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#1

Posted 16 April 2019 - 08:03 AM

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https://www.business...me-are-foolish/

 

Looks like the Nazi labour camp 

 

https://techcrunch.c...4/12/china-996/

 

 

 

Alibaba Group founder and billionaire Jack Ma again weighed in on the Chinese tech industry’s gruelling overtime work culture on Sunday, this time calling enforced long hours “unsustainable”.

Ma’s comment followed his remarks on Thursday that working overtime could be a “huge blessing” for young workers who found careers they were dedicated to.

He was responding to a debate that has emerged in recent weeks among Chinese tech workers over the 996 schedule, which means working 9am to 9pm, six days a week. Industry workers set up a discussion group called “996.ICU” on the code-sharing platform GitHub, suggesting that anyone working those hours all the time could end up in a hospital intensive care unit with burnout.

“If you find a job you like, the 996 problem does not exist; if you’re not passionate about it, every minute of going to work is a torment,” Ma said in a post on his Weibo account on Sunday.

 
 

“No one likes working at a company that forces you to do ‘996’. Not only is it inhumane, it’s unhealthy and even more unsustainable for long periods – plus workers, relatives and the law do not approve of it,” he said. “In the long term, even if you pay a higher salary, employees will all leave.”

Ma added that companies that thought they could profit by forcing staff to work overtime were “foolish” and doomed to fail.

But in a speech to Alibaba staff on Thursday, Ma said the company expected people to be ready to work 12 hours a day since it had huge commitments to its clients.

“If you don’t work 996 when you are young, when will you? Do you think never having to work 996 in your life is an honour to boast about?” he said in the speech. “If you don’t put out more time and energy than others, how can you achieve the success you want?”

In the Weibo post on Sunday, Ma said: “Real 996 should be spending time learning, thinking and for self-improvement. The people who stick to 996 must have found their passion there, and their happiness besides from money.”

Ma said he expected to be criticised for his views but he felt it was necessary to talk about the issue.

Some of the comments on Ma’s post criticised him as out of touch, and for having little regard for his workers. “Only talk of working hard, but silent on wages – this is typical language used by people who exploit others,” read one comment.

Many other Chinese tech giants have come under the spotlight for their intense corporate culture. Senior executives at Huawei, Baidu and JD.com have previously urged staff to increase their working hours, become dedicated “strivers” and embody a competitive, fearless “wolf spirit”.

Last week, a WeChat post attributed to JD.com founder Richard Liu Qiangdong, commenting on reports of the online retailer’s plan to sack underperformers, said he would not consider “slackers” as his “brothers”. He also called for colleagues to join him in striving for the company.

The ruling Communist Party’s mouthpiece also stepped into the debate later on Sunday, with a commentary in People’s Daily saying those who questioned 996 should not be “labelled”.

“Valuing hard work does not equate to forcing employees to work overtime,” the commentary said. “One should not attach the moral labels of ‘slackers’ or ‘not willing to strive’ to employees who are against 996.”

It also criticised the culture of mandatory overtime as unhealthy and inefficient.

 

*****

 

I believe SG is just a little behind in this with 10-10-5

 

The 996 dilemma

The 996 list is far from exhaustive as it comprises of voluntary entries from GitHub users. It’s also hard to nail down the average work hours at a firm, especially a behemoth with tens of thousands of employees where policies can differ across departments. For instance, it’s widely acknowledged that developers work longer than their peers in other units. Anecdotally, TechCrunch has heard that bosses in some organizations often find ways to exploit loopholes, such as setting unrealistic KPIs without explicitly writing 996 into employee contracts.

“While our company doesn’t force us into 996, sometimes, poor planning from upper management forces us to work long hours to meet arbitrary management deadlines,” a Beijing-based engineer at a professional networking site told TechCrunch. This person is one of many sources who spoke anonymously because they are not authorized to speak to media.


Edited by Sdf4786k, 16 April 2019 - 08:06 AM.

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#2

Posted 16 April 2019 - 08:12 AM

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https://www.business...me-are-foolish/

Looks like the Nazi labour camp

https://techcrunch.c...4/12/china-996/



Alibaba Group founder and billionaire Jack Ma again weighed in on the Chinese tech industryâs gruelling overtime work culture on Sunday, this time calling enforced long hours âunsustainableâ.

