World without COE and ERP

[Maseratigood]

i can give you other companies that have succeeded thru hard work without having to rely on foreign labour

a singaporean company comes to mind - charles & keith

they have in-house designers and cater for a wide range of products and needs, their offerings are unique and value for money.

 

a carbon copy of c&k would be any shop along bugis street who employ foreign labour extensively. the owner would simply go to countries like vietnam or thailand and mass purchase items from there to resell here. 77th street is the largest of this group of stores which have no competitive advantage because they sell the same product as others, have no future viability other than reselling produce and relying on cheap foreign labour to man their stores and transport their goods.

 

c&k might have foreign labour among their ranks now but lets not forget they started in 2000s when such a business concept was not available. ie they had to rely on competitive advantage instead of FL

 

so once again, a lack of foreign labour does not equate to businesses closing shop unless they were never supposed to have existed in the very first place

Good example

 

In terms of exportable intellectual products, eg designs involving creativity eg advertising, engineering/architecture/interior designers etc, our local copywriters or designers are up there amongst the better ones regionally, though not reaching the top-notch status yet, but competitive in other developing countries. Their creative work is done mainly by our native designers mixed with some imported talents to make the design suitable for places beyond sgp. Unfortunately the design industry is not labour intensive so does not generate mass employments. In fact local design firms outsource back room work to other countries which provide cheap supports eg draftsmen etc.

 

Talking about local design capabilities and the retention of them as a national economic asset, sad to said that Miw has decided few years ago to sell one of the large design consortium with at least 50 years of impressive design portfolio/CV to a foreign firm which is a competitor to consortium in some markets!! It's now gone for good, together with its enviable international track records!! This home grown consortium used to be under Temasek iirc.

Edited February 12, 2013 by Maseratigood

[Pureness]

there are other examples too, there is a malay ran KFC style restaurant near paya labar mrt station that is always packed too, the last time i was there i didn't see even a single foreign worker despite them being jammed pack everytime lunch or dinner comes around. so there are many examples of local companies that don't have to rely on foreign labour for sustainability. this doesn't even include companies in other countries where they do not have cheap foreign labour but instead have to deal with unions, workers rights, minimum wage and etc. why is it that ONLY IN SINGAPORE if we hire local the company will go out of business? the explanation does not hold logic!

 

think about singaporean companies like creative or iomega! they were doing awesomely fine before this foreign labour expansion, that would mean foreign labour would make them even better right? look at them now and where are they?

 

 

but you get the idea, singapore is a land without resource. we have relied on innovation and enterprise from the beginning and we should not deviate from what we are good at! you know how automation from computer systems tend to make people stupid? this is what is going to become of us when we over-rely on foreign labour!

 

our businesses will not be competitive and we will lose our advantage, later we will rely so much on foreign labour which brings foreign investment that when our small island becomes over-populated, we will not be able to have a plan B.

 

 

our govt has saw this a long time ago when they announced that our expat program was supposed to be tweaked, we will bring in the top talents and make singapore become a research hub.

that was the way forward, we should be key testing grounds for new technologies, biomedical research, sustainable energy resource research. we have guaranteed sun 12 hours a day 365 days a year, why can't we invite solar companies to come here to invest on ways and means to produce more efficient solar cells?

 

for this reason i think our current govt lacks foresight. if we do not stem the flow of foreigners, we will lose much more than we currently have.

i say if we lose that 10k or 20k singaporean jobs, let it be because we will gain 100k once our local companies become competitive again!

Edited February 12, 2013 by Pureness

[Zanter]

simple reason, it will pichar their lobang [laugh]

 

Yeah exactly! I dont know why this joker can come and tell us how to feel about Govt sucking our hard-earned money and asking us to be happy about it. This is their cash cow but you can be very sure there is a price to pay just like the recent by-election results indicates.

[Zanter]

Bro my company relies on FW can you not make me lose my job ...can or not? . Fact is that my Co has around 30% FW supporting 70% locals. Please spare a thought of the families of the 70% locals even if you hate FW/FT

[Kar_lover]

traditionally businesses operate on competitive advantage. this is why you'll choose apple vs symbian or mercedes vs cherry.

in our local context because of cheap imported labour, we have businesses doing nothing but reselling cheap labour. companies who don't have any advantage other than price. their produce might not be up to standard but they are chosen because they are priced better against the well known brands

 

the minute we remove foreign labour, these companies lose their competiveness because they hold no advantage against well known brands. delifrance vs breadtalk, toughguard vs csII, sakae sushi, kopidiam vs macdonalds

without cheap foreign labour these companies would have closed shop a long time ago because they offer sub-par produce vs the competition.

 

yet these companies will continue to offer sub-par produce because of cheap labour, they have no imperative to improve or to go back to formula because this has been what they were doing all the while!

 

so we can continue to go down this path and allow such companies to grow by constantly importing foreigners to keep up the demand so that these sup-par suppliers can remain in business but this would mean 7m population in 2030, 10m in 2040, 15m in 2050 and on...

