Advice for accident

[Karoon]

I feel for you OP, but its quite common for accident victims to feel fine at scene and suffer pain the day after. Usually when the adrenaline subsides after a night sleep, and internal whiplash injury, so they may be telling the truth.

[Ricky_doodle]

https://www.google.com.sg/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=2ahUKEwj52tvjgqveAhWGNo8KHaROAO4QFjAAegQIChAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mycarforum.com%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcore%26module%3Dattach%26section%3Dattach%26attach_id%3D37765&usg=AOvVaw0AMhY1Pngx0L89d3gthg02

 

Scenario 7

After reading the TS first post again, I realized the other party is not contesting against this scenario at all...

 

He seems to be admitting to it, but wants to pressurize TS into saying the accident was the fault of his alleged high speed!

 

I am actually disgusted by the other party's behavior. It is exactly just like the case whereby the youngster was riding the e-scooter at high speed and hit an elderly man, and this youngster claimed that the elderly man would have survived if he was younger.

 

What kind of warped thinking is this?!?! What kind of human being are these?!?! Not at all remorseful nor repentant... Gosh...

Edited October 29, 2018 by Ricky_doodle

[Fitvip]

Since the case is with the traffic police, the other thing TS has to do is to report to his insurer. Just wait for the TP to call him for statement. In the mean time, there is nothing much he can do!

[t0y0ta]

After reading the TS first post again, I realized the other party is not contesting against this scenario at all...

 

He seems to be admitting to it, but wants to pressurize TS into saying the accident was the fault of his alleged high speed!

 

I am actually disgusted by the other party's behavior. It is exactly just like the case whereby the youngster was riding the e-scooter at high speed and hit an elderly man, and this youngster claimed that the elderly man would have survived if he was younger.

 

What kind of warped thinking is this?!?! What kind of human being are these?!?! Not at all remorseful nor repentant... Gosh...

 

That's life bro.... every driver out there is trying to chut pattern on others.

[t0y0ta]

Dear Sir/Madams, I finally bought a new car recently after years of working and saving up. However last week I had met with a car accident and had been traumatised by the accident. The accident was totally not my fault and the other driver whom is driving a rental is claiming 3rd party damages against my insurance. 

 

I was travelling on a major road going straight and the other driver was approaching from my left with STOP wording and DOUBLE BROKEN WHITE lines on the road. I did not drive fast but the driver just abruptly drove out from the left side and his top right bonnet crashed into my top left bonnet. He had a kid and wife in the car, where his wife claimed to be feeling unwell after the accident. Although I felt his wife was over-exaggerating but giving her the benefit of the doubt, we called in the Traffic Police and ambulance. 

 

I basically had the right of way and he just drove out without checking for oncoming traffic imo. He claimed that he checked for all blindspots and only drove out when the traffic from the right was clear. There was a tree blocing both of our views but how can the traffic be clear as per what he claimed.  But the other driver started scolding me that I was driving fast and could not stop in time to avoid him after the accident happened! He even asked me to write a letter stating that I am in wrong for the accident, which I did not write the letter. I told him that we should leave it up to the insurance companies to settle this matter.

 

I claimed 3rd party damages for my car against the rental car insurer as it was not my fault. A few days ago I received news from my insurer that the a 3rd party claim had been filed against my insurer. What I cannot believe is that the other driver is claiming injuries for his whole family(Other driver: spinal injury, Kid: Chest pain and bruise on forehead, Wife: Bruise and hip injury)! How can they do this? The cars were slightly damaged only! On the accident day, when the paramedics and TP asked the other driver and kid if they were alright on that day, they replied that they were alright. Only the wife was conveyed to hospital by ambulance. My insurer is putting a reserve amount of 20k SGD for this 3rd party claim pending investigation outcome. This is not right!

 

I am very unhappy about this matter and would like to seek advice on what I should do. I want to make sure I am not penalised and would not have to accept any liability for this accident.

 

Capture.JPG

 

What road junction is that?

