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Full-time national serviceman dies after accident with Bionix during training 03 Nov 18


Raubern
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By right such veh reverse must have one guide go down and guide.

 

 

in real war, do they need someone to guid when reversing

 

 

 

 

i am assuming they needed to train to reverse without someone standing behind to guide, otherwise in real life war alot of friendly forces would be flattened.

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in real war, do they need someone to guid when reversing

 

 

 

 

i am assuming they needed to train to reverse without someone standing behind to guide, otherwise in real life war alot of friendly forces would be flattened.

 

This is the irony of it. SAF is already supposed to be very kiasu/kiasi, but still accidents happen...

 

30 yr ago, we went Ex Crescendo, when i was in Engineer (before i was posted to Armour), we attended some lessons on land mines conducted by the Thais. They showed us mines-like stuff during the lesson, which was conducted in a field in Saiyok camp. The camp was big, with the bunks about 100 m from the main road, running parallel to it. A long long field (of that 100 m depth) separated the bunks from the main road.

 

The thais just arranged benches in the middle of the open field, then conducted the lessons there.

 

In SG, our lessons would show dummies only.

 

They didn't tell us what they showed us, except that those were what were used in the Thai/Cambodia border where there was still some fightings going on at that time.

 

Then after that session, when they were talking about something else, one of the Thais quietly moved all the stuff they showed us to about 100 m away from where we gathered. We didn't notice this as he did it. Then shortly afterwards, there was a sound of explosion, which must have been quite loud as it was clearly audible in the open area. Only then did the Thais tell us those were live mines, and they blew them off after the demo to us  [sweatdrop] They were very non-chalant about it all.

 

We did not take cover cos we didn't even know it was coming.

 

In SG, TSR would say cannot use live explosives for lessons.

Then if wanna set them off, will have to be like take cover 50 m away and behind bunkers, with everybody wearing helmets, etc.

 

Those thais who conducted the lessons, served tours at the front line before, while we SG 'A' Level students were waiting to go unis. Such was the different norms.

 

It is not difficult to predict who can adapt better should there by a real war.

 

Yet, despite our KS101, as you know, there are still accidents now and then...

 

 

I think Chief Armour Officer this year 犯太岁 [sweatdrop]

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By right such veh reverse must have one guide go down and guide.

By right, if all the training follow TSR strictly, very hard for any accident or death to happen.

 

but dun talk about follow strictly,

how many of those commander can actually pass TSR test on their on without cheating /copying.

 

when u want to follow TSR strictly u will realise training cannot be completed on time.

rebook or training ground is 1 issue, many units waiting,

soldiers only have 2 years to complete all the trainings.

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I only remembered that during my OCS triservice (or was it MO conversion course...too long ago :D ) that I had to mug the TSR like crazy and the passing standard was more than 50% (maybe 70-80%).

 

TSR is and should be updated regularly. Officers should be forced to keep themself up to date and take a yearly test to keep their memory fresh and updated on the latest revision of TSR.

 

 

By right, if all the training follow TSR strictly, very hard for any accident or death to happen.

 

but dun talk about follow strictly,

how many of those commander can actually pass TSR test on their on without cheating /copying.

 

when u want to follow TSR strictly u will realise training cannot be completed on time.

rebook or training ground is 1 issue, many units waiting,

soldiers only have 2 years to complete all the trainings.

 

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I only remembered that during my OCS triservice (or was it MO conversion course...too long ago :D ) that I had to mug the TSR like crazy and the passing standard was more than 50% (maybe 70-80%).

 

TSR is and should be updated regularly. Officers should be forced to keep themself up to date and take a yearly test to keep their memory fresh and updated on the latest revision of TSR.

there is alot of new stuff to enhance safety.

eg before any ex' commander need do risk accessment etc etc .

 

the point  is all this stuff is do for show and wayang to cover backside.

all the riskment accesment is just copy sign and file up , thats it.

 

most man/trainee when they wear helmet  ,

they cannot think already , u say charge they just charge.

how safe training are conducted is really up to those junior commanders . PC. PS .SGTs

 

i remember last time OCS got a accident ,

MG live firing finish didnt check clear,

resting time, 1 round went off and kill a trainee.

its this type of small small every day stuff that ppl take for granted and get soldiers killed.

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It's the same with workplace safety. The organization and the heads/top people must have their priority and focus right.

 

If every time a safety incident or near miss  is reported but was just given cursory attention without any much further tightening of safety standards or the top people coming down to the ground to make sure they mean business, the injury/life lost is even more insulting to the families of the lost ones as it meant that the precious live was wasted.

 

With life lost under their charge, 1 star/2 star generals still get their bonus and cushy retirement jobs at the end of their stint. But well, I guess they learn from the best: PAP. 

 

It's never their fault.

 

there is alot of new stuff to enhance safety.

eg before any ex' commander need do risk accessment etc etc .

 

the point  is all this stuff is do for show and wayang to cover backside.

all the riskment accesment is just copy sign and file up , thats it.

 

most man/trainee when they wear helmet  ,

they cannot think already , u say charge they just charge.

how safe training are conducted is really up to those junior commanders . PC. PS .SGTs

 

i remember last time OCS got a accident ,

MG live firing finish didnt check clear,

resting time, 1 round went off and kill a trainee.

its this type of small small every day stuff that ppl take for granted and get soldiers killed.

