VES 2018

[Friendstar]

I'm still waiting for the whole list of cars with their respective banding.

[Wildfaye29]

Me too

[fungyee77]

That depends bro..

For the high end, the COE and surcharge are a small factor.

For the average Joe, his / her choice of cars will definitely change.

 

At the higher end, a Rolls Royce buyer is hardly moved when VES adds a surcharge of 30k or so.

 

If you look at the Merc / BMW / Audi forums, there's very little chatter about the carbon tax or VES. Small blip only.

 

And while I agree with the general premise, I think the impact will be felt in the numbers.  

 

Premium makes have been increasing their revenue by expanding the range into high end B&B levels, Audi via small capacity turbos (i.e. A4 1.4T, A3 1.0T) and BMW via diesels (116d, 216d etc).

 

By the numbers, these are the big sellers and these will be heavily hit with prices increasing $20-30k under the new system. The market for a $150k A4 1.4T is very different from that of a $180k A4 1.4T. 

[Axela72]

ppls are nagging economic crisis while interest rate increase? so which party is correct on the market lookout?

 

 

Barely 2 weeks after the budget....lai Liao...more Ang pow coming...wave after wave...after wave. Forming up into a powerful tsunami !!

Rising Interest Rates: Singaporean Consumers Are Rushing to Borrow

https://sg.finance.y...-200905881.html

2017 - 2018 tough times ahead

SuperB man in white...my soldiers shooting are also white !! FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

 

seem like 38k coe is the lowest for this decade. Can remember whom is the culprit here during that time keep asking others don't be KCS to wait for further drop?

 

 

No hope for COE drop, everybody KCS will  be rushing for car before end of the year.

 

[therock]

And while I agree with the general premise, I think the impact will be felt in the numbers.  

 

Premium makes have been increasing their revenue by expanding the range into high end B&B levels, Audi via small capacity turbos (i.e. A4 1.4T, A3 1.0T) and BMW via diesels (116d, 216d etc).

 

By the numbers, these are the big sellers and these will be heavily hit with prices increasing $20-30k under the new system. The market for a $150k A4 1.4T is very different from that of a $180k A4 1.4T. 

Indeed, some of these marques have been doing good business expanding into the 'alternate Corolla' segment. With a high COE, they have done well.

But now this new scheme is a clever yet subtle move to push buyers towards certain cars. I don't know if they used the Corolla as a benchmark for clean engines, but since the LTA boss also drives one, it's possible.

Then using that as the most popular AD car, they devised the figures to cull cars which came in dirtier.

 

Then for the luxury segment, they used the E200, another top 10 selling car, so everyone has a car in each segment which will keep them happy. Of course, now the choices are limited, but this is temporary. I am sure Audi and BMW will come back with cleaner alternatives. 

[Vratenza]

From now to Jan 2018, there is enough time for BMW/MERC/AUDI engineers to tune their 2.0L TC engines to "massage" their range into a certain lower band.

 

for eg. Merc 200/250/300 all using same engine in different stat of tune with different emission figures.

 

One of the merc 250 range engine is currently 163, CEVs neutral but VEVs surcharge 10K.

 

Not that hard for the AD to request for the engine to be slightly detuned to make the C02 emission go below 160 (VEVs Neutral band).

 

 

 

[therock]

From now to Jan 2018, there is enough time for BMW/MERC/AUDI engineers to tune their 2.0L TC engines to "massage" their range into a certain lower band.

 

for eg. Merc 200/250/300 all using same engine in different stat of tune with different emission figures.

 

One of the merc 250 range engine is currently 163, CEVs neutral but VEVs surcharge 10K.

 

Not that hard for the AD to request for the engine to be slightly detuned to make the C02 emission go below 160 (VEVs Neutral band).

 

True..

The current M270 engine producing 122 BHP is basically a detuned version of the 156 BHP 1.6T engine.

In fact it was introduced just before the dyno tests came in, so there is some chatter that in turbo mode, it actually exceeds the 122 BHP..

 

http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/cars-pass-lta-test-on-their-power-output

 

 

Controversial tests by the Land Transport Authority (LTA) to check whether car companies have been trying to get around a power cap that determines Certificate of Entitlement categories have found their models produce as much power as their manufacturers declared.

The LTA has carried out four "chassis dynamometer tests" since November to ensure the companies do not circumvent a new 130bhp power cap introduced last year to remove luxury makes from Category A COE.

As soon as the new rule was in place, Mercedes-Benz introduced 122bhp models to maintain its presence in Category A.

The LTA told The Straits Times it has tested four models since Nov 3 - the Nissan Qashqai 1.2 Turbo, Honda HR-V 1.5, Honda Mobilio 1.5, and Peugeot 308 1.2. "All four models showed power outputs that are aligned with the declared maximum power output," an LTA spokesman said.

The Straits Times understands the Mercedes-Benz B180 and CLA180 were among cars tested.

 

 

Sources claim both cars do not meet the 130bhp cap if their turbochargers are in "overboost" - a momentary power surge that comes on only when the car is driven hard.

However, it was argued that overboost was an intermittent occurrence, and the cars were not designed to have that function. The test was thus recalibrated to take this into account.

The LTA spokesman said the Mercedes-Benz B180 and CLA180 were approved last January, before the dynamometer test became mandatory in November.