 

Let us know then we can give you our more accurate opinion.

 

But generally this type of case - just leave it to insurance... high chance 50-50. Just be prepared to pay more (a lot more) for insurance subsequently. But seriously ANY problem that can be solved by money is NOT a problem lor.

 

Don't worry about the driver claiming his whole family going to die etc... he wants to be immoral thats his problem. Don't let it become an emotional burden for you. Karma will come.

 

And that guy is in deep shit probably... rental car the excess is high money. Hope that makes you feel better.

[Icetee168]

hi wjong 

since the TP is at the site, u should b advised by the TP to lodge a police report and after the report is made, u will received a letter from the TP within a week to a month time.

the letter will state the outcome of their investigation and as per you description the so called 'third party' did not check clear at the stop line b4 moving off, most likely he will b fine by the TP and u must forward the letter your insurance and without much hippcups you will b the one claming his insurance. So, do worry so much and at the mean time u might wanna give your investigating officer a call to check on the status of the case and at the same time provide videos of the accident or pictures of the accident to help him in his investigation...2 cents n good luck!

[Geoandre]

This is from past experience. As long as it was not a rear hit and there was no video footage or independent witness, it would be your word against his. The outcome would be apportioned liabilities to both parties. Whenever there is injury claim, the claim amount would be substantial. One thing for sure,  the other party will spare no mercy to inflate the claims & exaggerate on everything to push all liabilities to your side. You will have to prove these lies but unfortunately, it can be hard to prove in an accident without evidence and witness. To do damage control, you have to do the same......sigh. Regardless, you will definitely lose your NCD & affect your future insurance premium for the next three years. Don't think too much, let the insurance manages. The sad thing is the insurance appointed lawyer's priority is to close the case without going through a full trial. You have to live through this, this is a real world & there are bad hats. Tell yourself this is a good learning experience & be happy that you were not injured & a lot more worst could have happened. Drive carefully & safely.

Let me share some incidents, hopefully it will help to navigate better if any forum member happens to meet such events in the future.

 

1. TAXI

Long time ago. Travelling on the left lane when suddenly a taxi sped past on the right & before I could react, suddenly cut in into my lane & jammed brake to pick up a passenger(there was no such thing as car camera then). The damage was very minimal & my Jap car did not have any damage at all; couldn't even tell the scratch/dent was new or old as it was not a new cab. The cab driver started swearing & even took out a stick to threaten me. Warned me that as long as my car hit the rear, I must pay up. I was at a loss. Finally was made to compensate $50 for the 'damage' & it was quite a sum then. It was like daylight robbery.

 

2. DECENT-LOOKING GENTLEMAN

An MPV hit my relatively new conti car from the back. The MPV driver admitted fault & begged to settle privately, even used his baby as negotiating tool. Agreed to his request & was kind enough to repair/respray the bumper instead of changing to a new one just to help him to mitigate the cost. Weeks later after settlement; received a call from him, asking for my help to sign some paperwork. Drove down to his workplace, realised he had secretly filed a police report & was unable to renew his insurance policy due to pending case. What a jerk!

 

3. RELIGIOUS-LOOKING MOTOR-CYCLIST

Whilst turning into my workplace, a speeding power bike hit my car from the left back passenger door. It caused quite a damage. Until now, I have a phobia whenever making a left turn. Immediately tended to him & requested my company security officer to call the ambulance as the rider seemed to be in pain. Meanwhile I called the Police. Based on the positions of my car & the bike & the point of impact, the Traffic Police was certain the biker was speeding & at fault. The case was closed with a traffic summon & demerit points issued to the biker. Years later, I received notice from my insurance that the biker has filed claim for injuries, medical & loss of income etc. Cut the long story, the biker submitted a claim of over $60K! I wanted to proceed to trial as the pre-trial judge also agreed that the biker was at fault. However for whatever reason, the defending insurance lawyer insisted to settle & even agreed to pay 50% of the claim(which was >$30K). Upon my resistance & insistence & even threatened to call my insurer directly, both parties' lawyers finally settled at $12K. 

