Aloysius Pang dies after SAF trg Ex in New Zealand

[Tianmo]

This I also saw before. It's the absense of a regular. So they pick someone to promote and make him fit the role.

 

I'm talking about those still in private rank. They should get LCP before they ord but the manpower branch you know...

 

They should get their LCP rank allowance but didn't have that chance. In ICT the possibilty to get more promotion is always possible.

 

 

At one point when the regular sign up rate was low, they tried to balance it by making the NS men role and ranks similar to that of regulars. That was when the promotion of NSmen started very quickly.  Before that promotion of NSmen was never heard of, the OC, 2IC and all PCs were all LTA, and the CO mostly CPT. 

 

It was after that exercise that we started seeing Commanders of NS units promoted and wearing the same rank as active commanders. It is not that they picked some NS men to promote in the absent of regulars. They did it on purpose to balance the image and responsibilities of the NS units. 

 

Between a private and a LCP, that is a PFC (private first class), not every men ORD as LCP. All the balance private in my unit was promoted to PFC 3 months before we went ORD. In other words, no one ORD as a private, but not true that they sld ORD as LCP. 

[Spring]

Some of the others were outright killed by the commanders (smoke grenade, etc).

 

Narrative for this one seems to be pushing towards Pang's own fault.

 

BTW, the commando drowning years ago, was the regular promoted?

Not sure about the commando but yes underlying could be several reasons ranging from Pang’s fault to being NS man or even being killed by other’s fault so your guess is as good as mine.

Another guess is that the others were NSF so they were promoted the rank that they would otherwise have gotten if they didn't die before the ORDed.

 

Whereas Pang is an NSmen who wouldn't have been promoted further.

[Beregond]

At one point when the regular sign up rate was low, they tried to balance it by making the NS men role and ranks similar to that of regulars. That was when the promotion of NSmen started very quickly.  Before that promotion of NSmen was never heard of, the OC, 2IC and all PCs were all LTA, and the CO mostly CPT. 

 

It was after that exercise that we started seeing Commanders of NS units promoted and wearing the same rank as active commanders. It is not that they picked some NS men to promote in the absent of regulars. They did it on purpose to balance the image and responsibilities of the NS units. 

 

Between a private and a LCP, that is a PFC (private first class), not every men ORD as LCP. All the balance private in my unit was promoted to PFC 3 months before we went ORD. In other words, no one ORD as a private, but not true that they sld ORD as LCP. 

i feel our army biggest problem is promotion too fast.

other country a 3sgt is a super big fuk.

to get a staff, u need to go through real shit.

 

here we are producing commander spec n officer like a production factory.

got quantity, but no quality at all.

 

i myself is a good example....

by the time i learn my trade as a ps i ord.

when i know how to be a proper csm, i mr...

[Tianmo]

Not even talking about that. Right now just discussing what the estab allows. Let's say all those recruited are super competent and can handle all the roles in the tours you mentioned.

 

With 3 SC folks fighting for 1 PS position, how?

 

There is no hard and fast rule that the next step up from a SC is a PS, that is just the command tour part of duty. There are many other positions to be filled, roles rotation or even change of vocations. If you die die want to be PS after  you finish your SC tour, well thats not going to be how the system works.

 

the 3 SC may be rotated to other duties, one may or mayb all may not be PS, it depends on their qualification and performance during their tour of duty. It is the real world, where some will move up, some will move out. 

 

Its the same every where, have to learn to live with it.

[Tianmo]

The Chief of Naval Logistics was LTC rank. He say he only a storeman. Funny guy, really a ppl person. Nice chap. Not in service liao.

 

 

CSTO  a COL, Head material branch  a LTC.

 

Technically speaking they all are also store man..    

[Tianmo]

must raise the pay of specs.

(if a regular specs pay can feed a family properly in sg, why not?)

they can be section commander, but it dun mean they cannot be promoted at the same time if performance is good.

(a sect com can be a 2nd or first sgt )

a ps can hold a staff rank . np at all.

 

give them proper training like oversea regular army.

 

in sg about 6mth u can be a spec and take mans for training.

(which i feel is totally too short, 

 

 

I think the Australia regular army has privates, LCP and CPL in the same platoon, and they get promoted just like we get promoted in private sectors.     

