E90 facelift

[Coolad]

It depends how you define "same"... same shape? same model? so to some even 335i is the same to a 320i... true true... but i wouldn;t consider them car enthusiastics...

 

Accord and Camry 2.0 vs 2.4 is not a fair comparison... they are still 4potters with only higher capacity...

 

Problem is PML packaged higher models with alot more options (found out from the SE)... 325i comes std with i-drive (10K option liao), sports steering, electric roller blinds, 17inch sports rims... one can argue that these are not "essentials" but it does add up the cost of the car... coupled with that high spec in-line 6 motor... its is a very different car althogether... the dash board alone is already so different due to the i-drive interface... 320i's dash board looks plain and bare...

 

A 1.5yr old 325i cost the same as a brand-new 320i...

 

Just my own humble opinion

[Viceroymenthol]

Maybe Toyota Camry is not a fair comparison. But check out the Mercedes from Cycle& Carriage.

 

C200 Kompressor (A) $154,888 1.8 litre supercharged inline 4

Power 184 bhp

Torque 250 Nm

Acceleration 8.8s (0-100kmh)

 

C230 (A) $176,888 2.5 litre normally-aspirated V6

Power 204 bhp

Torque 245 Nm

Acceleration 8.6s (0-100kmh)

 

Not sure if the C230 has the 7G-tronic gearbox, which does help a lot in acceleration times, or maybe SGcarmart got their stats wrong, ie:- look at the E230 acceleration stats below with same engine and heavier body.

 

Difference is $22,000, not cheap but half of the price difference between 320i and 325i.

 

Assuming it is a typo on SGcarmart's part and the C230's performance is actually 2 seconds faster than the C200k as per the comparison between E200K and E230, it would be a sweet deal.

 

 

For the E class, the higher spec version costs only a little more:

 

E200 K New Generation Avantgarde (A) $181,888 1.8 litre supercharged inline 4

Power 184 bhp

Torque 250 Nm

Acceleration 9.4s (0-100kmh)

 

E230 New Generation Avantgarde (A) $193,888 2.5 litre normally aspirated V6

Power 204 bhp

Torque 245 Nm

Acceleration 7.3s (0-100kmh)

7 g-tronic gearbox

 

Difference is a mere $12,000 for a whopping 2 second faster acceleration plus a superior engine and gearbox. If I were in the market for E class, I would definitely choose the E230 over the E200k.

 

So how does PML justify the huge price difference between 320i and 325i?

 

The 320i and 323i comparison is out because it is the 325i that has the 2 second 0-100kmh acceleration advantage over the 320i. 323i is just a detuned 325i.

[Coolad]

You just re-emphasized my point...

 

i only got to know from the SE during the test-drive, that the 325i other than the better engine had many other more options standard...(see my earlier post)

 

if you were to take away all these options... you could easily minus off 20K from the price tag... but too bad... PML wants to package it this way.... so the price diff is actually much lesser

 

In short, the 320i is so stripped down and the 325i is so full spec... not including the engine diff that caused the substantial price gap

[Miles]

Actually if you compare the C with the 3, the positioning are,

 

320i $139.8k vs C180 $139.8k

150bhp/200Nm/9.8sec vs 156bhp/230Nm/9.9sec

OMV $43.2k vs $36.8k

 

323i $158.8k vs C200 $155k

177bhp/230Nm/8.8sec vs 184bhp/250Nm/8.8sec

OMV $50.1k vs $45.9k

 

325i $178.8k vs C230 $177k

218bhp/250Nm/7.7sec vs 204bhp/245Nm/8.6sec

OMV $51.4k vs $49.8k

 

Spec wise, both are quite on par, but BMW has higher OMV. Despite BMWs are from South Africa and Mercs are from Stuttgart.

 

Actual buying experience tells me, PML is more willing to negotiate on price whereas C&C prefers to stick to the price (but not totally non negotiable), and throw in options as long as you ask for it.

Which explains why there are more 3 on the road than C... because most people (who are stretching to make it) prefers cash discount upfront than paying full price with more options.

[Nullifi3d]

Like previous 3 series generations just wait for a mid-life full facelift and they'll probably introduce the 2.2L IL6 engine for the 3 series, only then it would be sensible to get a 320i. For now, the 323i is probably the reasonable choice; even so you feel cheated because its a detuned engine from the 325i... etc etc etc it has been discussed many times blah blah blah.

