Installing Your Expensive Focal Speakers? Read On

[Slonez]

To cite an analogy, I have 10 years of driving experience, does it make me a good driver? Likewise, installing a few numbers of very high-end products does not necessary mean that the installer is "experience". He can only be known as an installer.

 

Well said .

[Autwin]

Interesting discussion and well said. Agreed with many of your points.

 

"To cite an analogy, I have 10 years of driving experience, does it make me a good driver? Likewise, installing a few numbers of very high-end products does not necessary mean that the installer is "experience". He can only be known as an installer"

 

Well quoted but if we are discussing about experience (hand on skills) - thus how good or bad may not be so relavant. look objectively, if one have onli ten years of driving theorically knowledge, he cant even be judge id he is good or bad he is. but if one has a class 3 license, he would easily upgrade himself to a class 4, class 5 or better. still if he is good or bad still need to be judged. looking from a personal angle, would one lend your car to someone to drive if he say that he has ten years of therotical knowledge of driving. ultimately, hand on experience is important as well as theortically.

 

however, would still be keen to know who in this case would-be termed as "qualified" to install high-end products? - for discussion please........

 

As what Sarong mentioned in his 1st post that Focal will onli sell their product to reputable agent/installer who know their products esp Be. think Focal arent that stupid to sell so many set of Focal Be to one particular shop if they had set the rules that installer/agent who had not attend their course will not be allow to sell or install their Be products.

 

As for the installer friends of us, thou they had not attended the said course (believe that it does exist). However, they had read up all the various tech specs/data/installn guides provided by Focal and with their "experience" (in installing other speakers), the results this far has been very good. perhaps, it can be better - hope to be able to audit other BE setup so that can compare... anyone else care to share where can we audit (sorri am still newbie and still learning)

 

good discussion and glad that many of us share many views in common as well as diff. it good to have diff views so that we can learn.....

 

cheers

Edited November 7, 2005 by Autwin

[Icboc_lee]

Hi Club_BE,

 

Thanks for the follow-up on this topic, that is very informative for the general public. As to the price list, the currency was what was obtained vide UK dealer's forum msg and the currency was indicated in Pounds and therefore the conversion from Pounds. Following is an article on Focal's drivers and the technology revolving behind their reputable speakers for your reference when you are investing in the Focal's speakers. The article is abstracted from http://ldsg.snippets.org/vendors/focal.php3 which features some of the older series of Focal. The newer Be series is not featured here.

 

 

The Audiom series is Focal's top of the line, derived from their JMlab Utopia series loudspeakers. Most Audiom cone drivers feature Focal's "W" sandwich cone material.

 

 

Hello, First time visits this forum. Was recommend by someone.

Are you refering this to JM Lab ? Home Audio ?

 

The W series is Focal's second tier drivers. Generally excellent, this series features Focal's "W" cones, a proprietary sandwich material. Since this is the same material used in most of the Audiom cone drivers, performance potential is also quite high. Note, however, that the "W" cone material is a modern high-stiffness composite and like other such materials, it can present challenges to the crossover designer.

 

The V series is an older line of drivers using Focal's proprietary Polyglass material. This is an excellent material for the casual builder, offering excellent performance with few unpleasant surprises when doing the crossover design.

 

The K series features Focal's proprietary Polykevlar cone material. This is an especially difficult material to work with which offers no sonic improvements over the somewhat tamer W series cones.

 

The Tweeter series includes Focal's line of non-Audiom tweeters, all of which use their proprietary Tioxid inverted domes.

 

Focal also makes a well-respected line of Autosound drivers, some of which are suitable for home hi-fi use.

 

The cone technolgies (also discussed in Section 1) are: [ol] [*]The W (sandwich) series cones are Focal's top of the line sandwich technology, originally only available on high end Utopia loudspeakers. Consisting of layers of fiberglass over a foam polymer core, this is one of the best materials to date from any manufacturer to provide optimum qualities of rigidity, light weight, and high internal damping.

