New Kia Niro Hybrid

[Theoldjaffa]

Since ioniq and niro same batt same tech, pray comfrot buy ioniq as taxi lo

Your wish is granted

 

[Aukang]

If we take guidance from UK, the Hyundai Ioniq starts at £19k+ while the Kia Niro starts at £21k+.

 

Implies Niro should be priced around $120k if Ioniq is $111k, if pricing differential is similar.

That's a very wrong assumption as the specs for both in UK would definitely be different from the ones here.

 

Compare apple to apple also must compare exact same variety...

[fungyee77]

That's a very wrong assumption as the specs for both in UK would definitely be different from the ones here.

 

Compare apple to apple also must compare exact same variety...

 

haha, I was pretty far off on this one eh ?

 

To be frank, I think there were a couple of factors here, specs was one factor (top spec Ioniq vs mid spec Niro) but the main factor was dealer margin.  BM is selling Prius for a ridiculous 30-35% margin while C&C/KM is selling Niro/Ioniq at 10-15%. 

 

Stripping out dealer margin inconsistencies, the top spec Ioniq vs mid spec Niro (Niro 2) is about the same as in UK.

 

At the end of the day, have to recognize that its an estimate only, and may be off due to :-

- UK Taxation effects (limited impact here because Niro, Prius and Ioniq are all imported from outside EU)

- Emissions related taxation effects (ie CEVs for Singapore, but limited impact because all 3 are same at SGD30k)  

- Specs (Note that we did not know at the onset which versions KM/C&C were going to bring in)

- Dealer margin 

[Theoldjaffa]

I kinda like the Niro's look and feel, but I prefer the Ioniq's interior, especially the flat bottomed steering wheel.

 

I thought hybrid cars are supposed to be more powerful and faster compared to their NA counterparts, so was kind of disappointed that it's not sub 10s for acceleration. It's already very good now, having sub 10 will make it great

Edited January 31, 2017 by Theoldjaffa

[teomingern]

I kinda like the Niro's look and feel, but I prefer the Ioniq's interior, especially the flat bottomed steering wheel.

 

I thought hybrid cars are supposed to be more powerful and faster compared to their NA counterparts, so was kind of disappointed that it's not sub 10s for acceleration. It's already very good now, having sub 10 will make it great

You need a bigger engine for sub 10 second runs... but that's not really fuel saving... which is the whole point of the hybrid in this class...

[Theoldjaffa]

You need a bigger engine for sub 10 second runs... but that's not really fuel saving... which is the whole point of the hybrid in this class...

 

maybe i should clarify.. my thoughts come from the impression that hybrids use electric power when moving off or during low speeds / start-stop driving. this is where the amount of fuel is consumed the most and this is why hybrids offer good average FC even in city driving.

 

only when it reaches higher speeds and/or cruising, then it switches to petrol mode.

 

that means, from standstill, it runs on electric power. and torque from electricity is high and response is almost instantaneous. which means moving off from standstill should be fast, which means from 0-100 should be faster than their petrol counterparts.

 

i'm not deviating from the purpose of hybrids and i appreciate it's efficiency. just that i'm puzzled why the acceleration is about the same as a 1.6 petrol only, say.. Elantra when the low end torque from the battery is supposed to respond and propel the car forward faster.

[teomingern]

maybe i should clarify.. my thoughts come from the impression that hybrids use electric power when moving off or during low speeds / start-stop driving. this is where the amount of fuel is consumed the most and this is why hybrids offer good average FC even in city driving.

 

only when it reaches higher speeds and/or cruising, then it switches to petrol mode.

 

that means, from standstill, it runs on electric power. and torque from electricity is high and response is almost instantaneous. which means moving off from standstill should be fast, which means from 0-100 should be faster than their petrol counterparts.

 

i'm not deviating from the purpose of hybrids and i appreciate it's efficiency. just that i'm puzzled why the acceleration is about the same as a 1.6 petrol only, say.. Elantra when the low end torque from the battery is supposed to respond and propel the car forward faster.

 

Less powerful motor I guess? To extend battery life...

[mrhan1982]

maybe i should clarify.. my thoughts come from the impression that hybrids use electric power when moving off or during low speeds / start-stop driving. this is where the amount of fuel is consumed the most and this is why hybrids offer good average FC even in city driving.

 

only when it reaches higher speeds and/or cruising, then it switches to petrol mode.

 

that means, from standstill, it runs on electric power. and torque from electricity is high and response is almost instantaneous. which means moving off from standstill should be fast, which means from 0-100 should be faster than their petrol counterparts.

 

i'm not deviating from the purpose of hybrids and i appreciate it's efficiency. just that i'm puzzled why the acceleration is about the same as a 1.6 petrol only, say.. Elantra when the low end torque from the battery is supposed to respond and propel the car forward faster.

I understand that such hybrid cars has good initial torque. In the application where I frequently need to carry 3 adults (big size), 2 kids, and a 3/4 boot full of stuff, is it more efficient and easy to drive compared to a twin scroll 2L turbo (eg fxt)?

