Need frank advice / opinions

[Diver]

Hi,

 

I am not sure if everyone is supposed to have been migrated from Delphi Forum to here, but I just like to repost my query and hopefully get some useful feedback.

 

Personally, I am planning to book an Octavia 1.8T(M) in March. Frankly, I found the car value-for-money. However, I am a little concerned after reading all the not-so-pleasant opinions (READ: COMPLAINTS) about JTA posted by various people here.

 

Therefore, I was wondering if any any kind hearted souls can offer any frank comments / opinions? I am really fearful that I will encounter similar problems like those before me. Thanks much!

 

DLow18

[Blue850r]

Hello, I am keen to know why you think the Octavia is a value for money car. I had seen this car but not test driven. Seems to me, this car depn runs like 9K to 10K a year.

 

At today's market this depn can get you many other reliable cars. Perhaps you can enlighten me.

[Turbobrick]

Since you have not booked the Octavia U might want to seat out and wait a little while longer and see how JTA fairs in the next month or two.

 

Perhaps the Skoda owners here can enlighten U further.

[Diver]

Blue850r,

 

The reason why I felt its value for money is because there isn't a 2nd 1.8L car that can deliver 150hp and 210Nm torque at this price. If you look around, most other 1.8L cars like Rover 45 and Mitsubitshi Lancer are also priced in the same range, but they lacked power and torque. To me, driving is a privilege, thus I rather get a car and enjoy driving rather than one which just simply gets me places. An analagy is you can just get there OR you can get there and enjoy getting there! You decide.

 

I do agree with you that for the same depreciation I can get other more reliable cars, but the truth is I do not get the kick in driving them. My pockets are not deep, thus I have to settle for one that is both exciting to drive and within my means. Since you have not test driven it, you should really go try it first. I did not have high regard for this car till I test driven it myself. Hope this explains it!

 

DLow18

Edited February 14, 2002 by Dlow18

[Madarmour]

Dlow18

 

 

That's great man! Car's an expensive toy and I share your view too. Better to get one you enjoy driving! I think the Octavia is value for money too as you are actually getting a VW engine and floorpan under the hoods. JTA has a bit of problem now and like Turbobrick said, you may want to wait for a while first until you have a clearer picture of the outcome.

 

Cheers!

[Diver]

Yup, I have been playing the waiting game since Sept 2001. COE was kinda low then and JTA even offered a 5-year / 100,000km warranty. I gave all those a miss hoping that situation will improve, but no significant achievement so far. On the contrary, ST even published an article to say that they are in $$$ difficulties.

 

I don't mind waiting longer in times like these, but not sure how COEs will be priced when closed bidding ends in Mar. Kinda caught in a dilema now ... to buy or not to buy? and if so, WHEN?

 

When I visited JTA in Jan, they first told me that the next shipment is coming in beginning Mar. After further discussion, they told me its end Mar. The SE also could not confirm the amenities that will be in the next shipment. Seemingly, there are NO MORE Naka CD changer for Oct 1.8T. They will be factory fitted with Skoda CD changer. For good or bad I am not sure, that's why I am giving this shipment a miss to find out. Hopefully, the slow down after CNY will give them the breather they need to improve matters.

 

Cheers!

[Madarmour]

5 year/100K warranty?!!!! That's very good, man! I thought my steed's 3 year unlimited mileage warranty was unmatched! On hindsight, luckily my warranty's mileage is umlimited coz I'll be hitting the big 50K soon and my babe's only 20 month old!

 

The Naka HU is the last thing you should worry about! BTW, what's the price of the 1.8T now?

[Diver]

5-year/100km warranty was offered sometime in Oct last year. Its no longer available now. When I ask a SE about it, he said its already costed into the car price, which explains why a Classic was S$69,999 once upon a time and later became S$76,999. In this case, I rather forgo the extended warranty.

 

Its not that I am worried about the Naka HU, but even central locking and immobiliser cannot be confirmed. According to the SE, these are new additionals which will be fitted in cars in the March shipment, but somehow I was not convinced.

 

I may sound cheap, but if I were to spend S$111,999 on a car, I would want to know exactly what will be delivered and when. Others may not mind, but I damn well do. Then again, if others don't mind, we wouldn't have so many postings here would we?

[Myfocus]

My focus also comes with the same warranty 5year/100K, but if one reads carefully, it's not awarranty but a service agreement. Amongst other restrictions, it also binds you to servicing and repair only at the service agreement provider's facilities, in this case, the main Ford dealer which is Regent Motors. A warranty in legal terms is not the same warranty in layman terms :-)

 

Thinking about it, its a good way to turn a cost into a profitable cash flow. For example, my first servicing included oil change. The filter (after 20% discount) was $14.40. I was floored! The most I ever paid for a filter was $8.50 (I used to get my filters at $5 retail !).