 

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there is alot of new stuff to enhance safety.

eg before any ex' commander need do risk accessment etc etc .

 

the point  is all this stuff is do for show and wayang to cover backside.

all the riskment accesment is just copy sign and file up , thats it.

 

most man/trainee when they wear helmet  ,

they cannot think already , u say charge they just charge.

how safe training are conducted is really up to those junior commanders . PC. PS .SGTs

 

i remember last time OCS got a accident ,

MG live firing finish didnt check clear,

resting time, 1 round went off and kill a trainee.

its this type of small small every day stuff that ppl take for granted and get soldiers killed.

 

 

isn't there a safety officer

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Aiya, in our daily life day to day activities also got a lot of risk. Got TSR or not?

Only risk assessment. Anyone bother to go read or not? Nope.

I think it's even worse in working life. The things you see how ppl do them.

 

Who will see things/accidents coming?

 

All will be thinking,"not so suay wan lah". [laugh]

It's after sh!t happens dan ppl start to take precaution but after that ppl forget and it starts all over again.

 

Life is like that.

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isn't there a safety officer

safety officer is to make sure all the safety stuff is being done ma,

like medic is there, got safety rovers, 

conduct safety brifing etc

 

the actual check/work on the ground is alway done by junior commanders

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Hopefully it is not like the SCDF ragging.......those who are at the ground got jailed.....but no one really ask who is the one on top that did not do enough to stamp out ragging? He still sit there song song collect year end bonus.

 

 

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I do not know about SCDF but in the SAF, the top people are always well protected, no matter whether they are directly or indirectly related to any death of a soldier. The top means COL and above rank. 

Hopefully it is not like the SCDF ragging.......those who are at the ground got jailed.....but no one really ask who is the one on top that did not do enough to stamp out ragging? He still sit there song song collect year end bonus.

 

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Turbocharged

If there was previously such accident, no newspaper report before about this leh

 

maybe still too young

That one we couldn't verify but it made sense.

We were manning traffic checkpoints in the field, and many different types of vehicles were involved.

At night especially it could be chaotic. Won't be surprised some blur cuckoo gone out of the route and into bushes where people might be resting

Edited by Solar
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That one we couldn't verify but it made sense.

We were manning traffic checkpoints in the field, and many different types of vehicles were involved.

At night especially it could be chaotic. Won't be surprised some blur cuckoo gone out of the route and into bushes where people might be resting

Worse is drivers not getting enough sleep and rest in this type of ops. When accident happens, drivers get the blame
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Worse is drivers not getting enough sleep and rest in this type of ops. When accident happens, drivers get the blame

 

sleep ? rest ? 

 

I drove the bladdy sm1 in Thailand from 8pm to 2am ! STEAM !! Icing on the cake ?? My NVD kaput. Drive purely on commander's commands. 

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Safety isn't about doing extra things or not doing anything, but knowing and doing what needs to be done. Most of us were not trained to be experts, even if anyone failed the course he would still magically pass on the last day to pass out. Is it still like that now ?

 

Some things yes, this could be true.

 

but some more critical ones, at least it's not.

 

we had one case where our men were undergoing a conversion course, and we had a live mine arming exercise. Morning was dry run, and afternoon would be the real thing.

 

one of the men (they are called pioneers) apparently had phobia of explosive. He was sweating profusely, his body was trembling, and he was tearing, when going through the drill in the morning using the blue dummies.

 

we highlighted this to the conducting and supervising officers, and he was taken off it, for everybody's safety. And he was subsequently posted out to be a medic.

 

Till today also dunno whether he was acting or not though [sweatdrop]

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sleep ? rest ?

 

I drove the bladdy sm1 in Thailand from 8pm to 2am ! STEAM !! Icing on the cake ?? My NVD kaput. Drive purely on commander's commands.

That's the bloody culture when I was in the army. I can tell you these idiots at the top will never change. That's why soldiers keep on dying in peace time training

 

We are not fighting a war. Nvd down? Stop the vehicle. Why risk people lives and push on ?

Edited by RogerNg_185295
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Worse is drivers not getting enough sleep and rest in this type of ops. When accident happens, drivers get the blame

 

Apart from TSR, the commanders should also exercise good judgement.

 

during ex wallaby, i saw my driver drove so many hours. the rest of us just take turns behind - one person be vehicle commander, the rest coma...

so at some point, i told my driver i take over, asked him go and coma. my 2ic also shared the load.

we all came back in one piece.

i think my driver was very lucky. [laugh]

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Apart from TSR, the commanders should also exercise good judgement.

 

during ex wallaby, i saw my driver drove so many hours. the rest of us just take turns behind - one person be vehicle commander, the rest coma...

so at some point, i told my driver i take over, asked him go and coma. my 2ic also shared the load.

we all came back in one piece.

i think my driver was very lucky. [laugh]

Me and you are lucky. Not all soldiers have the good fortune. Why need to push people so hard? It's only peace time training.

 

If someone dies, saf will investigate etc and wayang. Then it happens again, then investigate again.

 

Why i say wayang? Cos after investigate another soldier will die.

 

Worse is you cannot sue saf

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