[*]The Polykevlar (K) series cones are Focal's proprietary KevlarTM technolgy, consisting of a sandwich of Kevlar fabric and glass beads. The usual Kevlar vises are somewhat better tamed than in some other vendors' Kevlar implementations, but these are still generally not recommended.

[*]The Neoglass (NV) cones were one of Focal's best, but have now been discontinued. Consisting of a PP cone with a surface treatment of glass microspheres, they offered excellent performance at a reasonable price. Almost any of these you find are good buys.

[*]The Polyglass (V) series cones are currently Focal's entry level cone technology. Similar to the NV series, the V series uses a glass microsphere surface treatment on a paper cone.

[/ol]

[ol] [*]The Audiom TD5 is only one of two tweeters in Focal's premium Audiom line. Like Focal's other current tweeters, it features a 20 mm (3/4") VC and 1" inverted titanium dome, coated foam surround, ferrofluid, and a 5 mm thick machined oval aluminum face plate. Like other Focal inverted dome tweeters, it uses a phase plug. data sheet

[*]The Audiom TLR is Focal's other premium Audiom tweeter. Sold as an autosound unit, the TLR is similar to the TD5, but also features small winglike "wave guides" mounted above and below the diaphragm. These give it 2 dB higher sensitivity than the TD5. Like Focal's other current tweeters, it features a 20 mm (3/4") VC and 1" inverted titanium dome, coated foam surround, ferrofluid, and a 5 mm thick machined oval aluminum face plate. Most other TD5 comments apply, except it also includes the unique aluminum wave guide structure on the face plate to further control directivity and raise sensitivity. view

[*]The Audiom 6WM is the best midrange in Focal's premier Audiom line. It features a "W" cone and fairly high sensitivity and with breakup and resonances occurring at around 20 kHz. Response is very smooth between 150 Hz and 3 kHz, with a very low mass resulting in excellent detail. data sheet

[*]The Audiom 6W4311 and Audiom 6W4311B midrange drivers use Focal's advanced W-series diaphragms. It features useful sensitivity (exceptional when used in pairs) and excellent linearity and sonic characteristics. It offers an attractive, lower cost alternative to the Audiom 6WM midrange. The 6W4311B is shielded. data sheet

[*]TC90TD5 and TC90TD5B titanium/oxide inverted dome tweeters. This is a real workhorse 1" (25 mm.) metal dome tweeter, used in many of Focal's kit speakers. Affordable with exceptionally flat response, it features a distinctive phase plug mounted on a small bar across the face of the unit. Both units feature a polymer chassis and the TC90TdxB is shielded. data sheet

[*]TC120TD5 and TC120TD5B titanium/oxide inverted dome tweeters. Essentially identical to the TC90TD5 and TC90TD5B, but larger in diameter, sporting a larger magnet, greater power handling, and a lower Fs. Both units feature cast metal chassis and the TC120TD5B is shielded. data sheet

[*]The 5W4211 mid/bass and 5W3211B mid/bass are both 5" drivers with "W" cones. Both units feature ruler-flat passband response well past 4 kHz and decent numbers. The 5W3211B is shielded. 5W4211 data sheet 5W3211B data sheet

[*]The 7W4411 mid/bass is the premier 7" driver in Focal's Audiophile series. Using their proprietary "W" cone material, this unit features extremely clean response past 2 kHz, along with decent Xmax and sensitivity - especially when used in pairs. data sheet

[*]The 7K4412 mid/bass is the latest incarnation in the 7K011DBL/7K4411DB line of drivers. Like its prececessors, it's a 7" Polykevlar unit. Unlike them, it is a single VC design. As with its predecessors, this is regarded by many as the best Polykevlar driver in the Focal catalog. data sheet

[*]The 8V5411 woofer is an 8" unit using a Polyglass cone. This driver has an exceptional frequency range extending up past 2 kHz - although you really shouldn't us an 8" driver much over 1 kHz. Also, with oan Xmax of only 3.5 mm, this driver really needs a subwoofer for deep bass. data sheet

