Are We Ready for Electric Car, Safety & Environmental Aspect

[Buadongdong]

It's possible if thats a will that a way. So far I haven't seen a single wind turbine on Singapore coast line. Only a few buildings that have solar panels in Singapore. To power the whole Singapore electricity need is very very minimal land foot print with today technologies. Don't need to solely rely on fossil fuel.

 

Of cos if there is a will, there is a way. But at what cost? Talking about wind turbine, do you know how much wind speed is required to produce reasonable (useable) electricity? Do you know the required footprint to install wind turbines in Singapore? 

 

You also mentioned about whole singapore's electricity needs being very very minimal. Are you sure about that? What source are you quoting? From what I've found (https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/eg.use.elec.kh.pc), it seems like Singapore's consumption per capita is so much higher than HK, Malaysia, Japan and so on. You really think its easy to power Singapore's needs just by renewables??

[Buadongdong]

Wind turbine noise - Errr unless everyone live near the sea where all the tanker ship are than yes it noisy, otherwise you wouldn't hear a thing a few km away from land.

 

Sea current - Singapore is surrounded by sea isn't it?

 

Hydro dam - Sorry have to agree its impossible in Singapore. Not enough land space or hill.

 

Solar - If solar panels work in the UK or northern Europe it will 99% work better in Singapore. Cloudy in Singapore? Please...

I would urge you to check your facts. 

First and foremost, Wind turbines noise is only a small issue. Wind turbines actually require a very large footprint and not like you said that it doesnt. Wind turbine also requires a certain amt of wind speed in which Singapore don't have. To install it out on the seas is like telling the government to stop all the ships from coming into Singapore to dock which greatly affects our trade industry. Do you also know installation of wind turbines affect aviation wildlife as well? There are migratory birds flocking past SG in case you don't know. Or unless you dont care.

 

Secondly, Sea current. Yes we are surrounded by sea. But are those water currents sufficient to even turn the turbines below and generate useful electricity? Again, sea turbines affect marine life with those turbine blades turning. Maybe you have missed this out as well or you dont care.

 

Solar power. Have you checked the function of PV cells and what is  the "ingredient" to create electricity? I have posted elsewhere before that the insolation rates in singapore are just not good enough for Solar panel to even produce enough electricity to power a home. Let alone a country. And cloudy in SG? YES!! It is bloody cloudy in SG. And also do you know cloud shades can cause inefficiency of up to 50%? I'm not so sure about your claim that it will work 99% better in sg cos imo, thats BS.

Edited April 6, 2018 by Buadongdong

[Leafable]

I would urge you to check your facts. 

First and foremost, Wind turbines noise is only a small issue. Wind turbines actually require a very large footprint and not like you said that it doesnt. Wind turbine also requires a certain amt of wind speed in which Singapore don't have. To install it out on the seas is like telling the government to stop all the ships from coming into Singapore to dock which greatly affects our trade industry. Do you also know installation of wind turbines affect aviation wildlife as well? There are migratory birds flocking past SG in case you don't know. Or unless you dont care.

 

Secondly, Sea current. Yes we are surrounded by sea. But are those water currents sufficient to even turn the turbines below and generate useful electricity? Again, sea turbines affect marine life with those turbine blades turning. Maybe you have missed this out as well or you dont care.

 

Solar power. Have you checked the function of PV cells and what is  the "ingredient" to create electricity? I have posted elsewhere before that the insolation rates in singapore are just not good enough for Solar panel to even produce enough electricity to power a home. Let alone a country. And cloudy in SG? YES!! It is bloody cloudy in SG. And also do you know cloud shades can cause inefficiency of up to 50%? I'm not so sure about your claim that it will work 99% better in sg cos imo, thats BS.

 

Have you check the wind speed yourself? Lets get the relevant department do the research than just naysayer. All ships are follow the same dedicated route. Again I wouldn't worry about ship will not be able to go through once wind turbine is near by.

You see the red dot on the map. That how little a wind turbine need for space to build on with the biggest propellents.

I agree that it will effect some of the wild life migration. So burning gas/coal wouldn't kill them?

 

Yes they do effect some marine life. Again all the ships spitting out more lethal emission into the sea that kill marine life or chop up by the ship/boat propellent blades than a few large underwater turbine blade.

 

Have you been to the UK before? We have solar panels on top of our house in Essex and it still generating energy even in the miserable WINTER. Agree it did effect the efficiency but still work. The trouble is people looking at short term instead of long term when generating energy from renewable. Have you have solar panel at home?

[Buadongdong]

Have you check the wind speed yourself? Lets get the relevant department do the research than just naysayer. All ships are follow the same dedicated route. Again I wouldn't worry about ship will not be able to go through once wind turbine is near by.

