DACH Supersonic September 6, 2018 Share September 6, 2018 So many rules and regulations but also difficult to catch them got what use? In the 1st place, why bring them in but nvr think of the consequences? Poor planning.Just ban. Save a lot of resources from the govt and pavements are safer for everyone. ↡ Advertisement 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kxbc Turbocharged September 6, 2018 Share September 6, 2018 if the authorities allow people to submit video of speeding pmds as evidence to summon, then the policing might become more effective. manpower will never be enough to police all the pcns etc at all times. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kklim Supercharged September 6, 2018 Share September 6, 2018 Nothing about PMDs not being designed to carry pillion or maximum load (for food delivery, etc). Bloody dangerous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vratenza Supersonic September 6, 2018 Share September 6, 2018 (edited) I think there are 2 camps in the long standing discussion on whether PMD should be allowed to share a common space as pedestrian. On one side are the supporters who most likely ride PMD themselves on a regular basis. The other camp are mainly those who see PMD as a nuisance and danger to pedestrian. Whether it is a necessary evil is another whole debate altogether. For me, I tried an electrical scooter at Port Dickson recently riding around the resort. It's fun but I can also see how it can be dangerous to the rider and the pedestrians if the riders are not careful. But one thing that made me adverse to accepting PMDs on pathways and corridors was personal experience of my son and myself nearly got knocked by one PMD scooter riding his way through a narrow conserved shophouse corridor, have I not been alert and pulled my son away in time. Edited September 6, 2018 by Vratenza 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogerNg_185295 6th Gear September 6, 2018 Author Share September 6, 2018 Falco PEV was raided by LTA and TP for selling illegal stuff. They were once indirectly giving the industry a bad name. https://www.facebook.com/groups/JustVisited/permalink/867731230086863/ It was in before it was allowed.Falcon PEV started selling PMD since 2013 (I think).Active Mobility Act was enacted in 2017. Before this act, all PMD on public roads are ILLEGAL. Most of them are designed to carry a small child. Nothing about PMDs not being designed to carry pillion or maximum load (for food delivery, etc). Bloody dangerous. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
inlinesix Supersonic September 6, 2018 Share September 6, 2018 Just ban. Save a lot of resources from the govt and pavements are safer for everyone.If current enforcement is lax, how to enforce ban on use of existing devices? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
inlinesix Supersonic September 6, 2018 Share September 6, 2018 Is this device or users fault? If user fault, whatever rule also useless if enforcement is lacking. Since users fault, private car should also be ban. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor68 Turbocharged September 6, 2018 Share September 6, 2018 a PMD don't take up more space than a bicycle. U want to ban the PMD from the footpath? then ban all bicycles lor. Personally I prefer footpath continue to be for pedestrian. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DACH Supersonic September 6, 2018 Share September 6, 2018 (edited) Is this device or users fault? If user fault, whatever rule also useless if enforcement is lacking. Since users fault, private car should also be ban. There are traffic rules and registration plates to control and regulate private cars and other vehicles on the roads. Drivers need to go for courses to get a license to drive. And the TP is there to issue summons and install more cameras at many roads. PMDs are a nuisance everywhere since the introduction and regulations, enforcements are totally half hearted and resources are wasted for such inefficiencies. There are no courses and licenses to use them, no means to track them, no demerit system and jail terms to punish offenders. Since the enforcements are half hearted, then totally ban all these will lift up the resources to enforce and the need to enforce. Just like how firecrackers, chewing gums, abusive drugs, fire arms, are banned and save the resources to do enforcement or the lack of it. There are no such problems before these PMDs are introduced and made illegal. Totally ban them restores the state of more orderly and safer roads and pavements for everyone in the past, and save the govt resources to do something more meaningful elsewhere. Your logic is totally flawed. While users are part of the problem, the device itself is a problem. No registrations, too easy to weave in and out of everywhere and people, too easy to go unnoticed and traceable, and a fire hazard. Edited September 6, 2018 by DACH 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DACH Supersonic September 6, 2018 Share September 6, 2018 Personally I prefer footpath continue to be for pedestrian.I'm ok with bicycles. They are just like pedestrians that is foot controlled. