Harrier 2017

[therock]

I am sure plenty of folks drive faster than the speed limit.. admitting to it.. ah that's different sir..

[kdash]

Drive in Malaysia?

MY also got speed limit ma.

[Aloe111]

The limiting factor here is that the car is speed limited to 180 like most jdm. Not the road speed or bolla size limit.

[richard_crl032]

The limiting factor here is that the car is speed limited to 180 like most jdm. Not the road speed or bolla size limit.

 

Hi Bros,

 

Been a while and hope this review by champion bro Wahtk will be a good read:

 

http://www.mycarforum.com/topic/2698911-2015-forester-20/?p=6476958

 

Cheers,

 

Richard

[TzeYangSeah]

Haha, I meant did anyone remove the 180 speed limiter in order to go faster?? Like driving in Malaysia??

[Freeder]

Thanks for all the info. You are very informative.

Pls update us here of any new developments..

This will help Bros here facing the same problem..

Since you ask so much n Bros here helped you...

So it’s only fair that you should provide a FR..

Pls help to contribute to keep the forum alive n kicking,.

[richard_crl032]

Hi Bros,

 

Been a while and hope this review by champion bro Wahtk will be a good read:

 

http://www.mycarforum.com/topic/2698911-2015-forester-20/?p=6476958

 

Cheers,

 

Richard

 

Hi bros,

 

My take on this excellent review and yes, bro andrew's comment on the muted steering of the harrier turbo was spot on:

 

Looks

Totally subjective, but my take, the Harrier looks a little more modern, a little sleeker with more flowing lines, however with its boxier lines, the Forester has a more unique silhouette; you chose your favourite.

Richard: Harrier turbo (X1) .. no contest. To most and me, fxt is a rugged SUV for US farms and not city dwellers. Shaved without the roof rack, both fxt and fna look much betta but a 700 mod.

 

Internal

In terms of fit and finish, the Harrier is better, it feels better bolted together with more soft touch plastics (leathers?), whereas the Forester has more hard plastics; generally, the Harrier just feels and looks a little more up-market.

Richard: Harrier turbo (X2). However, black roof lining not for all and certainly not me. Retrofitted with black pillar a, b, c and d, the foresters become cosier place but yet bright due to big windows.

 

Comfort wise, for me the Harrier has better seats. It’s more comfortable, has a greater level of adjustability, and if you get the higher trim, it comes with ventilated seats. (But that is for my generous butt, may be different for different body types.)

Richard: Harrier turbo .. no contest unless you mod with wrx sti limited seats .. not cheap and up to 3k mod. Can add aftermkt lumbar support.

 

It has rear air-con vents.

Richard: Harrier turbo (X3). 800 mod for forester and still not comparable.

 

Cruise control in the Harrier is of the radar or adaptive variant, while the Forester has the ordinary variety.

Richard: Harrier turbo (X4) .. period.

 

However, the Harrier’s control is on a separate stalk that sticks down at the 4 o’clock position. What this means is if you haven’t used the cruise control before, you probably won’t be able to use it until the next time you are stationary, look at it and remember what directions to push or pull the stalk. The Forester like most other cars have the controls on the steering wheel, and is much easier to have a quick glance at and use, for first time and occasional users. Once you know how it works, using either is as easy.

Richard: Forester (X1) .. finally ..lol !

 

In the Harrier, the seats will move back and the steering wheel moves in when your turn off the engine, to give you more room to get out, and when you get in and start the engine, the seat and steering wheel move back to the last position; nice

Richard: Harrier turbo (X5).. nice !

 

The Forester has larger windows, so the cabin feels brighter, and all-round visibility is better, hardly any blind spots. 

Richard: Forester (X2) .. safe safe with 1st class all round visibility.

 

Also because of the boxier design, it feels more spacious (did not measure the internal dimensions, so the greater sense of space may only be an illusion)

Richard: Forester (X3). 

 

Both cars have different drive options, I, S and S# in the Forester and Eco, Normal and Sport for the Harrier. In the Forester, choosing your mode is via physical buttons on the steering wheel which you can activate without taking your eyes off the road for too long, or even at all once you remember where they are. However, in the Harrier, the buttons (non-physical – areas on a touch screen) are together with the aircon and stereo controls, which means always having to take your eyes off the road to hit the exact spot.

Richard: Forester (X4).

 

No mute button for the stereo in the Harrier, if there is I have not been able to find it anywhere, and it’s definitely not on the steering wheel together with the volume control buttons. The Forester like every car I’ve driven that has volume controls on the steering wheel has a mute button near the volume controls. (Just being picky)

Richard: Neutral.