You see the red dot on the map. That how little a wind turbine need for space to build on with the biggest propellents.

Screen Shot 2018-04-06 at 5.24.55 PM.png

I agree that it will effect some of the wild life migration. So burning gas/coal wouldn't kill them?

 

Yes they do effect some marine life. Again all the ships spitting out more lethal emission into the sea that kill marine life or chop up by the ship/boat propellent blades than a few large underwater turbine blade.

 

Have you been to the UK before? We have solar panels on top of our house in Essex and it still generating energy even in the miserable WINTER. Agree it did effect the efficiency but still work. The trouble is people looking at short term instead of long term when generating energy from renewable. Have you have solar panel at home?

If that red little dot represent 1 wind turbine, in your opinion, may I ask how many is enough to power up singapore?

Do you have an alternative for the highlighted statement? 

No I have not been to the UK and I do not have solar panel at home. But at least I did a thesis on these and my grades aren't too shabby.

 

And of cos saying all these, I do hope we can rely less on FF, but to be independent, very unlikely.

[Kb27]

Right now, there's lithium iron phospate battery.

It doesn't have the thermal runaway problem like the lithium-ion.

[Leafable]

If that red little dot represent 1 wind turbine, in your opinion, may I ask how many is enough to power up singapore?

Do you have an alternative for the highlighted statement? 

No I have not been to the UK and I do not have solar panel at home. But at least I did a thesis on these and my grades aren't too shabby.

 

And of cos saying all these, I do hope we can rely less on FF, but to be independent, very unlikely.

 

Technology constantly evolving and improving.

 

These wave generator can be the alternative than propellents.

 

I agree we can't solely depend on renewable at the moment. But at least we can try part of it. So far that nothing indicate we are heading this direction in Singapore.

[Buadongdong]

Technology constantly evolving and improving.

 

These wave generator can be the alternative than propellents.

pelamis_wave_power_system.gif

 

I agree we can't solely depend on renewable at the moment. But at least we can try part of it. So far that nothing indicate we are heading this direction in Singapore.

Have la.. Some solar installations.. But savings never pass down lor.. Charge us higher utilities some more.

[Carbon82]

Not If, But WHEN...

 

 

Tesla crash may have triggered battery fire, Swiss firefighters say

 

Swiss firefighters said on Monday that the impact in a fatal accident involving a Tesla electric car may have set off a fire in the vehicle's battery.

 

The crash, which happened on Thursday, is one of several accidents to affect Tesla vehicles in recent days, and one of several crashes in recent years involving fires.

 

"The violent impact of lithium-ion batteries could probably have caused a phenomenon called 'thermal runaway', i.e. a rapid and unstoppable increase in temperature," Ticino fire brigade said on its Facebook page.

 

Lithium-ion batteries can, under exceptional circumstances, have a sudden and unstoppable increase in temperature, in a sort of chain reaction that leads to the complete destruction of the batteries and the car, said fire safety expert Guido Zaccarelli in an article quoted by the firefighters.

 

 

 

Fire chief: Tesla crash shows electric car fires could strain department resources

 

After Friday's fiery fatal crash of a Tesla Model X on U.S. Highway 101, police and firefighters are assessing how emergency response will need to change in a world where electric cars are becoming more common.

 

"Because the battery was exposed, we were unsure whether it was safe for us to move the vehicle," Montiel said.

 

Made up of more than 7,000 individual cells, many of them strewn across several lanes of the freeway, the battery was both an electrocution hazard and a fire hazard, the chief said. Lithium-ion batteries damaged from impact can go into a state called "thermal runaway."

 

"The battery itself overheats, the plastic components that separate the modules of the battery begin to ignite, and eventually, you wind up with a battery that is on fire," he said, adding that lithium ignites at a temperature of more than 900 degrees Fahrenheit.

 

Tesla's actually no stranger to the Mountain View Fire Department. They've conducted trainings with firefighters, including some at their factory in Fremont, on how to handle Tesla batteries when they're damaged in an accident, and how to disconnect batteries from each Tesla model.

 

"We know there's gonna be more and more coming in the future," Diaz said. "For the fire service, what it means is we're gonna have to be on the scene longer."

 

In this case, that included a fire engine company that escorted the Tesla to a tow yard, and then stood guard for hours.

 

"Even after 24 hours of extinguishment, these (lithium) ion batteries could reignite if they've been damaged, and again cause a fire," Diaz said.

 

 

 

Tesla Battery Reignites 6 Days After Crash

 

Along with new technologies comes new challenges, and electric vehicles are no exception. This lesson was reinforced recently when battery cells from the a fiery Tesla Model X crash reignited days after the original incident.

