A4 1.8t or IS250 or c180

[Walterkoh]

hi all,

i find it strange when u r comparing cars >120k, u worried abt road tax? diff btwn c180 n is250 is abt 800 per yr only, no big deal in this category.

my 2 cents worth opinion:

is 250 is the best here, new model, smooth v6 engine, fc not bad, rwd, lexus is known for its reliability

c180 is outdated, ah pek feel, compromise as seen as a merc wannabe, merc minimium is e class to me. if mod to higher power, also can mod is250 to higher power, so compare stock level, not mod

a4 1.8t is best power here in terms of drivability cos of the t. real conti feel, nice car tho resale not as good as the other 2.

 

my verdict, take is250 for its reliability n being a new model very chio

 

cheers

[W210k]

Oh to be fair to Audi, my comments on the CVT-only option applies to the Singapore distributor (Premium Automobile) only.

 

Audi and VAG actually produce car models with every conceivable engine and transmission type combination.

 

In Europe, one can choose from a Manual tranny, Tiptronic Auto, DSG 'clutchless manual' which is actually dual-clutched (confusing eh?) and of course, its very noisy (at high RPMs) and monotonously-boring MMT (CVT) - albeit more-efficient, lower-cost and space-saving ... and all the yadah-yadah sales positioning.

Edited October 25, 2006 by W210k

[Jolie888]

For me, the answer is obvious: Lexus IS250 - if all 3 cars are assumed at the same price point.

 

I will definitely go for the 6-cylinder 24v engine. Whether IL-6 or V6 ... or Flat-6 .

[The_richter]

At the end of the day, whether paying $800 difference is strange or not depends on the owner.

 

To me, Lexus is the true wannabe with no identity. Its just a car which tries to benchmark the best in each segment and then used Toyota's/ Japanese superior manufacturing processes to build another car more efficiently. And then load it up with gadgets Other than this, its got no heritage nor soul. Might as well buy a Sony LCD V Series TV to enjoy jap efficiency.

 

When it comes to buying car at this premium segment, I want to feel good about the brand. And lexus just aint there yet. It is trying to reach, but as long as the philosophy is to copy the best (eg the 3 series vs the IS200, GS300 vs E Class, LS400 vs the S Class), it will always to labeled as wanabe. That's the truth and to all the lexus fans, truth hurts. High gadget counts doesnt matter to me. I want to be connected to the car, the brand and the whole philosophy of owing and driving the car. Thus heritage and soul comes into play. Not some highly efficient car that gets me from pt A-B, that I might as well get the Altis or Camry and use the loose change get myself a tourbillion mechanical watch.

 

You guys who support Lexus and buys a Lexus, really should just get a Toyota. And I applaud the Marketing guys in Toyota for successfully `conning' u guys into believing that u are really buying a premium car. And I also salute those who drive a harrier/mark X and Prado for they are really paying for something that is worth it.

 

To put it bluntly, u guys do not understand true car driving and ownership if you're getting a Lexus.

[Felipe]

u hit the near on the coffin. but not everyone believes in 'a driving experience / ownership'

 

for lexus buyers, its possibly status, reliability and fuss free. for merc, status and to some extent, heritage. same goes for audi.

 

but seriously, how can anybody compare the emotion of a lexus to merc or audi. Merc, such a long history in motor racing and its hard not to feel attached to the brand.

 

Audi, started out as a racing company. u def got to feel for this one.

 

Lexus, er....luxury, comfort. will it be a classic in ten years? will it go down in motoring journals as the car that defined motoring the way the alfas, merc, audis did? after more than 10 years on this planet, i dont see motoring journals looking at lexus this way. as i said from the start...depends on what u want.

[Redboy]

seems that u are anti-lexus. Well, everyone has his/her own views.

Just that I feel u are implying that lexus has no good points.

IMHO, I feel lexus is more value-for-money. Lexus strengths lies in its really quiet ride, comfort, executive high-class looks(not ah beng or racer), world-class car audio & bomb-proof reliability. Though lexus is not a driver's car in the same way as toyota, I feel one cannot really exploit a car's driving characteristic in SG. There are simply too many stop-start, speed limits etc.

Then again, in terms of power,lexus will not lose much to bmw, merc etc.

So the wise economical decision is still lexus. think of which ride LKY takes..

[Dlar2]

Hi all, I am wondering which of these sedan you would choose?

They are all priced 126k to 135k.

I was thinking to add bmw323 but it cost about 148k.

Both a4 and c180 are force induction. They are moddable to 200 bhp quite cheaply.

Omv are...

A4 40k, IS 35k and c180 39k.

Annual deprec is about 10.5k.

 

Take Benz.

A4 CVT

IS250 might as well buy Mark X at less than 90k, why pay more? , paying more for sound insulation and cosmetic?

 

How about 159 as one bro here mentioned? Or Volvo?

Edited October 25, 2006 by Dlar2

[Dutch]

Never really like volvo, I think their styling don't really suit me. I did try the s40, nice ride but will not buy it.