 

Personally I would wait and see too. I used to say the engine, gearbox and transmission are paramount, all else is for comfort and thus secondary. Then the kids came along....

 

If the car is a pleasure to drive, the lack of conveniences such as central locking etc can be overlooked. What is more important in this case, is whether you arrive home each day with big grin.

 

If driving pleasure is a issue, try the Alfa 156 (yes, Mike, I tried it, and its a blast! But no money for now.....). Its about the same road tax anyway.

 

BTW, it's not cheap to wonder about the little conveniences when you're forming out $120K. Its called getting value for money. You're not alone nor wrong.

 

Gud luck.

[Diver]

Thanks for the 5-year/100km enlightenment.

 

I do know where you are coming from, esp when you are a family man. However, being single and free, I guess you understand where I am getting at too right? By getting a new car, I am hoping to do away with nitty gritty problems and fixing/replacing new features. Thus, kinda concern over what I am getting with my $$$.

 

On your recommendation of Alfa 156, I have tried that car but the Skoda 1.8T is still more roomy. The Alfa no doubt is more posh but the price tag of S$123,888 is too much for me now. To me, value for money = driving pleasure + within my means. I am not much of a dreamer for cars like 911T. I prefer to dream within my means. At least I get to achieve it and enjoy the satisfaction of driving my "dream" car.

[Myfocus]

Yes, every poor married man was once a rich bachelor.

 

I once used to maintain my cars, hence my shock at the repair costs. The focus is my first ever new car......

 

I used to drive without aircon, central lock etc. It was a good car (but grossly underrated by all), so cheap to own and run. Just ignore the snide remarks from the gold chain crowd.

 

As for parts that break, the first is to identify them and replace asap. Then stick to a religious preventive maint schedule. That way majority of repairs are anticipated and you get more driving pleasure.

 

As for size, I found the Octavia cabin size about the same as the Focus and the 156. Driving for all 3 are poles apart.

 

Best is to follow your heart, drive the car which gives you the most pleasure, not the one which others say you should get :-)

 

 

cheers

[Diver]

I have not test driven a Focus before, but will probably do it this weekend. Care to share a little bit about the differences you found in the 3 cars? What made you decide on the Focus?

 

I am definitely following my heart, which is why I am still here despite all the bad press about JTA. Much as I have decided on the Oct 1.8T emotionally, I am still open to options logically.

[Myfocus]

I have not test driven a Focus before, but will probably do it this weekend. Care to share a little bit about the differences you found in the 3 cars? What made you decide on the Focus?

 

I only drive the 156 recently, so that cannot count in my buying decision. However, here are my experiences. I only test drove 1.6 cars, stone me if i'm biased....

 

Octavia Classic. Grossly underpowered but 8v engine gives grunt at low rpm and traffic lite derby. harsh sound but can rev up to redline w/o strain (unlike the earlier laser which "buay tahan" after 5krpm). Suspension very soft, hit too many road bumps. 175/70 tyres start squealing before 40Kmph at PLA circus. local fitted power windows, unsightly with circular cover. Everything else is extra, so not as price attractive after all.

 

Octavia Ambiente. Better engine, muted growl at high rpm, same suspension, but 195/60 tyres are still ok up to 70kmph at PLA. Rusty door hinge, and a VW part too! $2K more for guaranteed COE, leather seats and change of wheel to alloy (same size). But at $12K more than the focus, hard to stomach. Competant engine, picks up well. Seems a bit nose heavy and wallows & dives on corners. Large boot as on classic a big hit.

 

Octavia Comfort. Nice, but a bit spartan for the price. Good engine performance and overall handling, but loses out (on reflection) to the 156.

 

Focus. large car, larger than sunny. decent boot but not as big as octavia. pickup slow but due to tall gearing. Note, at that time only auto was available. This is not a fair comparision since Itest drove manuals for both octavias. handling good, some lean and roll due to much taller body, but about same as the Octavia (surprising given the height!). Taller seating position, good for parents. 3-point seat belts even in rear - good.

Pricing was good, so bought it.

 

Now, if I had tried the 156, I would have bought it straight away over the others. Power not the fastest, I found the selespeed strange (upshift and downshift on the lever are counter-intuitive), but best handling and most neutral. Really a driver's car. I dun need too big a body since I am fortunate to run 2 cars (both of us in jobs where we need to run around), so prefer 2 small/mid size cars to 1 big car.