 

Aircon and stereo controls are all via touch screen on the Harrier; OK this is a personal thing, and there are a lot of cars which are like this as well, however I am one of those who prefers the aircon controls to be physical buttons and knobs, which is easier to manipulate while driving. (Stereo not such a big thing as there are physical buttons on the steering wheel)

Richard: Forester (X5).

 

Both have voice commands for calls and changing stations, etc, however the Forester’s version is definitely better in a number of ways, and the most apparent is when you make a call. When calling a number not in your phone book, and you dictate the number you want to call, in the Forester, if it is unsure of what you have asked, the system will read out to you the variations of what it thinks you said, and you just say 1 or 2, etc, however in the Harrier, if it is unsure, it will list the number on the screen, and ask you to choose the option. What is worse, the title is bright white, and the number you need to read and select are in a dim grey, which can be quite hard to read, which kind of defeats the purpose of a voice activated system, ie, ability to do things without looking at the screen.

Another user interface screw-up is the changing of the radio stations. On the touch screen, the preset stations are listed one below the other, and on the steering wheel the controls are an up and down arrow. Now the silly part is, if say 91.3 is number 1) and 95.0 is number 2) on the screen 2) is below 1), but to move from 1) to 2) via the steering wheel controls, you press the up button.

Richard: Neutral.

 

Although the Harrier comes fitted with GPS, the user interface is not the most intuitive, and does not allow your passenger to set it while the car is in motion.

Richard: Neutral.

 

The Harrier has an electronic rearview mirror, whose main purpose is to dim at night if the driver behind you drives with their high-beams on, so you are not blinded. However, I find that at night as long as there are cars behind you and their headlights are on, the mirror will dim, and makes it hard to see out of the rear mirror at night. Think of wearing dark sunglasses, the headlights won’t blind you, but everything is very dark, and you can hardly see anything else, but of course you can turn this off via a button on the mirror.

Richard: Neutral.

 

 

 

The Drive

Comfort – Harrier takes this one. As all Forester owners know, the Forester has a slightly bouncier ride, and this is mainly because it has been designed for some off-road capabilities, it is not terrible, but if you are used to a sedan, as the Harrier is essentially a jacked-up station wagon, it feels more car like.

Richard: Harrier turbo (X5). Indeed foresters sucks but FNA is much better. FXT is bad .. period .. but understandable cos it is also tuned for performance and control the seamless power.

 

Performance – This one is a little strange, on paper, it should be very similar, however it is not. Where the Forester moves off and accelerates effortlessly and keeps accelerating till you run out of nerve or road. License losing speeds are reached real fast, and the 7.5 sec for the century sprint and a 200+km/h top speed are totally believable; on the other hand, the Harrier feels totally different. It’s smooth and quiet and refined, and if not in Sport mode and without some aggressive work with your right foot, it feels kind of sluggish. Although it doesn’t feel underpowered (unless you are in Eco mode), it never feels like it’s accelerating very fast, and at lower speeds it seems a little reluctant to get going, but the mid to higher ranges are better; but unless you are really lead footed, it never feels fast, brisk at best. In all cases the Forester just feels faster and more responsive. I think it is not a matter of the engine capability, but more how the ECU has been programmed to respond to inputs by the driver. Could be Toyota trying to ensure that owners of Lexus NX and RX models with the same engine and transmission feel that their rides are better.

Both cars have 3 driving modes, Eco, Normal and Sports in the Harrier and I, S and S# in the Forester. There is only a slight difference between the 3 modes in the Harrier, and if you are in Eco mode, it feels like the Turbo charges have been disengaged, and the car does feel sluggish, and should be avoided. In the Forester, it’s a different story, with each mode having a very distinct personality. At one extreme is the I mode, which tries to keep things as smooth as possible and is reluctant to drop gears when pushed, and shifts up as soon as possible, versus the S# mode which does the opposite, ie, it drops a couple of gears if you prod the gas pedal a little harder and will hold a lower gear longer into higher revs before shifting up, the downside about driving in S# mode is that if you are driving a little harder, the transmission often can’t keep up with things and you feel the rubber band effect. For me, I prefer the S mode, as it is a good mix of responsiveness and smoothness. While Harrier defaults to Normal, the Forester defaults to I, which feels as sporty as the Sport mode on the Harrier.

Richard: Forester fxt (X6) without a shred of doubt but indeed most do fine with Harrier turbo .. if they had not experienced fxt but your FC will kaput.

 

Fuel Consumption - Using the different modes in the Forester can be confusing in terms of the effect on fuel consumption; I have found that how heavy footed you are has a greater impact than the mode you use. If you are very aggressive and drive in I mode, your consumption will be higher than if you drive more gently in S or S#. The Harrier has the additional stop start function and based on the week I had with it, I averaged about 11+ KM/L however with the Forester, over 2 years, I’m getting around 9 – 10 KM/L

Richard: Harrier turbo (X6). Tuned for performance as well as weight and friction from rotating 4 wheels due to AWD but champion safety especially on wet road.

