COE refinements to be finalised in next few weeks

[Elfenstar]

Bros out there,

 

Why should COE be tied with only 1 car purchase?

 

How about securing a 10yrs COE, but within this 10yrs, owners can change their car as and when they like. Think it's going to benefits everyone, owner + car dealers.

 

Any views with this win-win scenario?

 

Does this mean that if I buy a pre-loved car, I would have to bid for COE as well?

[Elfenstar]

Totally agree with you. Where got such thing that dealers can hold your order for 6 mths one, and after that so sorry no deal? Where got such thing the dealers can tell u sorry price has changed and we cannot deliver unless you top up, after agreed price. Only dealers protected and buyers shoulder all the risk.

 

Get a guaranteed COE package and then you're all set lah. Take a non-guaranteed package at your own risk. It's not as if there isn't a choice.

[Elfenstar]

BEST JOKE FOR THE MONTH ... you win !

 

the one and only reason will dealer reduce car price is NO SALE. their car is sitting in the showroom collecting dust.

why would dealer reduce the car price when COE is fully paid by buyer (and dealer also build in their variable margin inside COE).

whether COE is $10K or $100K the dealer profit margin is maintain and will only INCREASE and not DECREASE

 

if you compare low coe period (ie: < $50k) vs high coe period (ie: >$70k) ... car price actually INCREASE and not DECREASE as you said that "due to high coe price" .... LOL

 

Went up due to lower supply and thus lower overall profit if they maintained the same margins as before. What I think he means by reduce the price is that they have lower their margins (compared to a scenario where they don't bid) since the buyer has no urgent need to buy a car.

[Elfenstar]

I have some humble opinion abt the entire car ownership issue in SG.

 

I have to put into context 2 friends that I have that's working in HK. In HK, population is dense, lots of cars, small roads. 1 friend bought a CLAfor SGD70k, another friend a Volvo for 60k. Both didn't have season parking in town. 1drive from home and park outskirt n takes mrt to work, another wife drive him to work and uses the car to ferry children. Both have no complaints not bec the mrt are not pack but bec they don't need to pay a lot for car purchase and no erp to pay and no 10 year Coe. So to them, the cost of owning a car is the initial 70k that's a immediate loss liao and if want convenient, pay expensive parking. They do not think of their cars as annual depreciation of 7k etc and if dun fully utilized, will loss more money etc.. hence quite a lot of like minded people may not drive all the time.

 

In SG, the dame car cost 190k and 230k and expire 10 years.. cbd parking cost $300+-400 compared to their CBD parking of 500+-700.. but if don't drive, back of head everyday think of daily depreciation..

 

Maybe these contributes to the many angers generated from SG?

 

Btw, HK LTA definitely do not have as much revenue as SG LTA.. but why SG car owners have so much issues that's primarily created by system setup by authorities?

 

I agree, which is why I think we need to raise parking rates in the CBD alongside ERP rates. HK is a good gauge. Similar culture, population density etc, but there are three main differences. Lower average pay (median is comparable), better public transport system, and much lower vehicle population (I think they're about 600k, and we have about 1 million). Which is why I think we should still keep COE.

[Elfenstar]

90% of daily trips in HK are done via public transport;

the total car population is only about half of SG (per capita)

something must be stinging them from buying a personal car.

 

It's the average pay, and the cost of housing. The former is lower, the latter is higher.

[Elfenstar]

to limit dealer manipulation.

whenever bmw/merc/audi got new model to rollout ... dealer-outbid-dealer to clinch sales to maintain No. 1 luxury car sales in spore. coe is driven by "selling" and not "buying"

the worst thing is cat e which they can keep the coe for 6 months to exercise it

 

Well with if the COE categories are changed to use OMV, then there's no problem is there? Only Cat B will be affected, while Cat A chugs along normally.

[Maseratigood]

wah... radx paper car also more exp than tat... u win leow lor [laugh]

I drove it to ICT for two years..... Just parked it anywhere within the camp where fellow NS men daren't park their newer cars

Edited August 29, 2013 by Maseratigood

[Elfenstar]

So cham meh?

I tot dealer already factor in the potential up. Just make less only.

 

Time your purchases properly. You can get good deals this way. I got it once when the COE prices shot up (closed bidding time), got a rebate the once when it dropped below the threshold, and when I bought my OPC, I timed it so that I would get as close to the full 17k rebate as possible. I got lucky again with the last coz of the recent supply squeeze, and sold it for more than I bought it Only regret is that I should have sold of my current car, and used the cash to convert my OPC. I love small hatches and miss it

[Elfenstar]

No. The dealers do not outbid each others.

Instead, together they unite to manipulate the price.

When the COE inch up $1-2k each time, dealers make less. True.

But, once in a blue moon, COE price will dip $5k-10k. This is the time when dealers ..... jiak ka liao.