[Miles]

i dont think they'll resurrect the IL6 2.2.

 

For the anticipated facelift (coming in Sept), they'll probably revise the 4pot 2L to tuned up to 163bhp (120kW, up from current 110kW ... to equal the C180K) or even 170bhp (as found in the 120i), maybe put in stop/start technology for auto trans, and brake regenerative power ... for green emission and lower FC.

[inlinesix]

Current 2L 4 pot found in 120 is 170hp. Start/stop 4 auto is a little bit difficult unless BMW expect owner 2 shift 2 Neutral everytime stop @ traffic lite.

 

Anyway, IL-6 is still d sweetest.

[Miles]

well, if Opel can do it (start/stop for their auto trans), mighty BMW sure can do it as well.

Anyway, new HCCI engine (Merc speak Diesotto) is around the corner very soon. This will reduce emission and consumption significantly (like turbo diesel do), yet increase power.

 

IL6 2.5L turbo charged HCCI engine with dual clutch auto trans could be dream not far away.

[Eyke]

C-Class has been out-selling 3-Series by a few times since it's launch.

[Miles]

really?

i think the C class sales is slowing down. Otherwise C&C wouldnt reduce the price of the C80 and C200. And their 1st 2 shipments were sold out, but 3rd shipment still have ex stock.

 

Anyway, 3 series is facing fierce competition from C class, IS250 and the new A4. Especially from IS250. PML needs the facelifted 3 series to arrive badly.

[Vino]

Any idea how much is the C180 and 320 now?

[Eyke]

special guaranteed COE promo prices:

 

C180K $136K

C200K $151K

[Check13]

For 320 and from what i know,

 

basic omv 40k going for about 120k

pro omv 43.5k going for about 128k

highline omv 44.5k going for about 132k

 

facelift coming near end of the yr so you may want to wait if not urgent. But prices may not be as attractive as now.

[Check13]

320i is 156bhp/210Nm/9.7s

 

Actually if you compare the C with the 3, the positioning are,

 

320i $139.8k vs C180 $139.8k

150bhp/200Nm/9.8sec vs 156bhp/230Nm/9.9sec

OMV $43.2k vs $36.8k

 

323i $158.8k vs C200 $155k

177bhp/230Nm/8.8sec vs 184bhp/250Nm/8.8sec

OMV $50.1k vs $45.9k

 

325i $178.8k vs C230 $177k

218bhp/250Nm/7.7sec vs 204bhp/245Nm/8.6sec

OMV $51.4k vs $49.8k

 

Spec wise, both are quite on par, but BMW has higher OMV. Despite BMWs are from South Africa and Mercs are from Stuttgart.

 

Actual buying experience tells me, PML is more willing to negotiate on price whereas C&C prefers to stick to the price (but not totally non negotiable), and throw in options as long as you ask for it.

Which explains why there are more 3 on the road than C... because most people (who are stretching to make it) prefers cash discount upfront than paying full price with more options.

[Miles]

Have they brought in the 520i spec i4 2.0L valvetronic in 320i already? ... wow. I thought its still the 150PS/200Nm unit.

 

but really... $120k for OMV of 40k is very very good price for the base 320i. The biggest problem of the 3 to me is its high success... too many of it on the road to make it special, much less exclusive. I think the A4 and C class is more exclusive.

[Check13]

Depends on what a person is looking for i guess. Whether it's value for money or whether it's exclusitivity you're looking at. However, "exclusitivity" can cut both ways.

 

Tell your friends you bought an Audi and they go "oh ok..."

Tell your friends you bought a BMW and they go "Wah..."

Tell your friends you bought a Merc and they go "Wah!"

 

Having said that, never buy a car based on what others think. It's your money and your decision. Nobody else has any right to say it's right or wrong.

[Yaloryalor]

If dun talk about technology jus the branding:

 

I think Merc is jus like Rolex watch. Everyone all know well this brand and the owner can be somebody up there or some rich uncle. I mean everyone can appreciate this brand (Merc/ Rolex) and its a well known expensive car/ watch with good resale values.

 

For Audi, think not all know how to appreciate. May be only more executives class will buy this brand?

 

BMW to me is 50% Merc and 50% Audi.

 

Jus IMO.

[Miles]

i guess that's the perception here.

 

in Europe. The perception is Merc is like our Toyota/Lexus here. BMW is like Honda. Audi is like Nissan.