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datsun366 Turbocharged September 6, 2018 Share September 6, 2018 The regulations are late. After a old man got killed by pmd user. Its really late. First off the Sg i know would have studied and formulated a seamless introduction of PMD into Singapore. Instead it became unregulated and somewhat messy. Disappointing. Just a scene i witnessed at 6 in the morning of illegal parking obstructing view. Illegal as in morning rush to deliver stuff. And a PMD comes out infront of the illegally park truck. So a cab was rolling past me, probably not alert as i was to the danger that he would have ran into. Had to horn and flash as it was a curve and the event was on lane 1 and i was at a great view in lane 2. Why i so kaypoh? This event happened within 500m of a MAJOR police station. PMD users have to be registered using the local community centres as bases. A simple hankerchief allows jerks to continue riding roughly and causing danger. Ever since the obikes were gone. Things have appeared neater and distractions to drivers have reduced. I mean i will check the 'obike' by the roadside is being ridden or not especially if the front wheel is aiming at the kerb, especially in the dark of dawn. Bicycles on the road must have third party insurance if the apache pilot can claim damages then the users of buses should be able to claim against bicyclists. Why because some bicyclist know exactly what they are doing and insist other road users to respect their rights on the road. So it should be a two way street, bicyclists have to pay for their priviledge especially on $18000 bikes. I know my bicycles too. But i respect public safety and not to inconvenience others by flaunting my ability and wealth. Stricter. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
inlinesix Supersonic September 6, 2018 Share September 6, 2018 There are traffic rules and registration plates to control and regulate private cars and other vehicles on the roads. Drivers need to go for courses to get a license to drive. And the TP is there to issue summons and install more cameras at many roads. PMDs are a nuisance everywhere since the introduction and regulations, enforcements are totally half hearted and resources are wasted for such inefficiencies. There are no courses and licenses to use them, no means to track them, no demerit system and jail terms to punish offenders. Since the enforcements are half hearted, then totally ban all these will lift up the resources to enforce and the need to enforce. Just like how firecrackers, chewing gums, abusive drugs, fire arms, are banned and save the resources to do enforcement or the lack of it. There are no such problems before these PMDs are introduced and made illegal. Totally ban them restores the state of more orderly and safer roads and pavements for everyone in the past, and save the govt resources to do something more meaningful elsewhere. Your logic is totally flawed. While users are part of the problem, the device itself is a problem. No registrations, too easy to weave in and out of everywhere and people, too easy to go unnoticed and traceable, and a fire hazard. HOW to enforce total ban on current users of PMD? Take note that device already in users hand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DACH Supersonic September 6, 2018 Share September 6, 2018 HOW to enforce total ban on current users of PMD? Take note that device already in users hand. How did firecrackers and chewing gums are totally eradicated when the bans were imposed? Use the same method. Give deadline to surrender and reimburse back the person based on the age and type of the device. If don't surrender by deadline and found using in the public, confiscate and fine. On top of that, if it is found to be using a battery that is non fire safety compliant, increase the fine. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
inlinesix Supersonic September 6, 2018 Share September 6, 2018 How did firecrackers and chewing gums are totally eradicated when the bans were imposed? Use the same method. Give deadline to surrender and reimburse back the person based on the age and type of the device. If don't surrender by deadline and found using in the public, confiscate and fine. On top of that, if it is found to be using a battery that is non fire safety compliant, increase the fine. What was the method used? With surrender and reimbursement, are we raiding reserves? How about Merchants with existing stocks? With the ban, who going to compensate traders in this biz? What you are doing is killing ppl livelihood. 斷人衣食 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DACH Supersonic September 6, 2018 Share September 6, 2018 What was the method used? With surrender and reimbursement, are we raiding reserves? How about Merchants with existing stocks? With the ban, who going to compensate traders in this biz? What you are doing is killing ppl livelihood. 斷人衣食 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
