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#1

Posted 03 November 2018 - 05:37 PM

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SINGAPORE: A Singapore Armed Forces (SAF) full-time national serviceman died on Saturday (Nov 3) after he was involved in a vehicular incident at Jalan Murai training area. 
 
Private (PTE) Liu Kai, 22, a transport operator from the SAF’s Transport Hub West was operating a Land Rover as part of a field training exercise when a Bionix vehicle reversed into his vehicle. 
 
He lost consciousness and was attended to immediately by the on-site medic, said the Ministry of Defence (MINDEF) in a news release. 
 
The SAF Emergency Ambulance Service and the Singapore Civil Defence Force (SCDF) were activated at 10.17am and were on-site at 10.30am, said the release. 
 
PTE Liu succumbed to his injuries and was pronounced dead by the medical officers at around 10.35am.
 
"Police investigations are ongoing and an independent Committee of Inquiry (COI) will be convened to investigate the circumstances leading to the incident," said MINDEF. 
 
 
"The army has declared an army-wide safety timeout on training with immediate effect, to ensure all appropriate safety measures are in place.
 
"The army is rendering assistance and support to the family of the late PTE Liu during this period of grief." 
 
 
 
Another case...  [smallcry]  RIP... Son of Singapore

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#2

Posted 03 November 2018 - 06:00 PM

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Just heard of an accident involving one fatality.

https://www.channeln...bionix-10894276

Sungei Gedong training area?

Edited by Count-Bracula, 03 November 2018 - 06:02 PM.

Me Newcastle fan

#3

Posted 03 November 2018 - 06:16 PM

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Again another totally avoidable accident based on story reported.  Likely no one was guiding the Bionix when reversing, contrary to TSR.

 

RIP to the victim.


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#4

Posted 03 November 2018 - 06:33 PM

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Whenever a news like this come up, I don't dare to talk to my wife about it. In a few years time will be my son's turn to enlist [:(]


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#5

Posted 03 November 2018 - 06:36 PM

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Cannot stop at all. I am sure another fatality will occur again. Their mentality and culture cannot be changed by a few men being found guilty and thrown in jail


Sad but true, you are right.
Me Newcastle fan

#6

Posted 03 November 2018 - 06:59 PM

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Sad but true, you are right.

Another death. Just read the news it involve an armour vehicle. It reverse into a land rover

#7

Posted 03 November 2018 - 07:35 PM

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In an admin move, vehicle movement must always be guided by a ground guide. All reverse must double tap horn and down with a ground guide in reverse.

In a tactical move the vehicle shall not move or reverse unless guided by vehicle commander(VC) looking at the rear from the vehicle turret.

This incident might be a tactical move as they are training.


There might be other non human factors like VC cannot see the lower height vehicle or static and lag in internal comms system between driver and VC which is common while operating an armor vehicle.

But there are also SOP for rovers and jeeps not to drive too near or park behind an armor vehicle within x meters. Is it the rover driver or his VC decision to stay behind the bionix?

Let's wait for COI before speculating too much..

Edited by Pocus, 03 November 2018 - 07:38 PM.

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#8

Posted 03 November 2018 - 07:58 PM

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Just heard of an accident involving one fatality.

https://www.channeln...bionix-10894276

Sungei Gedong training area?

 

wah lan, VC prepare to wash backside clean clean go in DB liao


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"O, devil, devil! If that the Earth could teem with woman's tears, Each drop she falls would prove a crocodile. Out of my sight!" (Act IV Scene I)

#9

Posted 03 November 2018 - 09:25 PM

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What's the current compensation package a for training deaths??

#10

Posted 03 November 2018 - 09:35 PM

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Again another totally avoidable accident based on story reported. Likely no one was guiding the Bionix when reversing, contrary to TSR.

RIP to the victim.

The story seem to suggest the rover is not organic to the armour unit, may even be new driver just got license never even seen .. let alone operated with armoured vehicles before.
Also no mention of rover vehicle commander who is suppose to be in command.

Operationally on the ground, mixed units working close together is complicated.

#11

Posted 03 November 2018 - 10:41 PM

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Haaaaiiizzzz
Rip
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#12

Posted 03 November 2018 - 10:44 PM

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Haiizzzz
Rip

#13

Posted 03 November 2018 - 11:37 PM

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Whenever in doubt, just take MC.
That is all.

#14

Posted 03 November 2018 - 11:39 PM

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Whenever in doubt, just take MC.

You think so easy to take mc in saf?

#15

Posted 03 November 2018 - 11:52 PM

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You think so easy to take mc in saf?

Yeah.. the doctor who complained about saf.
Hopefully he ORD already. Won't get fixed

#16

Posted 04 November 2018 - 12:26 AM

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What's the current compensation package a for training deaths??