 

Bah they don't manipulate through collusion. They don't need to. The big ones (like BM, C&C etc) have enough sales volumes to dictate what the others bid or not get COE's. It's us that give them the OK to bid that high anyway. If we didn't do you think they would? It's our want's and how much we value them that the issue.

[Elfenstar]

Then you can easily import your own car and not buy from the dealers if the pricing is too high. Choices are out there.

 

Spot on. I believe we even have a step by step process on how it was done in MCF

[Elfenstar]

Lets wait for the finalization, then talk.

 

Am sure they have already made up their mind. Now, it's the tweaking of details.

 

Yup, that's what I gathered too when I "interrogated" them at the closing Although they knew which way they didn't want to go, they weren't very sure on which would be the best way to go at the focus group session though.

[Elfenstar]

i agree that it is difficult to implement the cap, even if we want it due to the reasons given above. I hope LTA and the policy makers apply the suggestions made so far.

 

I also hope that they dont forget the rest of the silent motorists who already have a vehicle paid for based on current rules, and who will be affected when the COE is tweaked once again.

 

We won't be affected unless we're going to buy another one, and LTA is supposed to provide disincentives for that

[Elfenstar]

now people is only lazy to bid coz got dealers to bid.. if you remove dealers to bid and the person really want to buy car. why not? you are just going to make inconvenience to those lao uncles that are not english educated but cash rich.

 

demand is still there. people will still bid. especially rich people. if they want to secure a bid, they will bid high. no difference then.

when the time comes and if i am ready to upgrade with cash. you think i will bother about all these? to secure my COE, i just throw it in. who cares you can afford or not. after all, i don't have time to monitor the bid anyway. save my trouble.

 

I did ask my affluent friends on this. They said they'll just whack high to get their COE at first bid, who cares about the rest. Not to mention they said they can use it as bragging rights on who paid more

[Elfenstar]

Objective achieved isn't it? Lao uncle is cash rich but do they NEED a car? So like I said half of the buyers will be "inconvenience" and less bidders to go in so eventually

 

supply = demand

 

COE is to control car population, and since only a fraction is going to have a car then why must it be a selected group? Now is so obvious that you are rich you can buy car cos the car price is so high.

 

But if self bid, the concept is not just rich people but those who really bothered and seriously consider their financial status and understand what they NEED and WANT

 

Well there is one problem. Nobody actually needs a car. It's basically who wants a car more, and for those cash rich uncle's, they'll probably be like my affluent friends and go "so mah fan ah? nevermind I can afford it so whack high high and no need to worry about another bidding"

[Elfenstar]

COE cannot be included in the loan good suggestion - then just enlighten me how to implement?

 

1. COE to be paid upfront to dealer or LTA? <-Paid to the dealer if they're bidding lah. Paid to LTA if you are

 

2. Who to do the bidding? Dealer or Buyer? <- Doesnt matter.

 

3. Who will decide how much to bid and stop? Dealer or buyer? <- buyer lah. Even now its the buyer that decides on what the max price is. The dealer only suggests.

4. Do buyer put a deposit for the bid? <- Since the deposit will be part of the actual COE, why not? They're paying upfront for it on our behalf now anyway. Bank pays them and lta, or person pays them and they pay LTA

5. If buyer unable to secure a COE, does he have to pay penalty to dealer? <- Depends. Again same as presently.

 

 

So self-bid will solve the 3 problems. <-None of these are problems at all.

 

[Elfenstar]

COE bidding system is lowest bid. He whack a price of 70K, while the majority is only say 20K. He would have overbid and not get the COE, isn't it?

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

He would get the COE and pay 20k if that was the lowest successful bid.

[Elfenstar]

All this sounds good and valid. BUT in reality, most people are too lazy to bid for themselves. They just want to buy package price.

 

Have you ever check why NATAS fair attracts all lot of customers?

 

It is not because it is cheap but rather Singaporeans prefer to pay a package price according to their budget. If the price is not right, they wait another day. Otherwise, they go for a lower package.

 

Welcome To Singapore.

 

Yup. For short trips I'm happy to do it all myself, but to do my 28day east coast, west coast and hawaii next year, I would have to book 5 flights and 8 hotels, plus tours, etc. so I just bought it at NATAS

[Elfenstar]

1. dealer price their car $150K (ie: estimated $75K COE). you walk in with your own coe (ie: bidded $75K), dealer say $85K-$90K for the car, take it or go fly kite. got to go, got other customers to serve.

 

2. how to outbid dealer when the bidding is not fair. buyer-vs-buyer bid is fair game. buyer-vs-dealer (a company with multi-millions financial support and huge profit margin to move) is suicidal

 

yes, there is an option which is "artificial". why do it when you know you are being kick out from the door before the game even start.

 

Still he's right. Nobody is stopping you. If you don't like the dealer price you can always self import.