In car Stereo

[Barakian]

A bit difficult to answer that question as we are working with totally different variables and conditions inside a car, as opposed to home audio. In the car, we are not at liberty to move speakers around freely, but we can at home. Therefore, the 4k-odd that we spend in ICE for time alignment may be considered essential to the hardcore enthusiast.

 

Not too sure about the prices of time alignment equipment, but the Sony C90 HU and XDP4000 processor together cost around 3k++. Normally time alignment is built into processors, and I have not come across standalone time alignment equipment.

[Ghostrider]

It does not sound funny at all. In fact when I was invited to take a shot at the system I didn't know what kinda hardware he was using.....after the sound test, I took a peek at the hardware & was surprise how simple (but expensive) hardware he has........

 

Didn't know that you got Chinaman illness....may I prescribe you to see Goeffy soon....he has the cure for you......!!! Bwahahahahahahahaha[laugh]

[Skoda_Man]

sorry man.. my wallet cannot take it to make a visit to him man...... will burn like 2K to revamp my ICE... not now not now......

[Fabiaman]

Tks Barakian,

 

Hence bottomline I feel is that if you stay at home often and time spent in a car is scarce or maybe as a rule of thumb, if you travel below 20,000km a year, its not worth the money to spice up your ICE to a solid one (which is abt 4k) since for that same amt of money, you can get a steady poon pi pi system at home... no need to spend that extra on TAlignment or soundproofing since is free at home.

 

However, if you spend a lot of time on the roads (like in sales or NS highway chiongster) than you will probably find the money well spent. Just my 2 rupiahs worth.

Any comments?

 

A bit difficult to answer that question as we are working with totally different variables and conditions inside a car, as opposed to home audio. In the car, we are not at liberty to move speakers around freely, but we can at home. Therefore, the 4k-odd that we spend in ICE for time alignment may be considered essential to the hardcore enthusiast.

 

Not too sure about the prices of time alignment equipment, but the Sony C90 HU and XDP4000 processor together cost around 3k++. Normally time alignment is built into processors, and I have not come across standalone time alignment equipment.

Edited January 2, 2002 by Fabiaman

[Barakian]

Well, that again will depend on whether the individual is more of a hardcore ICE or home audio player. Also if someone has more money to sink into an ICE system and have pluhney left over for home audio, then he may wanna get the best of both worlds.

 

But to us ordinary folk, I guess what you say will apply. For me, although I may not spend a lot of time on the roads as compared to other folk, I would wanna do up my ICE system purely because my dad would erupt like Mount Karakatoa if I started playing punchy beats at home even at sub-blasting levels! Cannot blast at home so blast in the car lor... hee hee!! Datz what I did in my previous car...now no car so I blast my MP3 Discman....heh heh!!

[Fabiaman]

Well, that again will depend on whether the individual is more of a hardcore ICE or home audio player. Also if someone has more money to sink into an ICE system and have pluhney left over for home audio, then he may wanna get the best of both worlds.

 

Fully agreed. Got money anything oso can!

 

But to us ordinary folk, I guess what you say will apply. For me, although I may not spend a lot of time on the roads as compared to other folk, I would wanna do up my ICE system purely because my dad would erupt like Mount Karakatoa if I started playing punchy beats at home even at sub-blasting levels! Cannot blast at home so blast in the car lor... hee hee!! Datz what I did in my previous car...now no car so I blast my MP3 Discman....heh heh!!

 

Hee. reminds me of my youth days. My home audio set up includes a big subwoofer and two punchy speakers and my favourite discs and records (those 12" and 7") were mostly those techno tunes and pop songs. And as you might have expected it, I blast the house whenever my parents are not at home. At one time, my whole room was SHIVERING from my blast, yes, the vibrations were felt throughout the room (my cupboards door was also visibly shaking!) and I was, well, also quite afraid the house will collapse. I remember one song really gave that effects - All the She Wants from Ace of Base... solid bass that I will probably never forget for the rest of my life.

[Barakian]

Try this song: Set Adrift on a Memory Bliss by PM Dawn....the bass'll rock you manz!!

[Classicbbs]

Hi Barakian,

No need TA, still can get reasonable front staging.. as long as both in front seats get the good concert like sound.. also Ok. In true life concert, not always can get to sit in front row center.

