was a cefiro so been there drove that. 

 

what you trying to validate huh? so chim...

 

Totally know what you mean.  I was considering a Vezel actually! LOL. But fell in love with my neighbour's CLA180 when I first saw it. Very sporty look. But couldn't deal with the low rear passenger headroom.  Although the C180 doesn't look as sporty, the drive felt more comfortable at least for me.

 

You may want to talk to your SE about the CLA200 or CLA200SB too. Last December, merc were pushing the CLA200 and my SE insisted I test drive it. He was right, the power between the CLA200 and CLA180 is night and day. But the best part is that the price between the two were quite similar then - they were giving an extra 10k OT on the 200!  As therock says, it depends on what they are pushing from time to time!  If you are keen on CLA, no harm checking. More bang for the buck!  You may be surprised especially since gap between Cat A and B is narrow now.

 

I recall CLA180 is Cat A (<1.6l and 121hp) while CLA200 is Cat B, (<1.6L and 154hp).


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