 

Wait ah, in ur egs above who are u refering to as sub-par? Deli or breadtalk? Toughguard or cs2? To me deli and BT are quite different (cafe vs bakery), I don't know abt toughguard but since I can only assume deli to be the "well known brand" since it is an intl franchise hence I am thinking u mean cs2 to be the cheap labour imposter?

Edited February 12, 2013 by Kar_lover

[Kar_lover]

For discussion:- companies like Apple focus on high value work eg extensive R&D and oustanding/strategic product Differentiation to not only stay strong in but lead the market not just in turn over but in technical break through, they even create new markets with innovations.

 

Apple has extensive R&D? Err in case u have not realised, Apple is behind android (esp samsung) in technology. Their popularity is based much on their nice industrial design and strong marketing esp by the late SJ. But years before there was "facetime" there was already video call and Skype. From ip to ip3 to 4 and now 5 not much has changed if u compare with android. And apple is no longer the market leader except in lawsuits.

[Tmcderricktan]

totally agree your point of view, regardless how we understood or agree with the needs of COE system, the root cause is the infra hasnt ready before over population policy take place. and the wrong coe allocation policies in the previous years.

 

so who false is this, we could have had cheaper coe system while still enjoying low traffic volumn for next many years, but due to over import of population to boost economy before the infra is ready, which resulted the rich get richer, the poor may or may not get rich or poorer but for sure the poor has to force themself squeece into unprepared excited public transport system.

 

after all, rich get car, middle income struggling to get car, poor one enjoying sandwiching into public transport which has to prepare themself for sudden breakdown as and when it has to.

 

just my view, i am not into any specific political direction

 

 

 

 

[Pureness]

Apple has extensive R&D? Err in case u have not realised, Apple is behind android (esp samsung) in technology. Their popularity is based much on their nice industrial design and strong marketing esp by the late SJ. But years before there was "facetime" there was already video call and Skype. From ip to ip3 to 4 and now 5 not much has changed if u compare with android. And apple is no longer the market leader except in lawsuits.

 

apple has since stopped innovating as much as they did when they first launched the iphone

during then the iphone was a miracle when compared against blackberry and microsoft or symbian

they were the first to put effort into areas like HCI and user interface.

 

perhaps as a consequence of their own success their resources have now moved into advancing the mac os instead of ios

 

but the point remains, a company should rely on innovation and competitive advantage rather than cheap labour.

perhaps i should have used pantech as a comparison instead of panasonic

Edited February 12, 2013 by Pureness

[Pureness]

Wait ah, in ur egs above who are u refering to as sub-par? Deli or breadtalk? Toughguard or cs2? To me deli and BT are quite different (cafe vs bakery), I don't know abt toughguard but since I can only assume deli to be the "well known brand" since it is an intl franchise hence I am thinking u mean cs2 to be the cheap labour imposter?

 

i used delifrance because i usually do delifrance take aways for breakfast

toughguard is a cheap knock off of true paint protection systems like cs2

[Maseratigood]

Apple has extensive R&D? Err in case u have not realised, Apple is behind android (esp samsung) in technology. Their popularity is based much on their nice industrial design and strong marketing esp by the late SJ. But years before there was "facetime" there was already video call and Skype. From ip to ip3 to 4 and now 5 not much has changed if u compare with android. And apple is no longer the market leader except in lawsuits.

R&D can be applied to how they design user interface and good industrial design, not just what's inside the hp. I am no Apple fan (am the only one not using iPhone at home when there are at least 3-4 iPhones owned by family members), and i dont foresee i will ever own one. How they market and position their phone is also smartly done. The key point is, as pointed out by Pureness, they dont rely heavyly, if at all, on cheap labour.

Edited February 12, 2013 by Maseratigood

[Maseratigood]

totally agree your point of view, regardless how we understood or agree with the needs of COE system, the root cause is the infra hasnt ready before over population policy take place. and the wrong coe allocation policies in the previous years.

 

so who false is this, we could have had cheaper coe system while still enjoying low traffic volumn for next many years, but due to over import of population to boost economy before the infra is ready, which resulted the rich get richer, the poor may or may not get rich or poorer but for sure the poor has to force themself squeece into unprepared excited public transport system.

 

after all, rich get car, middle income struggling to get car, poor one enjoying sandwiching into public transport which has to prepare themself for sudden breakdown as and when it has to.

 

just my view, i am not into any specific political direction

Well said!

 

on the lighter side: the million dollars men were (and still are) caught with their pants down... literally (resulting in Punggol BE), and also figuratively (not getting ready infra in time)

[Maseratigood]

Yeah exactly! I dont know why this joker can come and tell us how to feel about Govt sucking our hard-earned money and asking us to be happy about it. This is their cash cow but you can be very sure there is a price to pay just like the recent by-election results indicates.

just had a class re-union talkokk today, someone said, and nearly all agreed: sucking money from us is bad enough, but refusing to let a former president to take a look at what happened to all the sucked money, just showed us what kind of transparency and accountability we have here...