 

Have left out the details as would be too lengthy, hope this gives you a picture of the world out there. Have fun.

[Carbon82]

If based solely on the info and diagram provided by @wjong, I would say it is quite a clear cut case that the rental car is in the wrong (since he is coming out from a side road with stop sign). BUT there might be other factors to be considered. A few questions from me:

 

1) The main road has how many lanes, and which lane was TS car at while approaching the junction, and the collision happened on which lane? Any abrupt lane changing will put TS at disadvantage.

 

2) Did TS saw the car turning out from the side, when approaching the junction, and did TS slow down in anticipation that the car might dash out? I mentioned countless times here that insisting on one's right is an irresponsible act.

 

3) At what speed is TS traveling, before the impact? While the car coming out from the side is confirmed at fault for not keeping a proper look out, if TS is traveling at say 50 Km/h, he would have a higher of avoiding the car coming out from the side.

 

These are just some of the questions that could affect the apportioning of the liability. If TS is cleared of the above, then I would say the rental car have to take 100% liability, but anything else, it will be words against words, insurer against insurer, lawyer against lawyer.

Let me share some incidents, hopefully it will help to navigate better if any forum member happens to meet such events in the future.

 

1. TAXI

Long time ago. Travelling on the left lane when suddenly a taxi sped past on the right & before I could react, suddenly cut in into my lane & jammed brake to pick up a passenger(there was no such thing as car camera then). The damage was very minimal & my Jap car did not have any damage at all; couldn't even tell the scratch/dent was new or old as it was not a new cab. The cab driver started swearing & even took out a stick to threaten me. Warned me that as long as my car hit the rear, I must pay up. I was at a loss. Finally was made to compensate $50 for the 'damage' & it was quite a sum then. It was like daylight robbery.

 

2. DECENT-LOOKING GENTLEMAN

An MPV hit my relatively new conti car from the back. The MPV driver admitted fault & begged to settle privately, even used his baby as negotiating tool. Agreed to his request & was kind enough to repair/respray the bumper instead of changing to a new one just to help him to mitigate the cost. Weeks later after settlement; received a call from him, asking for my help to sign some paperwork. Drove down to his workplace, realised he had secretly filed a police report & was unable to renew his insurance policy due to pending case. What a jerk!

 

3. RELIGIOUS-LOOKING MOTOR-CYCLIST

Whilst turning into my workplace, a speeding power bike hit my car from the left back passenger door. It caused quite a damage. Until now, I have a phobia whenever making a left turn. Immediately tended to him & requested my company security officer to call the ambulance as the rider seemed to be in pain. Meanwhile I called the Police. Based on the positions of my car & the bike & the point of impact, the Traffic Police was certain the biker was speeding & at fault. The case was closed with a traffic summon & demerit points issued to the biker. Years later, I received notice from my insurance that the biker has filed claim for injuries, medical & loss of income etc. Cut the long story, the biker submitted a claim of over $60K! I wanted to proceed to trial as the pre-trial judge also agreed that the biker was at fault. However for whatever reason, the defending insurance lawyer insisted to settle & even agreed to pay 50% of the claim(which was >$30K). Upon my resistance & insistence & even threatened to call my insurer directly, both parties' lawyers finally settled at $12K. 

 

Have left out the details as would be too lengthy, hope this gives you a picture of the world out there. Have fun.

 

You have the right to stop insurer from dispersing the payout, and challenge the claim. I was involved in a chain collision close to 3 years back, have a video footage from my car cam (proving that my car is at a complete stop for a good 2 sec before been hit by a speeding lorry from behind), and yet the other party's insurer insisted that bear 40% of the liability (1st letter), I contested, it drop to 25%, I refused to sign the agreement, and it dropped further to 15% / 20% (I cannot remember the exact figure) and with a statement that if I refused again, it will be brought to court.