159? Will not be going back to alfa so soon. Me driving a 147 now. Don't get me wrong, alfa has wonderful cars. Their handling is world class. But not this time round. Bera, is beautiful... Be too ex. I got burn by my alfa...practically no resale value. EA please do something about it!

[Dutch]

My sentiment is similar to yours. Before this posting, I prefer a4 but now it looks like I am going back to the drawing board and kiv my purchase until a more complete car is available within my budget. I still have about a year more to make my purchase, just that I wanted to take advantage of the low coe.

I hope the next model will have a dsg or s tronic gear box and better weight distribution. Is it due in 2007?

IS looks like the better car between the 3. But I can't get over when I know it is an mark x in another shell. Sharing the same engine and transmission. But again vw cars are the same. We can get a 1.8t engine in sokda, vw or seat.

Lastly c180, the power is not there, the model is changing very soon. Most bugs are iron out but they did add a couple of things in the 2006 model eg. 'Active steering'.

 

I must say this is the best things about this forum, you get good advices before making an important and expensive decision.

[Tashi]

hi bro

My humble thoughts are what I genuinely and personally subscribe to. The wonderful thing about a forum is its diversity of views. If you sieve through and get past the emotive parts, and distill just the bare essentials and lowest denominators, you should be able to form a collective and holistic view. But that still does NOT and should not distract you from your own personal preferences and studied knowledge. Like many bros said and I concur, the car is an expensive item to buy in SG, so choose wisely, and dedicate a small part to follow your heart (you gotta love the car at the end), and then commit to it.

 

At the end, look beneath the logo and the shell, and go for what really fascinates and excites you. Nothing beats a fiesty test drive too, and do it as often as you need to, and don't bother with sales tactics or pressures, just focus on the drive.

 

keep blessed, happy shopping!

tashi

[Cool_jazz]

Hi all, I am wondering which of these sedan you would choose?

They are all priced 126k to 135k.

I was thinking to add bmw323 but it cost about 148k.

Both a4 and c180 are force induction. They are moddable to 200 bhp quite cheaply.

Omv are...

A4 40k, IS 35k and c180 39k.

Annual deprec is about 10.5k.

 

Hello Dutch,

 

You still can't decide on your next car?

Just remember..... whatever opinions you get here are just that, opinions.

You will be the one: [ol] [*]paying the $$, [*]driving, [*]maintaining, and [*]looking at it every single day till you sell/scrape it. [/ol]

So weigh all options carefully and most importantly, go for as many test drive as you like. Don't need to 'paiseh' one.

 

 

Cheers dude.

 

Cool_jazz

[Cool_jazz]

Actually there really isnt a PERFECT for ANY price range if u ask me... all cars have their own compromises (even mighty supercars), its whether u can accept it and love it for wat it is...

 

in any case, emphasis on FWD vs RWD for wat are basically mass production saloon road cars (READ: NOT SPORTS CARS) really misses the point... one thing for sure i seldom see C-class or IS owners power sliding all over the shop on public roads or egging others to race etc no need to mention that u usually can count on 1 hand how many basic Merc C-classes or IS or A4s for tat matter at open track days...

 

in other words, such owners seldom or never push their cars to somewhere even near the cars limit to be able to say that the handling is superb/average/bad etc...

 

That being said, "sporty" FWD cars if set up properly can slay giants in terms of handling. ALso the transmission loss is much less than RWD cars, so if u really must see if from a BHP/Torque point of view, having a 200bhp FWD is actually the equivalent of say a 250bhp RWD car...

 

IMO FWD cars are OFTEN more "predictable" to handle for us mere driving mortals... vs a RWD if u start to oversteer + kancheong spider = alamak ...regardless, one thing to note however its often the driver and not the car's fault.

 

in any case, even making a case for FWD cars, it is still IMO that the 1.8T in the A4 sucks big time... sorry to say that! Big applause to its modability etc, but try pointing and clicking when doing overtaking on the highway and u realise that the turbo lag is ridiculous... u step on the accelerator and nothing happens for that second or two, by then ur opportunity to cut out safely has already passed.

 

compared to the BIG NA engine feel of Saab 2.0T and the Volvo 2.5T (the saab giving the smoothest power delivery at speed)... the Audi 1.8T in stock form really sux for me. i can only assume if u chip the 1,8T to 200+ bhp without changing anything else, it will only make the lag more pronounced..

 

anyways, i cannot accept the fact that AUdi selling at sky high prices here still dare bring in the NEW A4 body with ye olde 1.8T engine... basket... definitely not for me.

 

only praise i can level on the A4 is the rock solid build quality & no nonsense interior.

 

if i had to choose between the 3 here, i'd go for the IS250... good quality, ok price now, and easier to sell of later since its the new IS. BESIDES, U CAN NEVER GO WRONG WITH A TOYOTA!!

 

happy shopping!