 

I should have taken the cue, back in Nov, even the sales man said that the 156 was a work of art. too late, they've raised the price.

 

Bottom line, I wanted a mid size 1.6 car with some space, fun to drive, decent handling and power (pickup, not top end). In the end, it's all a compromise. If $$$ were no problem, I _might_ have gotten the Octavia (but the omens were not good. on reflection, a good decision). The focus although lacking in the pickup compensated by the price (goodies, rebate etc).

 

Note that the pickup on the Focus can be improved by turning off overdrive.

 

I am definitely following my heart, which is why I am still here despite all the bad press about JTA. Much as I have decided on the Oct 1.8T emotionally, I am still open to options logically.

 

If you follow your heart, you would not look for logic, but would make your decision despite the logic :-)

[Diver]

I am definitely following my heart, which is why I am still here despite all the bad press about JTA. Much as I have decided on the Oct 1.8T emotionally, I am still open to options logically.

 

If you follow your heart, you would not look for logic, but would make your decision despite the logic :-)

 

[/reply]

 

Hey, you got a point there ... then again this is going to be my biggest gamble in life so far. I guess the heart is willing but the flesh is weak ... Emotion vs Logic!

 

Meanwhile, I am gonna hang on till March and see if there are any new developments. Like what DocDrake said, look out for their advertisements. Then again, from what I know about SPH, you can owe them for a while ... and that "while" is long enough for a biz to turn around and go under ... so quite scary too! Will probably pay them a visit again this weekend and get some updates.

[Madarmour]

 

 

Edited February 14, 2002 by Mikeckchong

[Madarmour]

MyFocus,

 

So you've finally tried the 156, eh? Quite addictive, right? Did you remember the automatic 'blip' when you downshift? Shiok! Can be a Schumi wannabe already!

[Folec]

for new cars, service backup is extremely importance, JTA failed this aspect. The few staffs in the Tuas workshop are very friendly but they lack the basic skill in diagnose even the simple mechanical problems. Well credit must be given to them for able to handle the routine maintenance tasks such as oil change, check tire pressure and perform tire rotation very well.

 

Spare parts back up is another important factors... you can make warranty claim using the advantage of 100k-km but they will tell you they don't have the parts for replacement and you have to wait long long....

[Fabiaman]

I think you can forget abt that 100,000km / 5 years warranty. Might as well ask them if they lose the distributorship within the 5 years , will the new distributor honour the warranty?

 

I am sceptical if they can pull through that long.

 

Its hard to predict how JTA will be like in the many weeks to come during your delivery period. You pay them the booking fee now and have bad nights over the weeks.

 

I understand your rationale for buying the 1.8T. BTW, what is the booking fee now for the Skoda? Any chance you can lower it to just $1k? That will minimise your risk tremendously.

 

I paid $15k to book my Fabia and realised the risk I was at last June/July. Posted a question in Skoda forum in Delphi then and read the last posting... I repost here - note the comments in Green. Obviously a JTA-man talking!

 

_________________________________________________________________

 

How big is JTA?

 

From: ALANGOH 5/30/01 10:39 am

To: ALL (1 of 4)

 

 

Just wondering how big is JTA as a company?

Will they be around for a long long time? I have a friend who also wanted to book the Octavia but was afraid to put in the booking becoz he fears a repeat of what happened to KIA & AutoAsia.... ie. they close down and run away.

 

 

From: Skoda Man (DAZZY11) 5/30/01 10:47 am

To: ALANGOH (2 of 4)

51.2 in reply to 51.1

 

Have no idea really. Not too worry, even Merc can take away the distribution rights from C&C so there is no sure thing.

Main thing is that we have to know where to service and repair our car (touch wood), even if JTA gave way.

 

What is feel is that since their sales is picking up, they will stay around for a while at least.

 

 

From: ALANGOH 5/30/01 11:11 am

To: Skoda Man (DAZZY11) (3 of 4)

51.3 in reply to 51.2

 

Tks.

Heard the Lim family is quite rich, but dunno how rich?

 

 

From: PRAUNNY 5/31/01 12:13 am

To: ALANGOH (4 of 4)

51.4 in reply to 51.1

 

Don't worry. You will not loose your money! Hell... I placed my money with them for one whole year before I picked up my Octavia. I had initially booked the pre-facelift Octavia; then I realised there was gonna be a facelift. So I decided to go for the facelifted version. JTA also owns the Budget car rental franchise in Singapore. No worries.