Help with setup :-)

[Darkness]

Me on OEM HU (Renault Megane - VDO Tuner List HU). Currently have the following simple setup:

 

Front: JBL GTO 6506 2 way components

Rear: Stock Blankpunt paper speakers

Amp: JBL CS 50.4 (4 channel and 50w each powering the front speakers and sub)

Bass: 1 x Cervin Vega HED 12"

 

Plans for the near future:

----------------------------

1.Add a mono block (installer said i could get a JBL 200.1 (300 rms)) to power the sub. Thus also increase the overall power to each front speaker from 50w to 100w. But the rms for the 6506 is only 70w not sure will i end up blowing my speakers :lol:

 

2.Add a pre amp to tune the system (since the oem HU like not much tuning capability and i do not wish to change the HU)

 

Aniway....today went to look ard / learn more at Sim Lim Tower...

So the questions are:

============================================================================

 

Query 1:

One shop guy said that for my CV sub i no need to use mono block instead replace my current jbl amp with a single 4 channel blitz amp. The RMS of the Blitz if i not wrong is 150 per channel i think.

 

He said cause the CV i have is normal one so no need to have mono amp :? ok but like that after i use 2 blitz channel for sub the rms is back to 300v same as a mono block wat :?:

 

He carries the jbl amp that i want and the blitz amp also. The price also almost the same. Why do u think he said this "advise" to me? There seems to be nothing for him to gain by lying to me. Also since both amp same price either way he will make $$$. hummmm...Any bro here know why he might have said that and is blitz really that good?

 

Query 2:

Since i am on stock HU tot of adding a preamp so as to tweak the system to optimum.

(integrated HU so if i change new one lots of my steering control etc will be messed up so want to keep it as it is)

 

Now saw two brands thats not too ex and also not too bad in terms of functions (both are 5 band) alphasonic (salesman said this is the 2005 model - silver face), PPI (PAR 650)

 

ani idea which is a better preamp? - both have almost the same features

 

Query 3:

should i:

a) add a preamp -> tune -> happy -> enjoy the music

b) add a preamp -> tune -> NOT happy -> add AMP -> tune -> enjoy the music

c) add a AMP -> tune -> happy -> enjoy the music

d) add a AMP -> tune -> NOT happy -> add Preamp -> tune -> enjoy the music

e) add preamp and additional amp -> tune -> happy -> enjoy the music

 

with the assumption that all of this will lead to better (hopefully not worse) music

 

option e) might help me get lower installation charges but of cse the rest will save me $$$ on the Hardware

 

Thanks...sorry so many questions

Edited December 12, 2005 by Darkness

[Darkness]

anyone?

[Xiaogary]

My attempt to answer ur doubts with my limited experience in ICE. Filter yourself choose to believe or not...

 

Answer 1: I suggest u dont take Blitz. Take JBL. Some brands are not real rms value, so 150w may not be 150w rms, may be peak only. U also need to see its rms into how many ohm. If its into 2 ohm or 1 ohm, also no use. Becos ur connection should be into 4 ohm since your speaker 6506 is 4ohm. I believe JBL 6506 is 70w rms and 280w (not too sure the exact for peak) max. Therefore, dont worry, u can power it at 100w, or 150w. Just make sure dont exceed 280w. But usually sometimes u exeed a bit also never mind, bcos they normally have QA, their specs states from 70w rms to 280w peak, that means it can tahan at least up to 280w, sometime maybe if lucky can get one which can tahan more maybe 300w. I suggest u power it at 100w/125w/150w rms per channel to maximise the potential of the speakers. Dont waste it by underpowering it, the bass can be much better than what u have now.

 

The only reason why he may ask u to buy blitz is bcos blitz he can earn more money, maybe profit margin is higher. I dont see how blitz is better. In fact, I feel JBL is better. Blitz seems more for those who goes for the looks bcos it comes with leds or neon lights.

 

Since both same price, I think get JBL better. But how many rms u need to support ur 12 inch? If u trust me, get audiobank M5(350w rms into 4 ohm) or M7(much larger rms, forgot already), no regrets confirm. The bass u can get is confirm good, dont need capacitor.

 

Answer 2:

 

I feel that 5 band is too limited. try to get 7 band at least with subwoofer control (gain and crossover). I got Cadence CEQ770, but the 7 band left/rightis fixed not adjustable, now got new model duno call CEQ870 or wat, can adjust the 7 band left and right slightly beside the gain. It only cost me $150+ for a brand new one.

 

Answer 3:

 

My choice is d. Get a amp first, if not happy after playing with the crossover there and bass control, than get a preamp. Advantage of a preamp is that u can fine tune your speakers to ur liking and also have immediate bass control in front din. So that when u have passenger, u can tune down the bass easily, when without passenger, u can tune it up again. Very accessible rather than going into HU, and press so many button or only adjust the bass gain with the gain control knob which usually comes with monoblock amp (Mine have one). With preamp, u can set the hardness of the bass by controlling the crossover frequency and gain, so that listening to vocal, u can set crossover to lower abt 80Hz and gain lower. LIstening to techno, u can let the bass handle up to 125Hz mid bass and gain up a bit. In summary, a preamp enable u more control and accessibility, I would be very lost without a preamp. But now I running 3 way setup and my preamp is only connected to my sub only, my front speaker only controlled by HU eq and crossover.