inlinesix Supersonic September 6, 2018 Share September 6, 2018 All these will be surrendered to the relevant authorities, whether it is LTA or the police or which ever agency. How were firecrackers and chewing gums totally removed from the users? Once these things are declared banned items, they are more efficient to do the ban than to do the enforcement to catch errant users. Merchants with existing stocks can the flexibility to sell them elsewhere, to other countries. Don't use them as an excuse that these devices are going to give them losses. They can sell it to other countries to recoup the losses. With the time frame towards the day of banning, they have the choices to get rid of them. Either sell them elsewhere or surrender to the authorities. Even now with more and more regulations coming up, they should start to think twice of selling them. Even if they can keep, they cannot sell due to ban and it will be a bigger loss to them. They can still sell those devices that is medically certified to use for people with disabilities only and sell bicycles. Well, you haven't address how the enforcement to be done. We need detail plan. Not sweeping statements. With surrender and reimbursement, are we raiding reserves? With your suggested ban. you are killing merchants. That's an undeniable facts. Will merchants be compensated for surrendered device? With so many to device to be exported, where to export to? Any assistance to be rendered? 斷人衣食猶如殺人父母。 Lastly, is there safety standards on battery? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atonchia Supersonic September 6, 2018 Share September 6, 2018 I think there are 2 camps in the long standing discussion on whether PMD should be allowed to share a common space as pedestrian. On one side are the supporters who most likely ride PMD themselves on a regular basis. The other camp are mainly those who see PMD as a nuisance and danger to pedestrian. Whether it is a necessary evil is another whole debate altogether. For me, I tried an electrical scooter at Port Dickson recently riding around the resort. It's fun but I can also see how it can be dangerous to the rider and the pedestrians if the riders are not careful. But one thing that made me adverse to accepting PMDs on pathways and corridors was personal experience of my son and myself nearly got knocked by one PMD scooter riding his way through a narrow conserved shophouse corridor, have I not been alert and pulled my son away in time. I don't use PMD, but I don't advocate a total ban. Given out equatorial climate walking 5-15mins to next mode of public transport will cause people to sweat. It's to allow people to move in comfort, not for speed, which will endanger everyone else. And because too many cannot exercise restraint like what you've personally encountered, so need to have a law to restrict. Just like there's speed restriction on roads and certain vehicle types. At least the rules are set, then enforcement when required to send a message. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DACH Supersonic September 6, 2018 Share September 6, 2018 (edited) Well, you haven't address how the enforcement to be done. We need detail plan. Not sweeping statements. With surrender and reimbursement, are we raiding reserves? With your suggested ban. you are killing merchants. That's an undeniable facts. Will merchants be compensated for surrendered device? With so many to device to be exported, where to export to? Any assistance to be rendered? 斷人衣食猶如殺人父母。 Lastly, is there safety standards on battery? Like I have said, give a deadline for the users and merchants to surrender. By deadline they don't surrender, they will be confiscated immediately if they are caught using it in the public. The police, TP, LTA, NEA, etc will be the ones catching these errant users if they spot all these errant users. particulars will be taken down and a letter for the fine will be sent to them. Or outsource as suggested by some members. Raiding reserves? What does the taxes of COE, petrol taxes, GST, incomes taxes do? If surrender and reimbursement can benefit both the public and users and merchants making wrong decisions using these devices and in the long term create a public good to make pavements safe for anyone, why not? Better than waste money and spending on resources in enforcements that are weak and hard to trace. Killing merchants? There is a time frame for them to get rid of their unsold stock and yes, they will be compensated to a certain limit if they cannot get rid of all their unsold stocks to overseas or whatever means before the deadline. With these enforcement now, they should even start to stop selling these devices now and sell those solely for medically certified use for users with disabilities only and bicycles to diversify their business. They are given time to compensate and restructure their business. When drugs are banned, why do you still import drugs to sell knowing they will be banned? It is your responsibility to understand the rules and enforcement to be enacted on the products you are selling. If the item is banned and you insist on selling, you are yourself to blame. It goes the same when firecrackers and chewing gums are banned and even for sisha shops. They don't even have the compensations that is suggested. If there are no safety standards for batteries for PMDs, that says so much of the enforcement for these devices. They can't be bothered. So back to the first point. Just ban them if they can't be bothered. I'm not sure what kind of standards that is adopted here but this could be a guideline. https://spring.enterprisesg.gov.sg/Building-Trust/Raising-Confidence/FOR-SUPPLIERS/CPSR/Documents/CAB_Spore.pdf If firecrackers were not banned, your house probably burnt down by your neighbour playing with firecrackers. If chewing gum is not banned, you will probably stepped on discarded chewing gum on the floor. So need to let a PMD idiot knock you down, then you realise that banning them is better for all, especially since there are already so many cases of errant PMDs hurting people and causing nuisances, with many cases untraceable? Edited September 6, 2018 by DACH ↡ Advertisement 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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