 

According to Mountain View Fire Chief Juan Diaz, the battery from this particular deadly crash reignited after six days. Some of the cells that weren’t completely destroyed in the pack still had energy, and over time the damaged cylinders experienced heat elevation that eventually turned into a combustion event.

 

Though it is, thankfully, a rare occurance, it is one that first responders and others need to be aware of. To that end the Chief Diaz issued a 13-page document that discusses the dangers the firemen had experienced during the response to the Model X accident. Among the main issues is how to deal with an energized battery when the mechanism for neutralizing it — the “cut loop” — is destroyed.

 

With electric vehicles increasing in number by the day, the risk of a secondary fires and other challenges goes up. One potential tool for responders under development and being eyed by fire departments is the  DC hot stick. It can tell the user whether a vehicle has current flowing through the body structure.

[DACH]

Move towards hydrogen fuel?

[Carbon82]

I sincerely hope our authorities are working on some measures to deal with electric vehicle (EV) fire. It is for REAL and no joking matter if batteries of the damaged EV started igniting by itself, while waiting to be towed away, stored for investigation, or while waiting for it to be repaired... ...  

 

 

Tesla Driver Dies In Fiery Florida Crash – And Car's Battery Still Burns A Day Later

 

 

A Tesla owner was killed in a fiery crash in Davie, Florida, Sunday afternoon and a day later local emergency officials were still contending with the car’s damaged lithium-ion battery pack that repeatedly reignited while sitting in a towing yard.

 

The man who died in the accident, Omar Awan, was driving on South Flamingo Road in Davie (which is north of Miami and adjacent to Fort Lauderdale) at about 4:30 pm local time when his 2016 Model S sedan veered off the road for an unknown reason, police spokesman Sergeant Mark Leone told Forbes. Awan then appears to have overcorrected the steering and lost control of the car, sending it across three lanes of traffic before it crashed into trees in the median, Leone said.

 

The car was engulfed in flames, leaving Awan’s body “burned beyond recognition” when it was finally removed from the car. Investigators don’t yet know whether the accident occurred due to a technical flaw in the car or if Awan experienced a health issue prior to losing control of the car, Leone said.

 

The vehicle was traveling at a high rate of speed, of between 75 mph and 90 mph, according to people who witnessed the accident, he said. The posted speed limit is 50 mph.

 

Battery keeps flaming up because… that’s how they work!

 

Unlike fires in crashes involving gasoline-powered cars, which tend to burn very rapidly, damaged electric car battery packs can reignite in chemical fires long afterward. In the Davie case, the pack in Awan’s Model S appears to have reignited at least three times since the accident, according to Leone and local media reports.

 

The potential for Tesla battery fires has been an issue of concern in the past, notably in 2013 when the company strengthened the protective metal casing after a number of fires caused when packs were damaged. The company also provides safety information and meets with first responders to help them deal with damaged Teslas.

 

“Battery fires can take up to 24 hours to extinguish. Consider allowing the battery to burn while protecting exposures,” the company said in its Emergency Response Guide. “Due to potential re-ignition, a Model S that has been involved in a submersion, fire, or a collision that has compromised the high voltage battery should be stored in an open area at least 50 ft (15 m) from any exposure.”

 

The company also advises that “a thermal imaging camera can be used to actively measure the temperature of the high voltage battery and monitor the trend of heating or cooling” after the initial fire and smoke appear to have subsided.

[Bigtoe]

No point to discuss about electric car in Singapore. Government has not yet figured out how to get money from electric cars, they will not encourage electricity car. If everyone buys electricity car, they will lost a big amount of petrol tax.

[andrewyewkc]

No point to discuss about electric car in Singapore. Government has not yet figured out how to get money from electric cars, they will not encourage electricity car. If everyone buys electricity car, they will lost a big amount of petrol tax.

I have absolute faith that our government will find multiple solutions to extract revenue from this. Now that Dyson is moving here, there is an urgency for them to find these solutions. So it is quite timely to discuss the safety implications of these batteries.

[Bigtoe]

I have absolute faith that our government will find multiple solutions to extract revenue from this. Now that Dyson is moving here, there is an urgency for them to find these solutions. So it is quite timely to discuss the safety implications of these batteries.

They tried one of multiple solutions. Raise road tax for electronic car very high to compensate for their lost of petrol tax.

 

When I read the news that Singapore government charged $8,000/year road tax for a Tesla electric car, I immediately knew that Singaporeans have no chance to buy and use electric cars in this life. Maybe next life, Singaporeans will have chance to buy and use electric cars.