 

https://sso.agc.gov....&ProvIds=P1IV-.



#17

Posted 04 November 2018 - 04:48 AM

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https://sso.agc.gov....&ProvIds=P1IV-.

(b) in the case of a member who is on full-time national service, or is serving as an operationally ready national serviceman or a volunteer, a gratuity of an amount that is not less than 12 months’ monthly gross salary of a member in regular service of equivalent rank;


Personally.. Think it's pathetic.
All sorts of million dollar jobs MUST be found for retiring generals, they should do better for dead nsf.
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#18

Posted 04 November 2018 - 07:58 AM

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This gratuity structure is thinly veiled discrimination in more ways than one.... 

 

1) Look at the pay difference between a corporal vs a colonel (not even bringing in the stratospheric general's pay), does it mean that a corporal's life is worth less than a colonel's life?

 

2) Who is more likely to die in the course of serving the nation? The corporal who are on the ground training, operating heavy war machines, diving, parachuting, abseiling OR the colonel sitting in the meeting room, war room, field command centres?

 

3) There are NS men who earn more than the regular colonels in their civilian life but when they return to serve reservist, they are corporal ranked pay.

 

 

This is going to further irk the many SAF fans around here in the forum (you know who you are) but I am still going to say it:

 

- Regulars signed on to the armed forces voluntarily knowing the risk and benefits. Their pay and benefits already factored that in these risks. The dangers should be considered as an occupational hazard/death and like wise for the pay out

 

- NSF/NSmens have but no choice to serve out the NS liability. They made much sacrifice to serve the nation. Any death or permanent disability should be assessed and compensated at a level above that of regulars.

 

- Any death payout should be factor into the total annual bonus dispensed out to the regulars/MINDEF. Even if it is just a 0.1% reduction in the bonus will remind all these regulars/staff that training safety and protocols should be updated and enforced at all levels ALL the time. The NSF are only in the system for less than 2 yrs and the NSmen are back in the system 2-4 weeks out of a year. 

 

 

(b) in the case of a member who is on full-time national service, or is serving as an operationally ready national serviceman or a volunteer, a gratuity of an amount that is not less than 12 months’ monthly gross salary of a member in regular service of equivalent rank;


Personally.. Think it's pathetic.
All sorts of million dollar jobs MUST be found for retiring generals, they should do better for dead nsf.

 


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#19

Posted 04 November 2018 - 08:56 AM

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You think so easy to take mc in saf?

No need to think. It can only be easier since I was conscripted more than ten years ago.

Will there be commanders who try to trick you to abandon your rights? Sure. That's why you gotta know your rights in the first place and be willing to push back.

Edited by Kusje, 04 November 2018 - 08:56 AM.

That is all.

#20

Posted 04 November 2018 - 09:01 AM

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This gratuity structure is thinly veiled discrimination in more ways than one....

1) Look at the pay difference between a corporal vs a colonel (not even bringing in the stratospheric general's pay), does it mean that a corporal's life is worth less than a colonel's life?

2) Who is more likely to die in the course of serving the nation? The corporal who are on the ground training, operating heavy war machines, diving, parachuting, abseiling OR the colonel sitting in the meeting room, war room, field command centres?

3) There are NS men who earn more than the regular colonels in their civilian life but when they return to serve reservist, they are corporal ranked pay.


This is going to further irk the many SAF fans around here in the forum (you know who you are) but I am still going to say it:

- Regulars signed on to the armed forces voluntarily knowing the risk and benefits. Their pay and benefits already factored that in these risks. The dangers should be considered as an occupational hazard/death and like wise for the pay out

- NSF/NSmens have but no choice to serve out the NS liability. They made much sacrifice to serve the nation. Any death or permanent disability should be assessed and compensated at a level above that of regulars.

- Any death payout should be factor into the total annual bonus dispensed out to the regulars/MINDEF. Even if it is just a 0.1% reduction in the bonus will remind all these regulars/staff that training safety and protocols should be updated and enforced at all levels ALL the time. The NSF are only in the system for less than 2 yrs and the NSmen are back in the system 2-4 weeks out of a year.

👏👍 well said.

Another pet peeve of mine, why the fish must nsf fork out for additional insaurance?? Use the fxxking national reserve to pay if need be, it ain't going anywhere and you CANNOT find a more worthy cause. the amount is minuscule really.

In non- war situations, any NSF training deaths should be paid more by the state, how many deaths a year? If we take 3, than say 3 million a year set aside yearly as sinking funds?
Can play money games with TC, ministers salary, YOG, renaming marina as marina etc.. no excuses. Bloody he'll... use the funds we spend on ft free scholarships, they run home more often than nsf die anyway right?..

And I am someone who actually support ns..
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