 

My insurer wanted me to agree and settle the case, which has been pending for close to 6 months, but I said I am prepared to go to court to fight the case.  About 3 weeks later, the final settlement came, and the other party's insurer agreed that they will accept full liability and pay the repair and damage cost in full.

 

Morale of the story: As long as you have a dash cam and you are very sure you are not at fault, stand firm and contest all the way. Insurers are a for profit organization, and anything within their ability (taking into consideration of P&L), they will just pay and move on, leaving us drivers with a "bad records". Not making money, raise premium next year!      

[wjong]

Thanks to all for your advice. I would also like to clarify that I am not only just complaining but also want to understand how to protect myself better in this case. I did have a dash cam but TP was not able to retrieve the video from my dash cam. That's why lesson learnt and I will get a better dash cam, where the one given free was not so good.

After reading the TS first post again, I realized the other party is not contesting against this scenario at all...

 

He seems to be admitting to it, but wants to pressurize TS into saying the accident was the fault of his alleged high speed!

 

I am actually disgusted by the other party's behavior. It is exactly just like the case whereby the youngster was riding the e-scooter at high speed and hit an elderly man, and this youngster claimed that the elderly man would have survived if he was younger.

 

What kind of warped thinking is this?!?! What kind of human being are these?!?! Not at all remorseful nor repentant... Gosh...

This was what happened. I saw the traffic police report made by the other party as the workshop I went to file 3rd party claims had bought the report from GIA. The other party claimed that he checked all blind spots and made sure that traffic was clear before moving out though. Of course, this was not true imo. How can it be true that the traffic is clear and I appeared out of no where. But nevertheless, I will be more careful from now on. I was not travelling fast though and he claimed I could not stop in time. Interesting thing is that there are no actual accident scene photos attached to the GIA reports. There are only photos of the damaged rental car after it was towed to workshop. Edited October 30, 2018 by wjong

[Ricky_doodle]

Thanks to all for your advice. I would also like to clarify that I am not only just complaining but also want to understand how to protect myself better in this case. I did have a dash cam but TP was not able to retrieve the video from my dash cam. That's why lesson learnt and I will get a better dash cam, where the one given free was not so good.

This was what happened. I saw the traffic police report made by the other party as the workshop I went to file 3rd party claims had bought the report from GIA. The other party claimed that he checked all blind spots and made sure that traffic was clear before moving out though. Of course, this was not true imo. How can it be true that the traffic is clear and I appeared out of no where. But nevertheless, I will be more careful from now on. I was not travelling fast though and he claimed I could not stop in time. Interesting thing is that there are no actual accident scene photos attached to the GIA reports. There are only photos of the damaged rental car after it was towed to workshop.

Since you do sound like you are pretty new to the motoring scene in Singapore, let me share with you one more possibility of your case, which is a staged accident.

 

I am in no way saying or confirming that is what happened in your case. All I am saying is, there have been such cases going on for decades and you might have possibly been in one.

 

Based on my understanding, a workshop that provides third party insurance claiming services will be able to recover all repair costs, as long as there is a claim. The costs will either come from the third party, or the owner of the car, if the owner is found liable. To all car insurance experts here, please advice if my knowledge is accurate.

 

Yes, you might think, why would someone be stupid enough to pull such stunts and endanger their lives, even with women and children on board? If you have been indeed caught in a staged accident, passengers on board are merely tools to inflate the claims.

 

For the same reason, you might also think why drug peddlers risk the death sentence? Because to them, they may be in a vulnerable position and feel that they have nothing to lose, therefore thinking the benefits outweigh the risk.

 

In my opinion, on top of getting a better camera, defensive driving has to be the next step. You have to stop thinking that once you have the right of way, the law will be on your side. The right of way is only important to the TP and maybe the insurance companies. On the roads, it is merely a guideline.

 

From now on, you probably need to change your thinking to how to avoid an accident, rather than how to win the case when you get into one. Why? Prevention is better than cure, and the insurance companies are not protective of us motorists. And now you experience first hand the hassle of the process when you get into one.