Maâs comment followed his remarks on Thursday that working overtime could be a âhuge blessingâ for young workers who found careers they were dedicated to.

He was responding to a debate that has emerged in recent weeks among Chinese tech workers over the 996 schedule, which means working 9am to 9pm, six days a week. Industry workers set up a discussion group called â996.ICUâ on the code-sharing platform GitHub, suggesting that anyone working those hours all the time could end up in a hospital intensive care unit with burnout.

âIf you find a job you like, the 996 problem does not exist; if youâre not passionate about it, every minute of going to work is a torment,â Ma said in a post on his Weibo account on Sunday.


[center]



âNo one likes working at a company that forces you to do â996â. Not only is it inhumane, itâs unhealthy and even more unsustainable for long periods â plus workers, relatives and the law do not approve of it,â he said. âIn the long term, even if you pay a higher salary, employees will all leave.â

Ma added that companies that thought they could profit by forcing staff to work overtime were âfoolishâ and doomed to fail.

But in a speech to Alibaba staff on Thursday, Ma said the company expected people to be ready to work 12 hours a day since it had huge commitments to its clients.

âIf you donât work 996 when you are young, when will you? Do you think never having to work 996 in your life is an honour to boast about?â he said in the speech. âIf you donât put out more time and energy than others, how can you achieve the success you want?â

In the Weibo post on Sunday, Ma said: âReal 996 should be spending time learning, thinking and for self-improvement. The people who stick to 996 must have found their passion there, and their happiness besides from money.â

Ma said he expected to be criticised for his views but he felt it was necessary to talk about the issue.

Some of the comments on Maâs post criticised him as out of touch, and for having little regard for his workers. âOnly talk of working hard, but silent on wages â this is typical language used by people who exploit others,â read one comment.

Many other Chinese tech giants have come under the spotlight for their intense corporate culture. Senior executives at Huawei, Baidu and JD.com have previously urged staff to increase their working hours, become dedicated âstriversâ and embody a competitive, fearless âwolf spiritâ.

Last week, a WeChat post attributed to JD.com founder Richard Liu Qiangdong, commenting on reports of the online retailerâs plan to sack underperformers, said he would not consider âslackersâ as his âbrothersâ. He also called for colleagues to join him in striving for the company.

The ruling Communist Partyâs mouthpiece also stepped into the debate later on Sunday, with a commentary in Peopleâs Daily saying those who questioned 996 should not be âlabelledâ.

âValuing hard work does not equate to forcing employees to work overtime,â the commentary said. âOne should not attach the moral labels of âslackersâ or ânot willing to striveâ to employees who are against 996.â

It also criticised the culture of mandatory overtime as unhealthy and inefficient.


*****


I believe SG is just a little behind in this with 10-10-5

The 996 dilemma
The 996 list is far from exhaustive as it comprises of voluntary entries from GitHub users. Itâs also hard to nail down the average work hours at a firm, especially a behemoth with tens of thousands of employees where policies can differ across departments. For instance, itâs widely acknowledged that developers work longer than their peers in other units. Anecdotally, TechCrunch has heard that bosses in some organizations often find ways to exploit loopholes, such as setting unrealistic KPIs without explicitly writing 996 into employee contracts.

âWhile our company doesnât force us into 996, sometimes, poor planning from upper management forces us to work long hours to meet arbitrary management deadlines,â a Beijing-based engineer at a professional networking site told TechCrunch. This person is one of many sources who spoke anonymously because they are not authorized to speak to media.
It's monetary serfdom.

I pay u, therefore u must 卖力 for me.
Well there's nothing wrong there cos the company must survive or be profitable or else where got salary to pay. And there are market forces deciding on a general basis, but not every worker will be able to maximise their advantage.
In a capitalistic society, that is the most efficient unequal system we have worked out.
But the govt has to have limits set to protect workers from being exploited.

The only way for this not to happen is if there are no such things as companies or corporations. Only organised collectives or Co ops based on socialist principles.
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#3

Posted 16 April 2019 - 08:13 AM

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Personally I do agree it is bad to allow individual or a company getting too big and monopolise the market. More smaller ones is preferred. Better spread, ideas and competition. 



#4

Posted 16 April 2019 - 08:30 AM

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It's monetary serfdom.