[andrewyewkc]

Another fire.

 

https://futurism.com/the-byte/tesla-fire-shanghai-parking-garage

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lm6drQ0FKgU

 

[Carbon82]

Smoking BMW i8 Dumped In Water By Firefighters

 

This isn't a response to a car fire that we're familiar with.

 

 

 

 

Firefighters in The Netherlands responded to a smoking BMW i8 at a dealer by picking up the hybrid coupe with a crane and dumping it into a huge tank of water. The car remained underwater for 24 hours to be very certain that the vehicle didn't burst into flames.

 

The following is an English translation of the fire department's message on Facebook: "This morning an electric car started to smoke in a showroom. The employees of the garage and the fire brigade acted quickly to drive the car outside. Because it is an electric car, inventive action was necessary. The car is immersed in a container of water because extinguishing it in the 'normal' way is difficult with these cars. The car will remain in the water basin for the next 24 hours."

 

Electrified vehicle fires require different tactics than combustion-powered automobiles for extinguishing the flames. For example, a guide from Tesla to firefighters says that "approximately 3,000 gallons of water applied directly to the battery" is necessary.

 

What's not clear is whether this is the fire department's usual reaction to an electrified vehicle fire. Traveling with a crane and giant water tank doesn't seem very convenient. Plus, if the BMW were already in flames, picking it up and placing the coupe into container doesn't seem safe.

 

The current i8 packs an 11.6-kilowatt-hour battery, rather than the 7.1 kWh from earlier model years of the coupe. Its electric motor produces 141 horsepower (105 kilowatts) and 184 pound-feet (249 Newton-meters). It allows for 18 miles (28 kilometers) of driving purely on electric power.

[Sdf4786k]

electric cars are not an immediate danger yet. The one I am more concern of is the e scooter that is use and charge at the office.

 

Imagine lunch time and everyone away and the charging of the e scooter at the office cubicle catch fire.

 

 

[Carbon82]

electric cars are not an immediate danger yet. The one I am more concern of is the e scooter that is use and charge at the office.

 

Imagine lunch time and everyone away and the charging of the e scooter at the office cubicle catch fire.

 

I ban PMD in my office, as I do see the risk it posed. When challenged by my AMDK director, I just pointed to strings of news report on PMD fire and asked if he is willing to bear the consequences if anything happens?

 

Actually the more scarier scene is at those logistics hub, where workers left their PMD within the warehouse premises, once a fire started, it might just spread like wild fire... I'm sure insurer like FM Global and Allianz are already working on guidelines to deal with fire risk posed by PMD, and new rules are on the horizon.

 

 

EV is old and still inefficient and dangerous. Why EV and not hydrogen fuel cell ?

 

I'm seeing hybrid and EVs as a stop gap measures, since production cost has come down significantly in the past few years. Hygrogen fuel cell is not dead apparantly, according to this report.

 

Audi Hasn’t Given Up On Fuel Cell Vehicles, New Prototype Coming Later This Year

 

Audi has embraced electric vehicles and is gearing up to launch the e-tron crossover in the United States. It will soon be followed by the e-tron Sportback and e-tron GT.

 

Despite the focus on electrification, the company hasn’t given up on hydrogen fuel cell technology. It’s been a few years since Audi has showcased a fuel cell concept, but Autocar reports a new prototype – with a sixth-generation fuel cell – will be introduced later this year.

 

According to the publication, the renewed focus on hydrogen comes as a result of growing concerns about the supply of raw materials needed to produce battery packs. Issues are already popping up and they’ll likely become more severe as electric vehicles begin to flood the market.

 

To combat this and other issues, Audi is set to become Volkswagen’s lead group on hydrogen fuel cell technology. As Audi chairman Bram Schot explained, “We are going to put more priority into hydrogen fuel cells – more money, more capacity of people and more confidence.”

 

As part of this effort, Audi could put a fuel cell vehicle into limited production. Little is known about it, but the model could be produced in Neckarsulm, Germany and be offered to consumers through a special leasing program. The model could arrive by 2021 and use fuel cell technology sourced from Hyundai thanks to an agreement that was inked last summer.

 

Later on, we can expect additional fuel cell vehicles. There’s no word on specifics, but Schot suggested volume production could begin during the second half of the next decade. That’s pretty far into the future, but hopefully hydrogen refueling stations will be more common by then.

 

[Solar]

EV is old and still inefficient and dangerous. Why EV and not hydrogen fuel cell ?

Now this reminds that I better park far far away from BlueSG cars and their charging points..

 

Not sure also if anyone noticed, they are very noisy. Something like a loud howling sound.

Edited May 4, 2019 by Solar