 

My experience with 2L diesel with my application is that the initial pull is good and easy for the heavy car to move on but it comes with a lot of noise and some vibrations. The Diesel engine also run out of puff quickly probably due to the narrow band of available peak torque. I wonder if a Prius, Niro, etc. can do the job just as well as a 2L petrol turbo? I haven check out the Niro, but the built of the Prius seems quite filmsy and cheap. Door feels light. Doesn't seems to be a very sturdy car during driving. Safety wise feels questionable.

 

Long term wise, can such hybrid car maintain consistent performance? Since the battery might deteriorate? Or the switching between electric engine and petrol engine might have problems? Currently my 2L petrol turbo seems problem free and maintenance wise is affordable.

Edited January 31, 2017 by mrhan1982

[Theoldjaffa]

I understand that such hybrid cars has good initial torque. In the application where I frequently need to carry 3 adults (big size), 2 kids, and a 3/4 boot full of stuff, is it more efficient and easy to drive compared to a twin scroll 2L turbo (eg fxt)?

 

My experience with 2L diesel with my application is that the initial pull is good and easy for the heavy car to move on but it comes with a lot of noise and some vibrations. The Diesel engine also run out of puff quickly probably due to the narrow band of available peak torque. I wonder if a Prius, Niro, etc. can do the job just as well as a 2L petrol turbo? I haven check out the Niro, but the built of the Prius seems quite filmsy and cheap. Door feels light. Doesn't seems to be a very sturdy car during driving. Safety wise feels questionable.

 

Long term wise, can such hybrid car maintain consistent performance? Since the battery might deteriorate? Or the switching between electric engine and petrol engine might have problems? Currently my 2L petrol turbo seems problem free and maintenance wise is affordable.

 

actually i don't know also. but i'd think that response from standstill, hybrid will trump petrol, even turbo.

 

maybe for the first half to full second, the hybrid will be ahead. but once boosted, the turbo will overtake.

 

your FXT is much powerful and more spacious. it will fit your needs.

 

agree that Prius and cheap and flimsy. Niro and Ioniq is much better in the interior. Ventilated seats leh! :)

 

I am also keen to explore using hybrids as my next car. if the taxi companies are using it, i guess they must have done their feasibility and reliability studies.

 

imagine, with good power AND good FC. that's like having your cake and eating it too!

 

now.... still drooling at the GS Hybrid     

[mrhan1982]

actually i don't know also. but i'd think that response from standstill, hybrid will trump petrol, even turbo.

 

maybe for the first half to full second, the hybrid will be ahead. but once boosted, the turbo will overtake.

 

your FXT is much powerful and more spacious. it will fit your needs.

 

agree that Prius and cheap and flimsy. Niro and Ioniq is much better in the interior. Ventilated seats leh! :)

 

I am also keen to explore using hybrids as my next car. if the taxi companies are using it, i guess they must have done their feasibility and reliability studies.

 

imagine, with good power AND good FC. that's like having your cake and eating it too!

 

now.... still drooling at the GS Hybrid

Ya as the mileage piles up due to family needs, it's makes logical sense to consider fc as well. If can another car can get the same job done with 20-25km/L fc compared to my current 11+ km/L fc, I mean why not?

 

I've seen hybrid shuttle and Prius moving off very quickly compared to my fxt, but they tend to slow down soon after that. I dunno whether if the Drivers were trying to stay in electric mode to save petrol or the car has its limitations? It's quite an exciting technology actually. Hopefully, it will mature to the level where it can fit my currently needs perfectly.

 

For now, hard to find something to match my fxt. Just thinking about my next car too. Haa but that will be the not so near future...

Lexus too out of reach for me... I would also like to own one rather than a BMW or merc.

[Theoldjaffa]

Ya as the mileage piles up due to family needs, it's makes logical sense to consider fc as well. If can another car can get the same job done with 20-25km/L fc compared to my current 11+ km/L fc, I mean why not?

 

I've seen hybrid shuttle and Prius moving off very quickly compared to my fxt, but they tend to slow down soon after that. I dunno whether if the Drivers were trying to stay in electric mode to save petrol or the car has its limitations? It's quite an exciting technology actually. Hopefully, it will mature to the level where it can fit my currently needs perfectly.

 

For now, hard to find something to match my fxt. Just thinking about my next car too. Haa but that will be the not so near future...

Lexus too out of reach for me... I would also like to own one rather than a BMW or merc.

When u ferry full loads a lot of times, I think a hybrid that can give 15km/l is considered very good liao.

 

The hybrid moving off quickly tallies with my guess that electric mode offers instant torque so they are ahead in the first half to full second.

 

11km/l is very good liao on a FXT.

[mrhan1982]

When u ferry full loads a lot of times, I think a hybrid that can give 15km/l is considered very good liao.

 

The hybrid moving off quickly tallies with my guess that electric mode offers instant torque so they are ahead in the first half to full second.

 

11km/l is very good liao on a FXT.

If a hybrid car of similar cabin and boot capacity as my fxt can only give 15km/L with my usage, then it's not worth it Liao. I took the previous gen of Prius taxi before once and recall the Uncle complaining he spends quite a lot paying for petrol as the car gets older.