 

Noise - Don’t get me wrong here, the Forester when driven in a civilized manner is a pretty quiet and serene place to be in, however the Harrier is just a little better, and you feel a lot more cocooned. However, the engine note is another matter. When pushed, the Forester’s flat four emits a growl, which to me has a sporty character to it and not at all unpleasant. The Harrier’s engine when pushed, whines, and sounds more like a kitchen appliance, makes you want to be gentle with it, for fear of breaking it, though I don’t think the engine is any less robust than the Subaru’s, but it just does not sound happy revving hard. Having said that, in the Harrier you feel a little disconnected from the car and road, where in the Forester you feel more part of the machine. Road noise is higher in the Forester, however this might be due to the different stock tires, so others who have driven both cars on the same rubber, can comment further.

Richard: Harrier turbo (X7).. no contest. Expensive, heavy and elaborate mods on SP and autofoam for noisy foresters needed. Learnt much from this ... SP which is fine for overall quietness ended with road/tyre noise which needed autofoam to alleviate but ended with heighten engine noise that needed further stuffing of 3M insulate material into and under dashboard especially on driver side's firewall.

 

The turning circle is an area that surprised me as the Forester has a turning circle of 5,300 mm while the Harrier is 5,600 mm, with the wheelbase of the Harrier being only 20mm longer than the Forester, and if you compare the Harrier with the Mazda CX-5, which has a wheelbase 40mm longer than the Harrier, but it has a turning circle 100mm less than the Harrier.

Richard: Forester (X7). Another advantage of AWD albiet higher FC

 

 

Safety

Both have all the standard safety features, but what the Harrier has that the Forester doesn’t is Lane departure alert, Pre-collision system, Dynamic radar cruise control and Adaptive high beam system; some of these are available in Foresters sold in other countries but just not here in Singapore. The Forester on the other hand has full time All-Wheel Drive while the Harrier is only front wheel drive, so off-road, in the snow or slippery conditions, no competition, the Forester wins hands down, which is why the Forester is one of the most popular cars in Alaska and Canada.

Richard: Forester (X8). AWD rules for me even with local foresters without eyesight ... lane departure, front collision alert etc. are available from commonly needed car dvr and can even add bsm.

 

Brakes in the Harrier are as to be expected, predictable and competent, nothing outstanding, but totally acceptable. The Forester however has a slight problem, the stock brake pads that come with the car suffer from brake fade, and it should be one of the first things that should be changed when you buy this. The brake cylinders, discs and calipers are more than capable, it is just the stock brake pads which are not. Upgrade to better brake pads and you will find the stopping distance shortened significantly, and you won’t suffer from brake fade. This is something I recommend to all FXT (Not too sure about FNAs) owners to do ASAP, given the cars ability to go fast.

Richard: Harrier turbo (X8). Had not tried forester with just pad change but I have big doubts that it compares even with just 1.3k front big 4 bbk and F/R ssbh or at least not VFM.

 

Price

A year ago, the difference in price between a Forester XT and Harrier was between $20 - $30K, and if you wanted a Harrier with a feature set to match the Forester (Less the AWD), you would have to go for the top of the range model. However today, the Harrier is only between about $1,000 to $15,000 more. If you don’t need/want an AWD drive vehicle, and are OK to go without paddle shifters, a sunroof, driver memory seats, passenger electric seats, rain sensing wipers and an electric tailgate, you can get a Harrier for about $1K - $3K more than a Forester XT, and gain a slightly more comfortable ride with a little more upmarket interior a navigation system and rear air conditioning vents, however if you want all the features that come standard with the Forester in the Harrier, it will set you back an additional $15 – 20K.

Richard: Harrier turbo (X9) .. with doubt. At current VES affected and indrnt pricing of near to Harrier turbo, fxt is no contest especially with <17k omv. Even with much much preferred drive (not the jittery and rocking boat "ride") and handling, I would have stayed with Harrier turbo instead of even my quite modded (non performance) fxt.

 

So where does that leave us? From my perspective, you have 2 similar vehicles, which are both very capable, with the Harrier feeling a little more refined and better put together, but with some issues with the user interface for anything that is linked to the touch screen and an ECU that has been programmed so that the 2.0L turbo engine feels more like a 2.0L naturally aspirated one half the time and an engine note that discourages spirited driving. The Forester on the other hand has a brighter cabin, a user interface for the radio, phone etc which though not as colorful or pretty, works a lot better, a more responsive transmission and engine combination that feels fast and nimble and did I mention sounds good when pushed hard, and has some serious off-road credentials, but with cheaper looking and feeling interior and a slightly less comfortable ride.