[Tianmo]

The example you gave earlier that fast promoting individual is working in some govt? Cos my PC has the similar promotion. But have to attend the relevant courses in order to get promoted too. He from PC promoted to brigade formation role. He's working in some govt agency. I told him he's very on. 

 

 

I not sure of the fellow from SC to recycled RSM, I think is an insurance agent or in finance sector. 

 

The officer whom went on to become MAJ (S3) is a lawyer in private sector, was a scholar and sword of honor receiver during his active days. 

 

And yah they have to go through the same course as the regulars to be promoted, so I guess if dont want just dont go.     

[L23]

i feel our army biggest problem is promotion too fast.

other country a 3sgt is a super big fuk.

to get a staff, u need to go through real shit.

 

here we are producing commander spec n officer like a production factory.

got quantity, but no quality at all.

 

i myself is a good example....

by the time i learn my trade as a ps i ord.

when i know how to be a proper csm, i mr...

 

In order to become a general, hearsay in other country, you need to be in a real war before you can get the rank.

Over here, hearsay again, getting a BG in a lighting year is possible though.

[Tianmo]

i feel our army biggest problem is promotion too fast.

other country a 3sgt is a super big fuk.

to get a staff, u need to go through real shit.

 

here we are producing commander spec n officer like a production factory.

got quantity, but no quality at all.

 

i myself is a good example....

by the time i learn my trade as a ps i ord.

when i know how to be a proper csm, i mr...

 

 

yah, I totally agree!!!     

 

Its just go through motion promotion so that you can compete the tour of duty. 

 

We had a scholar S3, he came to the unit as a major, same rank as our CO and CO was very nice to him. 6 months later he became CO of our sister unit, and was made LTC 1 yr later. I heard he was the first LTC CO, same rank as Brigade commander.     

[Kopites]

they promoted me 3 times throughout my reservist period until i mr but pay never go up

 

still storeman pay every time i go back

 

ðð¬

Army chief probably look at the manpower paper and scrap head....other he inflated his civilian claim or iras not informed...

 

Give iras a ring then..

[Mkl22]

i feel our army biggest problem is promotion too fast.

other country a 3sgt is a super big fuk.

to get a staff, u need to go through real shit.

 

here we are producing commander spec n officer like a production factory.

got quantity, but no quality at all.

 

i myself is a good example....

by the time i learn my trade as a ps i ord.

when i know how to be a proper csm, i mr...

 

ya lor.. 90% of generals in other countries all have white hair. only Singapore the opposite. 90% do not have.

[Daniu82]

Curious what's in his storeroom and what is his rank.

If want to see high ranking "storeman" probably G4 at hq. Most soldiers dont get to see. At most they see is S4.

 

[Ash2017]

Just heard parliament started a witch hunt for the service man/men to be prosecuted 

 

so many deaths within so few months, yet no minister/ministers in charge NOT called up to be accountable

 

 

 

I am deciding if I should kee chiu and stand-up

[Playtime]

Not sure about the commando but yes underlying could be several reasons ranging from Pangâs fault to being NS man or even being killed by otherâs fault so your guess is as good as mine.

 

Even if the died due to his own mistake.. at least he served. Which is much v much more than can be said for many in Singapore.. especially in parliament too.

 

Imo.. promote him .. he's being paid peanut dust in return for his life, already contributed.

The whole idea of NS is at stake in some ways.

[Blueray]

‘I am deeply sorry’: Ng Eng Hen on recent NS training deaths, vows accountability for every soldier

 

Read more at https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/sorry-ng-eng-hen-on-ns-training-deaths-accountability-soldier-11229210

[Playtime]

Hmmmm..

 

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/death-of-nsf-liu-kai-bionix-driver-continued-reversing-despite-11229302?cid=h3_referral_inarticlelinks_24082018_cna

 

Police?.. tot will be military.

[Ash2017]

https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/liu-kais-death-bionix-driver-did-not-hear-repeated-orders-stop-reversing

 

External Review Panel on SAF Safety (ERPSS)

The members of the External Review Panel on SAF Safety are:
Mr Heng Chiang Gnee [Chairman]
Director, MMA Offshore Ltd
Chairman, Workplace Safety and Health Council (Apr 2016 - Mar 2018)

 

Ms Kala Anandarajah
Partner, Head Competition and Antitrust and Trade, Rajah and Tann Singapore LLP.