 

I also see a lot of new Prius hogging the roads. I suspect they spend more time looking at their cluster display to make sure that they are staying in the eco band just to achieve 20km/L fc than driving normally according to speeds limits and traffic conditions...

[AtoB]

I was considering between Niro and Prius but is tentatively leaning towards Prius at the moment.

Main reason is because proven reliability of Toyota Prius when it comes to hybrid (20 years experience vs first hybrid from Kia).

Also, I thought its probably cheaper and easier to service Prius since it's more common (probably a con to other people).

Price wise, its currently 115k for Niro (AD) vs 105k for Prius (PI). I can't afford Prius from AD.

Understand all the negative connotation with PI but I believe reliable PI exist. Kia then increase their Niro price by another 5k after car show is not helping.

 

Love to hear what others think and what about Niro is worth 10k more than a Prius other than the fact it's from AD.

[teomingern]

I was considering between Niro and Prius but is tentatively leaning towards Prius at the moment.

Main reason is because proven reliability of Toyota Prius when it comes to hybrid (20 years experience vs first hybrid from Kia).

Also, I thought its probably cheaper and easier to service Prius since it's more common (probably a con to other people).

Price wise, its currently 115k for Niro (AD) vs 105k for Prius (PI). I can't afford Prius from AD.

Understand all the negative connotation with PI but I believe reliable PI exist. Kia then increase their Niro price by another 5k after car show is not helping.

 

Love to hear what others think and what about Niro is worth 10k more than a Prius other than the fact it's from AD.

 

Sorry to burst your bubble... Kia and Hyundai have had hybrids in the US for a very long time already... their compact sedan and executive sedan sized vehicles all have hybrid options... it's just not brought into Singapore...

 

My suggestion is not to get the Prius from a parallel importer... once the battery gives problem, you'll be having lots of problem getting it replaced under warranty. It's quite common for the battery in the Toyota hybrids to fail before the 10-year mark. I know of someone driving a Lexus LS600h who had to replace the battery in the 5th year. And it's just a one-time replacement warranty. And the reason for the battery wearing out so easily is cos it's a nickel-metal hydride battery... these develop memory effects after some time and the battery cannot hold charge anymore...

 

The Niro uses a lithum polymer battery (same type as your mobile phone), and it does not suffer from memory effects like the nickel-metal hydride batteries. But heat affects lithium polymer batteries more significantly... 

 

For something so costly to replace, I think getting from AD is definitely a wiser option.

 

Also for the difference is pricing, note that the parallel importer's Prius is likely to be quite stripped down compared to the specs of the Niro... you can't run away from the cost of equipment, especially the safety equipment which are expensive... check the estimated OMVs, it will tell you about the specs list difference straightaway...

 

Finally parallel importers can be quite iffy... too many bad examples online... caveat emptor... $10K sounds like a lot... but when you get a bad seller... $10K is peanuts...

[Theoldjaffa]

I was considering between Niro and Prius but is tentatively leaning towards Prius at the moment.

Main reason is because proven reliability of Toyota Prius when it comes to hybrid (20 years experience vs first hybrid from Kia).

Also, I thought its probably cheaper and easier to service Prius since it's more common (probably a con to other people).

Price wise, its currently 115k for Niro (AD) vs 105k for Prius (PI). I can't afford Prius from AD.

Understand all the negative connotation with PI but I believe reliable PI exist. Kia then increase their Niro price by another 5k after car show is not helping.

 

Love to hear what others think and what about Niro is worth 10k more than a Prius other than the fact it's from AD.

My belief is if a car is available at both AD and PI, buy from AD. It's the assurance you get.

 

Buy from PI only if the car is so good and compelling, like how the Vezel used to be.

 

The PI can be reliable in sales, but it's aftersales that counts. Their workshops are usually 3rd party, who may not have the diagnostics or know-how in hybrid systems. You don't know if they even send their mechanics for training.

 

Evaluate your choices carefully. Don't just look at price at current situation.

[teomingern]

My belief is if a car is available at both AD and PI, buy from AD. It's the assurance you get.

 

Buy from PI only if the car is so good and compelling, like how the Vezel used to be.

 

The PI can be reliable in sales, but it's aftersales that counts. Their workshops are usually 3rd party, who may not have the diagnostics or know-how in hybrid systems. You don't know if they even send their mechanics for training.

 

Evaluate your choices carefully. Don't just look at price at current situation.

 

I'm not sure that the Vezel is that good and compelling... especially going by the number of drivers who complain about the noise level after a year of driving the car as well as the lack of power.

[Tohto]

I'm not sure that the Vezel is that good and compelling... especially going by the number of drivers who complain about the noise level after a year of driving the car as well as the lack of power.

 

B & B Honda car are never good in noise insulation. 

[Theoldjaffa]

I'm not sure that the Vezel is that good and compelling... especially going by the number of drivers who complain about the noise level after a year of driving the car as well as the lack of power.

That's why I said "how it used to be" ma