 

spinner.. for the 2k + system that Mr" Bigman tatoo "Geoff recommend normally include comps in front, 1 sub at back + 1pc 4channel amp+cables,workmanship & tuning expertise! not incl headunit.

If you on budget, just get the comps.. CDT classic is VG. The lanzar Vibe 420 ,4channel amp in his display case, Is mine.. can letgo for $300.

 

you are right abt visiting Geoff..Burnt VERY Big hole in my pocket aleady.. and still not complete yet!

 

cheers

Pat

[Barakian]

Hey dude! Good to see you in here! Agreed, TA is not ESSENTIAL to getting that kinda imaging, but it is the one that provides the best results. The other way to doing it is more tiresome and back-breaking, IMHO...

[Spinner]

Oh yes, Classicbbs, now I remember the big man's name : Jeff or Geoff.

 

Yes, the 2k set up does not include the HU and it includes what you listed. His selling point as well was that he customise the subwoofer box to the car's nboot dimension so that space is optimised. Quite impressed but probably still not time to spend yet pending the economic recovery.

 

Hi Barakian,

No need TA, still can get reasonable front staging.. as long as both in front seats get the good concert like sound.. also Ok. In true life concert, not always can get to sit in front row center.

 

spinner.. for the 2k + system that Mr" Bigman tatoo "Geoff recommend normally include comps in front, 1 sub at back + 1pc 4channel amp+cables,workmanship & tuning expertise! not incl headunit.

If you on budget, just get the comps.. CDT classic is VG. The lanzar Vibe 420 ,4channel amp in his display case, Is mine.. can letgo for $300.

 

you are right abt visiting Geoff..Burnt VERY Big hole in my pocket aleady.. and still not complete yet!

 

cheers

Pat

[AutoS]

Fabia,

 

Time alignment is indeed a marvelous tool of technology for car audio for the shortfalls already identified. I've been playing W/ quite a few lately and really starting to like it. Previously I never like to use cuz of the hi cost, the overall digital sound effect and the user unfriendliness and limited usage of these expensive processors.

 

Recently just this mid year we can see TA being incorporated into HU's for hardly any x'tra $$, user friendly and not too digital in sound reproduction.

 

BUT ....

 

I am gonna be a wet blanket .... again ... here and say, " TA is not the cure, it is merely some nice icing on the cake."

 

For the reasons U mentioned abt left ch, right ch mono etc, time alignment affects mainly the mono element and therefore is most useful to focus the centaral image. It will not cure problems W/ lopsided or low soundstage and won't do helluva lot for resolution. There are some effects on other variables but very limited and effects can be good and also can be bad.

 

Basically the TA has to be used intelligently to suit the set-up and the vehicle if the best benefit is to be garnished.

 

Having said that it is possible to achieve good car audio without TA and on the other side of the coin it is not possible to cure a badly set up system just by incorporating TA.

 

 

Take an audition of Sparetyres simple set-up without TA or my own Vito oso no TA altho I am considering adding and be Ur own judge. My Vito even more jialat than any car. The left speaker posn is not one but 2 seats away and the van hi-seating makes the speakers relatively even lower. If U look at my mounting and fabrication U may come to appreciate how we car audio pple work to overcome the deficiencies of the car sound environment.

 

Also another consideration to this problem are the use of rear fills. They are not just there to whack any old speakers like 6 X9's or even expensive components. They are there for the specific purpose of helping to overcome the deficiencies of the car sound environment and as such also need to be applied intelligently.

 

It's nice talking to U Guys on one of my fav topics, but it's the real listening that will provide the conclusive answers.

 

AutoS

[AutoS]

"you are right abt visiting Geoff..Burnt VERY Big hole in my pocket aleady.. and still not complete yet!"

 

Hey Pat,

 

What big hole U burnt in pocket? How much wasit? What was done and still needs to be done?

 

Would be good to recap Bro. No tekan here tekan there here from me Bro. Everybody has their perceptions, I can empathise W/ that. I am just curious to know what Ur perceptions on $$ to hardware and install labour are.

 

Thanx in advance.