[Thedream]

just had a class re-union talkokk today, someone said, and nearly all agreed: sucking money from us is bad enough, but refusing to let a former president to take a look at what happened to all the sucked money, just showed us what kind of transparency and accountability we have here...

 

*like*

[Kar_lover]

R&D can be applied to how they design user interface and good industrial design, not just what's inside the hp. I am no Apple fan (am the only one not using iPhone at home when there are at least 3-4 iPhones owned by family members), and i dont foresee i will ever own one. How they market and position their phone is also smartly done. The key point is, as pointed out by Pureness, they dont rely heavyly, if at all, on cheap labour.

 

I am not really sure what you mean by user interface cos i remember in 2002/03 there were already HPs, O2s, Dopods, etc. smartphones (or PDA phones as they were called then) that already had similar icon driven UIs. They also had email functions. Later on Nokia and its Symbian OS also had icon driven menus. Which is why i can't understand how apple can sue samsung over UI. It's nothing new.

 

For me the breakthrough for Apple was its Apps market. Prior to apple there were not many apps and cetainly no app market. Like you, i am not and will never be an Apple user. But have to acknowledge without apple there probably would not have the apps like what we have today. But then again, i am not so much an app user also. Just the essentials and a game or two.

 

 

[Maseratigood]

I am not really sure what you mean by user interface cos i remember in 2002/03 there were already HPs, O2s, Dopods, etc. smartphones (or PDA phones as they were called then) that already had similar icon driven UIs. They also had email functions. Later on Nokia and its Symbian OS also had icon driven menus. Which is why i can't understand how apple can sue samsung over UI. It's nothing new.

 

For me the breakthrough for Apple was its Apps market. Prior to apple there were not many apps and cetainly no app market. Like you, i am not and will never be an Apple user. But have to acknowledge without apple there probably would not have the apps like what we have today. But then again, i am not so much an app user also. Just the essentials and a game or two.

As my point is mainly about businesses like Apple don't rely mainly on cheap labor to win the game, and not so much about details on what are their breakthroughs etc except suffice to say that innovations play a part in these businesses to become market leaders, your mention of the introduction of apps is inline with the same point. Have a good day.

[Tianake]

There are MANY jobs out there that Singaporeans refuse to take up. This is a true fact that many Singaporeans refuse tp accept. Maybe we should try shutting our doors and see what happens.

 

For example - How many ITE grads are willing to get their hands dirty to become a technician or mechanic? I'm sure there are, but definitely not enough to go around. Just ask yourself how many of the car mechanics that you see at the workshops are locals? Most are Malaysians.

 

if the workshop can offer a decent pay , i don't see any reason why any ITE gradutes will refuse the job.

However with such high level of living, are the big bosses paying enough for the local to take up the dirty jobs?

The answer is NO, this is why you see so many companies big boss kaypeh they cannot hire enough locals and ask the garmen to increase more FTs into the country. with more FTS on their payroll, the more money go into the bosses pocket.

 

Now you understand why you see more and more luxury cars on the roads instead of B&B cars?

 

 

 

[Nicholas]

I am not really sure what you mean by user interface cos i remember in 2002/03 there were already HPs, O2s, Dopods, etc. smartphones (or PDA phones as they were called then) that already had similar icon driven UIs. They also had email functions. Later on Nokia and its Symbian OS also had icon driven menus. Which is why i can't understand how apple can sue samsung over UI. It's nothing new.

 

For me the breakthrough for Apple was its Apps market. Prior to apple there were not many apps and cetainly no app market. Like you, i am not and will never be an Apple user. But have to acknowledge without apple there probably would not have the apps like what we have today. But then again, i am not so much an app user also. Just the essentials and a game or two.

 

Apple's interface is smooth, beautiful and quite idiot proof. They borrow heavily from others, and they borrow the best things like pinch zoom and made it popular. I loved Apple when they were underdogs, before iphone arrived.

 

Apple sueing Samsung was not wrong imo, because it's quite obvious Samsung copied Apple in terms of design. No other androids copied as blatantly as Samsung. Anyway, they shouldn't award Apple's rectangle with rounded corners patent.

 

As for myself, I don't use Iphone because like Apple, I 'Think Different'.

[Kar_lover]

if the workshop can offer a decent pay , i don't see any reason why any ITE gradutes will refuse the job.

However with such high level of living, are the big bosses paying enough for the local to take up the dirty jobs?

The answer is NO, this is why you see so many companies big boss kaypeh they cannot hire enough locals and ask the garmen to increase more FTs into the country. with more FTS on their payroll, the more money go into the bosses pocket.

 

Now you understand why you see more and more luxury cars on the roads instead of B&B cars?

 

But if the workshop offers better pay, wont' he just end up charging customer more?