"They participated only in trial tests that had no implication on their type approved status," she added.

Because of the dynamometer test, the approval process for new cars now takes two to four months, compared to two to four weeks previously.

The test - which costs $500 to $1,000 per car - rattled German manufacturers the most. They claim it contravenes a proposed free-trade agreement between Singapore and the European Union.

[Carbon82]

No time for a proper research of the official emission figures, but a quick look at the new VES requirement, diesel, small TC petrol, and large NA petrol engine will all be affected. And as simple as it is, all MPV, SUV will have to pay surcharge from next year.

 

And if you read LTA announcement line by line, look like electric car may not be getting the max $20K rebate too.

 

6.  To account for the CO₂ emissions produced by electricity generation from fossil fuels, an emission factor will be applied to the electricity consumption of electric vehicles (EVs) and plug-in hybrid vehicles (PHEVs) as measured under the United Nations Economic Commission for Europe (UNECE) Regulation No.101 test procedures.

[Doppel]

No time for a proper research of the official emission figures, but a quick look at the new VES requirement, diesel, small TC petrol, and large NA petrol engine will all be affected. And as simple as it is, all MPV, SUV will have to pay surcharge from next year.

 

And if you read LTA announcement line by line, look like electric car may not be getting the max $20K rebate too.

 

6. To account for the CO₂ emissions produced by electricity generation from fossil fuels, an emission factor will be applied to the electricity consumption of electric vehicles (EVs) and plug-in hybrid vehicles (PHEVs) as measured under the United Nations Economic Commission for Europe (UNECE) Regulation No.101 test procedures.

As I wrote in an earlier post:

 

The Government has already covered all the angles.

 

Bao Jiak.

[Aaronlkl]

As I wrote in an earlier post:

 

The Government has already covered all the angles.

 

Bao Jiak.

Garbagement bao jiak,

Sinkies bao si!

Like it or not,

This is reality!

 

Singapore has indeed grew from a 3rd class country to 1st class. I remember when i was young, my dad told me stories abt Singapore in its 60s and 70s. Gangsters collecting protection etc...

 

But today, after so many years.. Has the situation changed?? What u guys think?

Edited March 11, 2017 by Aaronlkl

[Carbon82]

Actually looking at the series of changes to taxes, it go against the government policy to promote multi-generation living.

 

1) You pay more and get less rebate for staying in multi-gen flat (conv charges, utilities, property tax, etc.)

2) Lesser or no grant from government since household income will likely exceed the set limits

3) And buying a MPV to get the whole for a proper outing is going to cost more from now (ok, from next year to be precise)

 

I am not anti-gov, but I just cannot get the rational behind all these contradicting policies... unless $$$ is really the only objective.

[Wildfaye29]

Die cock stand

[Wt_know]

enough said

Edited March 11, 2017 by Wt_know

[Benarsenal]

That depends bro..

For the high end, the COE and surcharge are a small factor.

For the average Joe, his / her choice of cars will definitely change.

 

After all, why buy a QQ 1.2T for 25k more, when one can consider other cars? Sure the driver may have liked the QQ, but if it's going to be so much, then the same budget will then be able to buy a Merc or some other car.

Take the current price of a QQ - around 105k or so. Add 25k to that, and the choice of cars is quite different. If the buyer wishes to stick to his budget because that's all he can spend, he may well force himself to like a Corolla. At that range of the market, buyer tend to buy on price rather than form or style.

 

At the higher end, a Rolls Royce buyer is hardly moved when VES adds a surcharge of 30k or so.

 

If you look at the Merc / BMW / Audi forums, there's very little chatter about the carbon tax or VES. Small blip only.

 

There will be strategy shifts from the dealers to adapt. For example the Kia Niro Hybrid. Won't be surprised if Kah Motors bring in HR-V Hybrid as well.

 

There's also been talk that most of the brands that currently sell B&B diesels (Renault etc) will slowly change their model line-up to cleaner petrol/hybrid models. Even Nissan has hybrid models lined up in the near future.

 

The dealers all know this. If it affects them too adversely they definitely have to adjust their products to suit.

Edited March 11, 2017 by Benarsenal

[therock]

Yep

The average Singaporean may be a complaint king but he is also adaptable and will gravitate towards the more cost effective cars. Dealers will have to adapt or become the next skoda..

Some companies will need to adjust more... Eg SEAT just introduced a slew of cars with a certain price tag, hoping to market themselves as a good and cheap alternative to VW but now their cars will get affected by the surcharge... Let's see how companies like them will react.

[Char]

Haha ... we have Cleaners air ... suddenly our Neighbour burn jungle again and the bad air follow wind come over here ! All the efforts gone liao Lor !

[Char]

Air may be taxable soon !! Irregardless oxygen, nitrogen, carbon monoxide dioxide or ammonia!

 

Oh ya, neighbour. Entering via intruding our air space. FINE & TAX !!

What to do ... housing also so complicated .... now car follow lo ...

[Aaronlkl]

Haha ... we have Cleaners air ... suddenly our Neighbour burn jungle again and the bad air follow wind come over here ! All the efforts gone liao Lor !

 

To have clean air is just their secondary objective.

 

The entire universe know what their main objectives are..

 

Even the blinds also can see clearly....