Richard: Harrier turbo (X10) in current key context of pricing ... to me, they are totally different car and it takes a lot of $, time and effort for fxt to be modded to surpass the Harrier turbo. Yes, I preferred my current fxt to Harrier turbo and it had been fun and good learning experience to get to this stage.

 

I’m sure some people will disagree with me, but in my opinion, brand loyalty aside, the Harrier will appeal to folks who want transportation, while the Forester is for those who enjoy driving.

Richard: Harrier Turbo (X11). Indeed but believe I had somewhat achieved both for my fxt within the 25k difference of even then cheapest 145k elegence version of Harrier turbo.

 

Arbitrary (X11) vs (X8) for the Harrier turbo with the same criteria as bro Wahtk and perhaps some Harrier turbo bros will comment more but for typically drivers and at current pricing, Harrier Turbo preferred is a no brainer and fxt only for performance only drivers on the cheap which cannot be many.

 

Cheers.

 

Richard 

Edited July 26, 2018 by richard_crl032

[richard_crl032]

Hey bros,

 

For the known torque converter issue, it is true from PI workshop that there is no new improved one and only best to service it only? My FIL's 3 yr old one just failed :(

 

Thanks !

 

Richard

[Junky73]

this is the killer for PI harrier. Not sure how many % are affected by this issue. If $$$ no issue I feel just change before it happens.

[Ghostrider8]

Hey bros,

 

For the known torque converter issue, it is true from PI workshop that there is no new improved one and only best to service it only? My FIL's 3 yr old one just failed :(

 

Thanks !

 

Richard

 

The torque converter issue affect the current HT by BM?

[richard_crl032]

this is the killer for PI harrier. Not sure how many % are affected by this issue. If $$$ no issue I feel just change before it happens.

 

Hi Junky,

 

Noted and thanks ... yes, seems to have read it several time but this time my FIL's.

 

Still within warranty but the centralised WS of PI of his non turbo top-of-the-range 170k is suspiciously reducing cost as he advised no new improved converter that he knows of and better to just service it which he claimed is better since replacement is likely to fail again while his service record so far had been ok with no repeat failure  .. hence the query here for advice.

 

BTW, warrantied but still need to pay 400 for transmission oil ... LL :(

 

Cheers,

 

Richard

Edited July 26, 2018 by richard_crl032

[Junky73]

How come change ATF so expensive? Can do mahor servicing already

[richard_crl032]

How come change ATF so expensive? Can do mahor servicing already

Hi Junky,

 

Ya lor ... despite saying it is almost 8l whichnis probably BS,,why should pay in the 1st place under warranty also :(

 

Cheers.

 

Richard

[richard_crl032]

The torque converter issue affect the current HT by BM?

Hi Ghost,

 

Only initial mths of launch into HT research but did not see any bro tried to advise you and I will do so ....

 

350Nm of HT not likely to use same torque converter of the PI's non turbo harrier.

 

The different gearbox, suspension and if course turbo engine to fix these key shortcomings of PI's were what attracted me to book the BM's HT before I switched to forester xt.

 

Cheers.

 

Richard

[jcchia]

Hi Bros,

 

Been a while and hope this review by champion bro Wahtk will be a good read:

 

http://www.mycarforum.com/topic/2698911-2015-forester-20/?p=6476958

 

Cheers,

 

Richard

Thanks for sharing ………….

[Thaiyotakamli]

I am sure plenty of folks drive faster than the speed limit.. admitting to it.. ah that's different sir..

Harrier speed meter slightly higher than actual speed. So u can hit 190kmh but in fact its 180kmh.

this is the killer for PI harrier. Not sure how many % are affected by this issue. If $$$ no issue I feel just change before it happens.

If want to get, get the YOM 2016 one, think they got change the TC and improved

[Avonez]

Hi bros,

 

 

No mute button for the stereo in the Harrier, if there is I have not been able to find it anywhere, and it’s definitely not on the steering wheel together with the volume control buttons. The Forester like every car I’ve driven that has volume controls on the steering wheel has a mute button near the volume controls. (Just being picky)

Richard: Neutral.

 

 

 

You can do a 3 finger swipe down on the stereo screen to mute the volume in the Harrier. Likewise to unmute. Fairly convenient.

[Mkl22]

Hi Junky,

 

Noted and thanks ... yes, seems to have read it several time but this time my FIL's.

 

Still within warranty but the centralised WS of PI of his non turbo top-of-the-range 170k is suspiciously reducing cost as he advised no new improved converter that he knows of and better to just service it which he claimed is better since replacement is likely to fail again while his service record so far had been ok with no repeat failure  .. hence the query here for advice.

 

BTW, warrantied but still need to pay 400 for transmission oil ... LL :(

 

Cheers,

 

Richard

 

$400 for oil alone is crazy, even if you add labour for just ATF change. care to share which workshop.?