[*]The 11K7512 woofer is an 11" unit using a Polykevlar cone. It offers notably flat response for such a large unit, avoiding the HF resonances associated with Kevlar. data sheet

[*]The 13W8711 subwoofer is a 13" unit using a "W" cone. This unit features generally excellent data, although Xmax is not up to the better purpose-built subs, e.g. Stryke, Adire, Blueprint, at al. data sheet [/ol]

[Icboc_lee]

Folks, this is what I gathered and wanna share with you folks especially on Focal, I understand from respectable forums that all Focal dealers had to go on special training courses so that they can understand the correct way of installing the speakers in different configurations. I also understand that Focal will not allow dealers whom haven't been on their course to buy and install especially the Be (Beryllium) range. The authorised dealers are also given a tour of the factory so that they can see exactly how the Be domes are formed. Have your installer gone for the course?

 

 

 

If you mean those really pro installer, than maybe malaysia's Soundquest has gone through the training course . Understand in Malaysia, they hold Focal Be and they are the one that install the few rare Rav 4 tat won first n best SQ in latest ISACA .

 

huh, which amp they used ? wat spkr cable? RCA ? Headunit ? Active ? Passive ?

sub ?

 

 

In singapore here, Hong Guan is a authorised Focal dealer, he offer one of the best price around. Eg, Full N7 active at $5k

[Icboc_lee]

The art of turning something that is really nothing into something ...is the master chief of all...

 

wow, professor, sorry to bother. i just the beginner of car audio. Now try to pick up the car audio.But many years in home Audio. Think Ong family know me. Like what you explained about the character of each materials.So which 1 u think is the best ? How many dB is suit to the car ? How much of the RESERVE POWER need to power each driver. How many ohm for each driver. shall i use copper or silver cable to handle it?

 

Which amp is the best for it? How many rms? what is their reserve power for it?

[Icboc_lee]

Talk Audio Forum, much more meaty content and discussion.

 

which forum? can link to me ? Home Audio or car ? If home Audio. forget it. 30years in the home audio.Boring

[Fasthonda]

No doubt theory is important but that's only surface level, knowing how, when, what, where to apply is what makes the huge difference.

 

Be practical !

Edited November 7, 2005 by Fasthonda

[Icboc_lee]

Experience is no doubt important, but theoretical knowledge is equally important as well.

 

Having the "experience" of installing is through mistakes that they have made in the past, and from which, learn and do it better or avoid it. We can't quantify they don't make mistakes since this is how experience is built on and how do they build on their experience? Through many years of installing on customers' cars and that is where they learn their mistakes. To err is human.

 

To cite an analogy, I have 10 years of driving experience, does it make me a good driver? Likewise, installing a few numbers of very high-end products does not necessary mean that the installer is "experience". He can only be known as an installer.

 

What I see in an installer is one that is creative, thinking and is patient. He studies the products well and KNOWS what is the best combination of other components within a system to best produce and deliver the maximum potential, to make all your money worth-while. This is the minimum expectation of an installer. Today, installer doesn't merely mean "install" alone. His knowledge and application of his experience is equally or if not, important.

 

There is no point in paying for a very expensive set of equipment when the installer does not know his products, what are the weaknesses and strength.

 

The learning process of relying merely on experience is one painful way of learning. If the installer is satisfied with his installation skills and does not seek to enrich himself, I think the installer is plainly complacent.

 

Attending courses should be accompanied by practical hands-on, but its a pity installers generally picked up their skills and experience through inheritance, for which, the masters that they have learnt from could have just been another installer.

 

 

Agreed few points of u. Experience is from mistake .It can be sure apply for the past or.. but not the modern world like now and also audio.It only apply to scientic or manufacturers but not the installer.Bcos technologies and the world is changing fast.So installers were forced to be fast and pro through many ways like training and information from the magazines and internet to gain the knowledges n experiences.