 

Well said and I agree with you.

Although a RWD may give you more fun round the corners, possibly with a higher limit of lateral G, it demands more respect and not many people will even see the limit of a FWD let alone a RWD. At the limits, a FWD is easier to handle for car enthusiasts like us. A RWD tends to drift/fishtail if not shown the proper respect. A FWD..... understeers but lift off gently and the front end will bite.

[Cool_jazz]

At least, driving an Alfa will not give ple the impression you're trying so hard to be different,............

 

A new and interesting angle

Saab would be in the same category as Alfa, IMHO. Sort of anti-establishment.

Edited October 25, 2006 by Cool_jazz

[Vblaster_w211]

You can wait? Then wait for the new C Class, due end 2007, and may be avail early 2008.

[Firehorse]

My sentiment is similar to yours. Before this posting, I prefer a4 but now it looks like I am going back to the drawing board and kiv my purchase until a more complete car is available within my budget. I still have about a year more to make my purchase, just that I wanted to take advantage of the low coe.

I hope the next model will have a dsg or s tronic gear box and better weight distribution. Is it due in 2007?

....................................................

....................................................

I must say this is the best things about this forum, you get good advices before making an important and expensive decision.

 

hi Dutch,

i have driven a 1.8t A4 chip up to 205 horse (not my ride).

i must say it is very smooth in overtaking, step and the response is immediate.

zip in out effortlessly.

the agent service is good, but the selling price is on the high side.

however, it is good to take as much time as you need to commit into buying.

 

regards

[Astrid]

Let me try to put a bit of structure in giving point scores to the overall weightage in helping make the selection.

 

Qualifier: All ranking is based on my personal opinion only.

1 = Tops, 2 = Middle, 3 = Bottom (thus Lowest score wins)

 

In alphabetical order: Audi A4, Lexus IS250 and Merc C180

 

Styling: 2,1,3

Body Rigidity: 1,3,2

Interior Styling: 1,2,3

Interior Build / Quality: 1,3,2

Engine: 3,1,2 (IS250 is the only 6-pot here)

Transmission: 3,1,2 (IS250 is the only 6-speed here)

Drive train: 3,1,2 (A4 is the only FF here)

BHP: 2,1,3

0-100: 2,1,3

Handling: 3,1,2 (based on my test drives of each model)

Cool factor: 2,1,3

NVH: 3,1,2

Reliability: 2,1,3 (owned an Audi, Lexus and Merc before)

Workshop/Service: 2,1,3 (I owned all 3 brands before, but not the specific models)

Prestige: 2,3,1 (based on public perception, I think)

 

Overall Score:

Audi A4 = 32

Lexus IS250 = 22

Merc C180 = 36

 

And the winner is: Lexus IS250.

Edited October 26, 2006 by Astrid

[Jolie888]

It appears that you are anti-Lexus, but that's OK, since Lexus has been the top selling brand in the USA for the last 5 consequtive years. It will be too in Europe and Asia, as it is fast catching up on sales.

 

On reliability and car ownership satisfaction, it has been in the top 3 of the JD Powers' listing for the last 3 consequtive years - especially the IS.

 

The fact is, Lexus cars have better NVH and engine refinement than any BMW, Merc or Audi at the same price point.

Lexus engines are also more powerful (both BHP, Torque and 0-100 rating) than any naturally-aspirated BMW, Merc or Audi at every price point.

Lexus cars are more reliable than any BMW, Merc or Audi at ANY price point.

 

Especially at the entry level, the IS250 has 2 more cylinders and 8 more valves (4 more vs the 20v A4) than the 320i, C180 or A4.

 

And especially for the IS250, it handles better and can outsprint the 3-er, C-Class and A4 at the same price point.

 

To compare with the IS250's performance, one needs to look at the 325i but then, that's $50K more expensive. The 323i at 177 BHP will just smell the IS250's exhaust! Don't even bother to bring in the lethargic, gruff and noisy 320i!

 

So you bet there will be a lot more thinking people who will spend their hard-earned money on an IS250 to get the handling, performance, refinement and reliability that they deserve and insist.

 

Those are the hard facts faced by the buying public at large.

Sadly, the truth hurts for people like you. I can understand why you are reacting like such

Edited October 26, 2006 by Jolie888

[B777jubilee]

Ha Ha

 

Agree wholeheartedly. Used to own a 318i and comes with lots of problems. While handling is good and more fun to drive, it is not miles ahead of IS250. IS250 pales marginally in this aspect. But reliability is miles ahead of beemer.

 

Plus for the price of 318, I can get a 2.5l V6 equipped with Mark Levinson and a host of other features not even found in the 5 Series.

 

Switched to Lexus recently and never regret the decision. At least I know the car won't breakdown on me in the middle of nowhere....... I have seen countless Beemers breakdown on the road (incl mine) but couldn't recall seeing any lexus breakdown.

 

For me at least, no more Beemer, Lexus is the smart way to luxury motoring.