 

AutoS

 

BTW just share info:

 

"No need TA, still can get reasonable front staging.. "

 

TA is more for Imaging, doesn't do a whole lot to adjust Staging.

 

Anyone interested U can refer to my partially completed website: www.zoomcaraudio.com

for defn and explaination of the main audiophile terms. BTW explaination is in my own words never even refer to other literature, to make it easier for layman to understand so I hope it's not inaccurate in anyway. If it is I would appreciate expert Bros here to correct me B4 applying butter.

Edited November 19, 2002 by AutoS

[AutoS]

Fabia,

 

Not just wanna be disagreeable but just to let Bros know:

 

"Fully agreed. Got money anything oso can!"

 

Actually in car audio many pple have money even big money spend oso cannot. For precisely the same reasons U'v been mentioning abt the difficulties of achieving in the car. It's not just the hardware but how it'd used expertly in the install to overcome.

 

The real pity is many spend big bucks, even seasoned home audiophilers and simply accept results cuz placebo effect, "I spent big money on big name brand, I guess this must be good car audio." ... until one day happen to audition the 'real' car audio then ... jawdrop[jawdrop] ....then shock .....then siau liaoz ..... then very sad[bigcry] ......then KNN

 

AutoS

Edited November 19, 2002 by AutoS

[Classicbbs]

Hello Geoff,

very surprise u still reply to an ages old post (January..yikes!)... Really dont know much abt car hifi..but close to $4k+spent.. Thats consider a BIG hole in my pocket. an up to day I sold my car, still cannot catch flying aeroplane.

Anyways.. My renault is now history

 

Got the tube+CDTs installed in my new ride already.. simple install this time.

 

Cheers

Pat

 

ps. LDX u sold me was the cause of aeroplane.

[AutoS]

Ah-sor!

 

So U are that Patrick. I didn't realize Ur post was so long ago since this thread just come alive again.

 

Yeah Ur system running Tubedrivers etc so cost is like that. Lot's of pple pay a lot more and get a lot less. Ur Tube Amp now got $$ also cannot buy and the longer U keep the better it sounds. In the likely event U need replacement Tubes U can look for me.

 

The LDX X-over W/ the tubes tends to be more sensitive to picking up interference. Hellfreezes faced the same problem W/ his LDX and it took a few months and quite a few visits to solve the chronic problem.

 

But he made the time cuz the LDX really does enhance the tube sound further. so eventually problem solved.

 

Last time I talked to U, I remember me giving U my standard install charges and U bargaining then me mentioning abt better to do another enclosure for new car and then I figured U would get back to me in a minute or so. So I turned back to continue the car I was attending to. Then I turned to look for U again I saw U driving off and U didn't look happy. I was a bit surprised but decided to let it be. I figured that maybe U thought becuz I turned my back on U I was being rude or sumpthin but it wasn't my intention I just needed to get back to what I was doing while U were making up Ur mind.

 

Basically whatever I did for U from the first word go there was an improvemrnt. First from Ur not cheap big and famous original installer to additional upgrades. Anyway glad U are happy and have found a cheaper installer to re-install Urs in the new car. After all it's just a biz negotiation. On Ur part Px not to Ur liking don't do, no sweat Pat but no reason not to remain on friendly terms.

 

All the best.

Edited November 19, 2002 by AutoS

[Classicbbs]

Hi geoff,

 

you are right.. that day was damm pissed with ur attitude. when I mention I dont want to spend too much$$ and want a simple setup in new ride , u like no intrested in doing my biz anymore and go off tuning other car.. It was just plain Rude.

 

anyways.. its water under the bridge now

 

Cheers

Pat

[AutoS]

Pat,

 

I think it was a misunderstanding. I was in the middle of tuning when U showed up. So basically I thought that we had already had a good look at Ur car and already tok until not much else to say. So it wasn't me not interested, I more or less expected to give U 5mins or so to think awhile then we could re-discuss. So I went back to tuning expecting to talk again in awhile, expecting U to catch my attention when U were ready. If U recall back I wasn't pissed or anything like that, in fact cracking a few jokes here and there.

 

Anyway my apologies for giving U the impression I was not interested. After all no matter what U were and are my customer and I always have an ICE obligation to pple who have spent money.

 

AutoS

[Hondaairwave]

where is your shop??