 

Many yrs of installing also doesn't mean " experience ".Like what you said 10yrs of driving doesn't mean is a good driver. Like tiger wood,so young. few yrs of training by technologies.It become world no.1 .Wat abt those who played for many yrs ? We may say experience is from hardwork+intelligent not the mistake that they overcomed.Tat y got so many miracles and world records keep breaking.i day hardwork+his intelligent it may better than 10yrs learnt from mistake.My 30yrs in home audio n understand the equipment doesn't mean l'm pro .But i still workhard ,learn hard

 

Because world keep changing. Technologies also fast changing.Equipment bcome modern and modern.Big/heavy bcome small/light.Today u may experienced on certain things.Wat abt new techologies change? It may change in a yrs/mth/wks/day. Who know ?Even the manufacturers also want to use the operation manuals or website to help the installers .And they kept sharing the others configuration.

 

Somemore come to Audio.Such a very personal thing.Everyone have their own preference.It can't measure with experience.

 

What i c an installer is telling true and perform the equipments that set by the factory.And understand what we want.Bcos audio is personal. Customers may don't like the sound even u knws the equipment well.

 

others =agreed .Start bored in other forum. All political.Hope to learn more abt car audio here.

[Sidestepper]

hi ,

i agree with what everyone has mentioned here.....the world of audio is indeed very heavily biased on personal preferences. However, certain fundatmentals tell some truth about the integrity of a driver. Things such as Distortion plots n Fz response. If u have the equipment to scope a driver n show inferior distortion response, no amount of tuning or eq will ever make it sound good.

Edited November 7, 2005 by Sidestepper

[Autwin]

hi there sidestepper (you also in sgsoundsystem??) and icboc_lee (uncle icboc in sgsoundsystem??). glad to see you gusy.

 

cheers

Edited November 8, 2005 by Autwin

[Anders213]

Agree with sidestepper.

 

I know specs is specs and audio is audio.

But i havent really heard of any speakers which has a screwed up FR curve and still sounds good.

[Icboc_lee]

hahaha.... saw ur nick in sgsoundsystem. Nice to meet u here. Just recommend to this forum.

[Icboc_lee]

Hello Autwin,

Nice to c u here as well. Yes, is me uncle lee. How is your system? Heard you may go for kimber cable.

Try Ven Del Hul,Sure you got the good memory for it. Kimber should go to 8tc

.The set of spkrs + the amp = better using Pure copper not silver. RCA is ok for it.

[Bosebani]

If Autwin go for 8TC, maybe will "bUrst" his unlimited budget again

 

Heard latest news from last nite dinner, his car already has something better than VDH and Kimber

[Bosebani]

>>I know specs is specs and audio is audio.

But i havent really heard of any speakers which has a screwed up FR curve and still sounds good. >>

 

 

 

 

Have you seen a 50w*2 RMS amp, after bridging, CLIPPED the JL W3 Sub before?

 

 

Amp only at 1 quarter gain setting!

Edited November 8, 2005 by Bosebani

[Sidestepper]

i'm sure its only a fuzzy signal from a source or faulty amp....

[Autwin]

bosebani, beware what you say - me is PTE LTD onli not MNC. dont anyhow quote me

 

uncle lee, me no enough $$ to go higher liao. the bro going for kimber is not me, he is bro RX Louis. he may be giving up his P90 to go for something else to match his Focal BE N7 as well as the amp which "clipped" the JL W3. now waiting for him to install his setup .....

 

agree with you that pure copper cable is the excellant choice for car audio (personnal preference) but again it will come with a cost (like kimber and VDH).

 

Cheers

 

btw, think we discuss abit out of topic. perhaps we can start a threads to discuss about the various components for good car audio system (not restricted to just amps, head unit, speaker sub but more on power sources, speaker cable, RCAs cable, positions).

[Anders213]

Hmmm... im a little confused mate.

What does clipping and FR curve have in common?

I always think they are 2 different thing.

Please fill me in mate.

 

Cheers