 

Be alert and ready for all possible scenarios like cyclists and e-scooters coming out of nowhere. Jaywalkers on expressways, falling trees and branches, collapsing bridges etc.. OK I am thinking too much, but I hope you get the drift..

 

I understand your frustration, especially since this sounds like your first unfortunate case and that you are rudely disturbed at what has happened. Learn from it, accept it and move on. Based on what another forum brother mentioned earlier, it is actually possible to reject the offer from the other party, which is new to me and I appreciate this new knowledge. But do note that the decision is entirely up to you, because further contesting the offer may lengthen the claim process further as there is dispute. Law suits take so much time because of dispute.

 

End the end of the day, once your insurer comes back to you with the offer, have a look at it, think through, seek advice here if you need clarification before you decide, but never NEVER accept full liability.

 

I am no saint myself, but having my fair share of hours of my life wasted when getting into such needless incidents, we have to make a choice on how to move forward. Give up driving totally, or drive with even more care than before.

 

The pathetic scene of motor insurance in Singapore is made more sorry with less than considerate, gracious and inconsiderate road users. We can only try not to be part of the scene as best as we can.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Ricky_doodle

[Karoon]

Let me share some incidents, hopefully it will help to navigate better if any forum member happens to meet such events in the future.

 

1. TAXI

Long time ago. Travelling on the left lane when suddenly a taxi sped past on the right & before I could react, suddenly cut in into my lane & jammed brake to pick up a passenger(there was no such thing as car camera then). The damage was very minimal & my Jap car did not have any damage at all; couldn't even tell the scratch/dent was new or old as it was not a new cab. The cab driver started swearing & even took out a stick to threaten me. Warned me that as long as my car hit the rear, I must pay up. I was at a loss. Finally was made to compensate $50 for the 'damage' & it was quite a sum then. It was like daylight robbery.

 

2. DECENT-LOOKING GENTLEMAN

An MPV hit my relatively new conti car from the back. The MPV driver admitted fault & begged to settle privately, even used his baby as negotiating tool. Agreed to his request & was kind enough to repair/respray the bumper instead of changing to a new one just to help him to mitigate the cost. Weeks later after settlement; received a call from him, asking for my help to sign some paperwork. Drove down to his workplace, realised he had secretly filed a police report & was unable to renew his insurance policy due to pending case. What a jerk!

 

3. RELIGIOUS-LOOKING MOTOR-CYCLIST

Whilst turning into my workplace, a speeding power bike hit my car from the left back passenger door. It caused quite a damage. Until now, I have a phobia whenever making a left turn. Immediately tended to him & requested my company security officer to call the ambulance as the rider seemed to be in pain. Meanwhile I called the Police. Based on the positions of my car & the bike & the point of impact, the Traffic Police was certain the biker was speeding & at fault. The case was closed with a traffic summon & demerit points issued to the biker. Years later, I received notice from my insurance that the biker has filed claim for injuries, medical & loss of income etc. Cut the long story, the biker submitted a claim of over $60K! I wanted to proceed to trial as the pre-trial judge also agreed that the biker was at fault. However for whatever reason, the defending insurance lawyer insisted to settle & even agreed to pay 50% of the claim(which was >$30K). Upon my resistance & insistence & even threatened to call my insurer directly, both parties' lawyers finally settled at $12K.

 

Have left out the details as would be too lengthy, hope this gives you a picture of the world out there. Have fun.

Hi Geoandre

 

Sorry dont mean to hijack thread but u and a few others seem to be experienced with such cases here.

 

My dad's car got involved in an accident with a company pick-up. Both vehicles were total wrecks (everyone uninjured miraculously).TP concluded the pick-up to be 100% at fault and reckless. Driver is foreign worker. Now the best part... when claiming against the pick-up's insurer, the insurer claimed the pick-up is not roadworthy and shouldn't be on the road, and hence they absolve themselves from the accident. My dad's stuck having to claim from his own insurer though he's not at fault. I'm not sure if this is a dick move by the insurer or legit... how does my dad then proceed to get other claims... eg temporary replacement car..insurer vs insurer, or does he have to go to court and claim against the company owning the pick-up?