I pay u, therefore u must 卖力 for me.
Well there's nothing wrong there cos the company must survive or be profitable or else where got salary to pay. And there are market forces deciding on a general basis, but not every worker will be able to maximise their advantage.
In a capitalistic society, that is the most efficient unequal system we have worked out.
But the govt has to have limits set to protect workers from being exploited.

The only way for this not to happen is if there are no such things as companies or corporations. Only organised collectives or Co ops based on socialist principles.

 

I agree. But I disagree on the format of productivity tie to long hours.

 

Yes, it makes sense to put in long hours if its like emergency surgery.

 

No it does not make sense to stay late because the boss is having a prolong tiff with the spouse and hence put in long hours at the office and all the subordinate have to follow to keep her company.

 

If I will to flip it on the other side, working long hours and loyal to the company will result in the company taking a long term employment view of you going thru thick and thin, 

 

Or does it equates to 

 

You could have always choose to work for another company, now that times are bad, we need to switch to plan B and you are not "inclusive" enough in our plans as we going for diversity.

 

And you are paid for the job so dont make it as if the company took advantage of you.

 

+++++

 

My take is the working landscape has evolved so much that I cannot recognise the difference from working for a well establish modern and technological advance place to 

 

an effective Pimp where we sell our body to.

 

Yes, capitalism and all that. But even in a communist country, there is no such thing as sharing of equality to everyone .

 

Equitable, maybe but never fair and equal.



#5

Posted 16 April 2019 - 08:43 AM

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I believe SG is just a little behind in this with 10-10-5

 

ya  many of us easily hit 10 hrs.

 

when i was young, even sunday and public holiday i chiong abit.

 

it sound bad when he ask ppl to chiong long hours.

 

but if u yourself dun chiong when young and u struggle later u gonna question yourself,

 

why last time no 1 motivate me to chiong while i can ..


Edited by Beregond, 16 April 2019 - 08:44 AM.

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#6

Posted 16 April 2019 - 08:51 AM

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ya  many of us easily hit 10 hrs.

 

when i was young, even sunday and public holiday i chiong abit.

 

it sound bad when he ask ppl to chiong long hours.

 

but if u yourself dun chiong when young and u struggle later u gonna question yourself,

 

why last time no 1 motivate me to chiong while i can ..

 

I think its not about the relak one side mentality.

 

Chiong also need to have a reason to chiong. When I was 20 years younger, I also do some work from home just to catch up on the week day that had too much work.

 

BUT it was because of the damn book from jack welch that says, you have to work yor employee so hard that they are either so motivated to work and focus, or the employee will do a review and take stock of what they have and start to move to a higher level of employment elsewhere.

 

In short, dont make this place a training ground and max out the guys like the sugar cane syndrome.

 

crush once, crush twice and just when you thnk the guy will melt down, add water - ( motivate them by saying they doing a good job ) and crush one last time till they melt down.


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#7

Posted 16 April 2019 - 09:04 AM

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That time got one post about amazon about the same

#8

Posted 16 April 2019 - 09:05 AM

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In before mod :XD:
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#9

Posted 16 April 2019 - 09:10 AM

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ya  many of us easily hit 10 hrs.

 

when i was young, even sunday and public holiday i chiong abit.

 

it sound bad when he ask ppl to chiong long hours.

 

but if u yourself dun chiong when young and u struggle later u gonna question yourself,

 

why last time no 1 motivate me to chiong while i can ..

 

 

quite agree that when young should chiong all they can, 12 hours , 6 days week is common in many industry.

 

But many strawberry gen kids are too comfortable and difficult to do this.


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骑白马的不一定是王 ,可能是唐僧;带翅膀的也不一定是天使,有时候是鸟人。

#10

Posted 16 April 2019 - 09:13 AM

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Nothing new, typical selfish CEO behavior of a public listed company, it is all driven by greed, the CEO will want to work the soul out of everyone to maximize his million dollars of share option gain and bonus payout under the pretext of share holders value and employees future. At the end when another hyflux happen, see who is suffering and who is not. I am not saying we must not work hard but dont be fooled by the unscrupulous corporate executives.
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#11

Posted 16 April 2019 - 09:22 AM

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It's monetary serfdom.