 

Mr Chan Yew Kwong
Director (Special Duties), Occupational Safety and Health Division, Ministry of
Manpower

 

Mr Chia Ngiang Hong
Group General Manager, City Development Ltd

 

Associate Professor Chui Yoon Ping
Head of Programme (Human Factors in Safety), School of Science & Technology,
Singapore University of Social Sciences

 

Associate Professor Goh Yang Miang
Department of Building, School of Design and Environment, NUS

 

Brigadier-General (NS) Ishak Ismail
Director Business Development (Asia Pacific), BAE Systems Hagglunds AB

 

Associate Professor Lim Beng Chong
Division of Strategy, Management & Organisation, Nanyang Business School

 

Professor Lim Shih Hui
Senior Consultant Neurologist, National Neuroscience Institute & Singapore General
Hospital

 

Mr Ajay Mishra
Vice President Risk and Safety Management, SATS Ltd

 

Dr Jukka Takala
President, International Commission on Occupational Health (ICOH)

 

Mr Yam Ah Mee
Chief Executive Officer, SembCorp Design and Construction Pte Ltd

 

 

 

In my humble opinion the external panel on SAF Safety is really a joke.

 

You telling me eg Mr Yam Ah Mee has the intimate knowledge and independent understanding of the SOP of our specific military division, the short-comings of our land rover and Bionix, the weather condition that may affect transmission of commands etc

 

Majority are part of the establishment and are not truly independent.

 

 

 

 

My point is NOT to criticize our authorities BUT here is the greatest opportunity for them to make what was previous "wrong" right just before election BUT they have to waste it again.

 

Then again our public will accept it wholesale without doubts.

Edited February 11, 2019 by Ash2017

[BenTong]

 

https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/liu-kais-death-bionix-driver-did-not-hear-repeated-orders-stop-reversing

 

External Review Panel on SAF Safety (ERPSS)

 

The members of the External Review Panel on SAF Safety are:

Mr Heng Chiang Gnee [Chairman]

Director, MMA Offshore Ltd

Chairman, Workplace Safety and Health Council (Apr 2016 - Mar 2018)

 

Ms Kala Anandarajah

Partner, Head Competition and Antitrust and Trade, Rajah and Tann Singapore LLP.

 

Mr Chan Yew Kwong

Director (Special Duties), Occupational Safety and Health Division, Ministry of

Manpower

 

Mr Chia Ngiang Hong

Group General Manager, City Development Ltd

 

Associate Professor Chui Yoon Ping

Head of Programme (Human Factors in Safety), School of Science & Technology,

Singapore University of Social Sciences

 

Associate Professor Goh Yang Miang

Department of Building, School of Design and Environment, NUS

 

Brigadier-General (NS) Ishak Ismail

Director Business Development (Asia Pacific), BAE Systems Hagglunds AB

 

Associate Professor Lim Beng Chong

Division of Strategy, Management & Organisation, Nanyang Business School

 

Professor Lim Shih Hui

Senior Consultant Neurologist, National Neuroscience Institute & Singapore General

Hospital

 

Mr Ajay Mishra

Vice President Risk and Safety Management, SATS Ltd

 

Dr Jukka Takala

President, International Commission on Occupational Health (ICOH)

 

Mr Yam Ah Mee

Chief Executive Officer, SembCorp Design and Construction Pte Ltd

 

 

 

In my humble opinion the external panel on SAF Safety is really a joke.

 

You telling me eg Mr Yam Ah Mee has the intimate knowledge and independent understanding of the SOP of our specific military division, the short-comings of our land rover and Bionix, the weather condition that may affect transmission of commands etc

 

Majority are part of the establishment and are not truly independent.

 

 

 

 

My point is NOT to criticize our authorities BUT here is the greatest opportunity for them to make what was previous "wrong" right just before election BUT they have to waste it again.

 

Then again our public will accept it wholesale without doubts.

Very serious allagations u make.. Swee