We feel going to court will just be too taxing for the common man and will benefit the company and their insurer. It seems like a get-out clause by insurers... just claim the insured violate terms and wash hands and let the other innocent party sort it out.

[Leo72]

Hi Geoandre

 

Sorry dont mean to hijack thread but u and a few others seem to be experienced with such cases here.

 

My dad's car got involved in an accident with a company pick-up. Both vehicles were total wrecks (everyone uninjured miraculously).TP concluded the pick-up to be 100% at fault and reckless. Driver is foreign worker. Now the best part... when claiming against the pick-up's insurer, the insurer claimed the pick-up is not roadworthy and shouldn't be on the road, and hence they absolve themselves from the accident. My dad's stuck having to claim from his own insurer though he's not at fault. I'm not sure if this is a dick move by the insurer or legit... how does my dad then proceed to get other claims... eg temporary replacement car..insurer vs insurer, or does he have to go to court and claim against the company owning the pick-up?

We feel going to court will just be too taxing for the common man and will benefit the company and their insurer. It seems like a get-out clause by insurers... just claim the insured violate terms and wash hands and let the other innocent party sort it out.

Pick-up need to go for inspection annually and every 6-months if the pick-up is more than 10 years old. So how do the pick-up pass the inspection in the first place if it's not road-worthy. Write to MAS, TP, LTA and GIA with the black and white from the insurer claiming that the pick-up is not road worthy and the authority should take action against the company who own the pick-up and maybe the inspection centre who let the pick-up passed the inspection if the pick-up passed the inspection 1 to 2 weeks before the accident. At least get some justice done even if cannot claim from the other party insurance.

 

Your dad will have no choice but to claim his own insurance to repair the car first and should the insurer of the pick-up decided to back down on their claim or the authority step in to order the insurer to honour the claim, the own damage claim will be withdrawn.

[inlinesix]

Forget about GIA.

 

GIA is to protect insurer.

[wjong]

I feel for you. Hope people will give you good advice on how to proceed to protect your father's rights.

 

Hi Geoandre

Sorry dont mean to hijack thread but u and a few others seem to be experienced with such cases here.

My dad's car got involved in an accident with a company pick-up. Both vehicles were total wrecks (everyone uninjured miraculously).TP concluded the pick-up to be 100% at fault and reckless. Driver is foreign worker. Now the best part... when claiming against the pick-up's insurer, the insurer claimed the pick-up is not roadworthy and shouldn't be on the road, and hence they absolve themselves from the accident. My dad's stuck having to claim from his own insurer though he's not at fault. I'm not sure if this is a dick move by the insurer or legit... how does my dad then proceed to get other claims... eg temporary replacement car..insurer vs insurer, or does he have to go to court and claim against the company owning the pick-up?
We feel going to court will just be too taxing for the common man and will benefit the company and their insurer. It seems like a get-out clause by insurers... just claim the insured violate terms and wash hands and let the other innocent party sort it out.

Dear all, can I check if a 3rd party claim involves of injury claims. That party whom claimed injuries need to provide medical proof that they indeed suffer injuries. It is not only about just making a claim during reporting right? Please advise. Edited October 30, 2018 by wjong

[inlinesix]

 

I feel for you. Hope people will give you good advice on how to proceed to protect your father's rights.

 

 

 

Dear all, can I check if a 3rd party claim involves of injury claims. That party whom claimed injuries need to provide medical proof that they indeed suffer injuries. It is not only about just making a claim during reporting right? Please advise.

Usually medical report is attached

[wjong]

Usually medical report is attached

 

Oh. Attached where?

[inlinesix]

Oh. Attached where?

Medical claims.

[wjong]

Medical claims.

 

Ok noted. I do not see any medical reports attached to the other party's insurance report.