I pay u, therefore u must 卖力 for me.
Well there's nothing wrong there cos the company must survive or be profitable or else where got salary to pay. And there are market forces deciding on a general basis, but not every worker will be able to maximise their advantage.
In a capitalistic society, that is the most efficient unequal system we have worked out.
But the govt has to have limits set to protect workers from being exploited.

The only way for this not to happen is if there are no such things as companies or corporations. Only organised collectives or Co ops based on socialist principles.

 

You missed out unions.

 

Real ones, not supermarkets.


ya  many of us easily hit 10 hrs.

 

when i was young, even sunday and public holiday i chiong abit.

 

it sound bad when he ask ppl to chiong long hours.

 

but if u yourself dun chiong when young and u struggle later u gonna question yourself,

 

why last time no 1 motivate me to chiong while i can ..

 

Rat race so jialat meh?

 

I don't work weekends unless there's an urgent report due the next week and even then, I don't spend more than 2-3 hours. This happens maybe once a quarter at most. 

 

But normal weekdays, I start work at 8:30am and go home at 7:30pm. Then continue to work from home as need to call our LATAM and N/A colleagues.


Edited by Kusje, 16 April 2019 - 09:19 AM.

That is all.

#12

Posted 16 April 2019 - 09:25 AM

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quite agree that when young should chiong all they can, 12 hours , 6 days week is common in many industry.

 

But many strawberry gen kids are too comfortable and difficult to do this.

 

Why waste your youth on work?  [laugh]

 

I don't think one should burn themselves out when they are young just because young people have more energy. Better to pace yourself and have some balance. 

 

In one of my previous jobs, I worked like a dog for almost 1 year because someone quit and the company didn't replace the fellow - all the work fell to me. Morning start work at 9am, leave office at 9pm. Unsustainable. 


That is all.

#13

Posted 16 April 2019 - 09:27 AM

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wah...a person only has 1 life but a company can always hire another employee

 

:D 


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#14

Posted 16 April 2019 - 09:28 AM

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You missed out unions.

Real ones, not supermarkets.


Rat race so jialat meh?

I don't work weekends unless there's an urgent report due the next week and even then, I don't spend more than 2-3 hours. This happens maybe once a quarter at most.

But normal weekdays, I start work at 8:30am and go home at 7:30pm. Then continue to work from home as need to call our LATAM and N/A colleagues.

That was when i was young.
Now cannot.
I see your working hrs also easily got 60hrs/ week?

#15

Posted 16 April 2019 - 09:29 AM

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f**k jack ma


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#16

Posted 16 April 2019 - 09:30 AM

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Why waste your youth on work?  [laugh]

 

I don't think one should burn themselves out when they are young just because young people have more energy. Better to pace yourself and have some balance. 

 

In one of my previous jobs, I worked like a dog for almost 1 year because someone quit and the company didn't replace the fellow - all the work fell to me. Morning start work at 9am, leave office at 9pm. Unsustainable. 

 

 

people who say this mean they are already in the comfort zone and the country has done well.


骑白马的不一定是王 ,可能是唐僧;带翅膀的也不一定是天使,有时候是鸟人。

#17

Posted 16 April 2019 - 09:42 AM

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That was when i was young.
Now cannot.
I see your working hrs also easily got 60hrs/ week?

 

Looks like 60 hours. 

 

But you minus off MCF+lunch+tea break  [sly]


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That is all.

#18

Posted 16 April 2019 - 09:47 AM

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Looks like 60 hours.

But you minus off MCF+lunch+tea break [sly]

Same same😂😂😂

#19

Posted 16 April 2019 - 09:51 AM

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people who say this mean they are already in the comfort zone and the country has done well.

 

It is for the individual to set their comfort zone.

 

Earn 60k per year and have free time to yourself. Or earn 120k/200k per year and work like a dog. Both can also be considered comfortable if you want it to be. I've a low expenditure and my household only spends about 20% of our total income so in theory, there's a lot more work we can cut.

 

For someone like me, I think the environment in this country is generally good (not difficult to find a job, low income tax. I don't spend much so 9% gst won't really affect me also).

 

Of course, those making 1000 per month got no such choice la. I feel our country shits on those people.


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That is all.

#20

Posted 16 April 2019 - 09:52 AM

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The only reason this fella say such things is so that he will earn more $$$ at the expense of his employees.
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