 

Option e is too costly, unless u one time got a lot of money to throw in or else if not needed u will waste. But if dont want, throw to me. I want. Preamp install is very easy, I can teach u.

Edited December 13, 2005 by Xiaogary

[Headshok]

right on bro!!!

 

agreed, the cadence pre amp looks pretty good (this is a good alternative if u don wanna get a new HU), cheap and good.

 

but first, just lup the amp in for ur sub, then bridge ur 4 channel blankput to the front, use HU to power rear, then listen soong soong.. but if not soong enough, then invest in preamp..

 

at least, with the monoblk, in future if u wanna upgrade sub, u'll have a bit more head room for the power..

 

go for the JBL monoblk. as for blitz, there's another forum guy usin it here, u do a search.. nice neon lights on amp.

 

also, if it can save u money, take the monoblk (if its cheaper)

cos if lets say, the monoblk is cheaper, the can get it, then use ur current blunkput to power the speakers, then mono to pwoer sub. if u get 4 channel, then ur blunkput amp wasted.. hehe..

 

or best.. u come down meetup, we discuss abt it lah...

 

 

cheers..

Edited December 14, 2005 by Headshok

[Darkness]

thanks man for ur advise

 

really appreciate it.

 

will look into the candance preamp seems better and cheaper than PPI or alpasonic based on ur description

[Darkness]

hi thanks...

 

actually using JBL amp currently...not blankput

 

btw is there a meet tonight? wat is the earliest time ppl will be there huh?

[Headshok]

u drop by at 9pm lah. i'll try to make it early, wanna do up my amp rack and capacitors after work..

 

look for the nasi padang stall.. the owner of the stall is the host..

 

cheers!

[Darkness]

okie see u there...i have ur HP num so if lost i will call u k?

 

hee hee

[Headshok]

u got my number ah? aiyoh.. i duno u leh. u stalker ah? hahahahaha

 

aiyah. just kiddin.. come lah.. we'll talk lah

 

cheers!

[Xiaogary]

Nice meeting u. Hope I gave u some idea on what is the next step to upgrade ur system.

 

Get Cadence preamp, confirm no regrets....

[Darkness]

hey nice meeting u too

 

yup thanks for the insight into tuning...

 

cheers

[Xiaogary]

my info may not be 100% correct,so do filter off urself.

 

But one info I told u confirm correct. "DIY is the best", let people do, they will not put in 100% effort even if they are well known installer who won numerous awards and u pay them a lot of $ (becos urs is not their competition car). Of course there may be one or two good one lying around who put in 100% effort to install ICE in your car, but these guys with passion in doing ICE usually survive without advertisement. Good things passes by words of mouth, not forum(may be faked, reccomend due to commision or they are boss themself) and not magazine.

 

I do know one of them who dont advertise, they are owned by Singapore old uncle boss who is in this industry for 30-40 years and the 2 ICE installer are ICE enthusiast who are super passionate and always put in 99.999 if not 100% effort to install. I also learn my skills from them (not all installer willing to teach u, they are so passionate they cant stop talking or share knowledge abt it).

 

So best is read up more, dig up all the old relevant threads and learn. Burn some fuses and u will gain a lot of knowledge. Visiting those old birds at ICE meetup is one short cut to save your precious fuses.

 

Hope to hear from u your upgrades...and spend $ wisely. Dont get chopped by those merciless installer out there.

[Darkness]

Yup u are so correct abt the passion part. I think no installer no matter how good he maybe will not put in his 100% since it is not "his" car.

 

DIY is the best but for now atleast i will first play around with the knobs on the amp etc before trying more "dangerous stuff" like rewiring etc

 

So happy...finally figured out the freq ranges of the low mid and high respectively (thanks to ur explanation and Leo's input) Will be doing some tweaking soon

[Darkness]

Thanks for helping to "initiate" me into the crowd

 

nice work with the caps and boy those are huge power cables

 

Cheers mate

 

btw i made a mistake on the amp rating for jbl cs200.1....should be as follows:

 

 

[Darkness]

Hi to everyone at the meetup...

 

saw several of the in house ICE gurus I think i did not catch all the

names - nick relationship correctly so if i ask u again at the next meet don't me ... lol

 

nice meeting everyone and getting to listen to their rides...u all made me feel so welcomed. Hope to join u all again soon

[Xiaogary]

Think somebody kana poison already...haha.

[Darkness]

[Darkness]

any idea wat new monoblock amp i can get within $300.

(running at 4 ohm at or above 300rms)

 

Need to know so that i can get a rough estimate/idea as to which monoblock to commit on. Have the jbl cs 200.1 in mind but at ard $250 it has only abt 236rms at 4ohms. Seems like it might be slightly too little for my current sub

 

thanks all

Edited December 18, 2005 by Darkness